Flying an airliner manually!
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Flying an airliner manually!
There have been alot of accidents due to incapability of the aircrew to fly the aircraft when auto-pilot had tripped or put off deliberately. Are there any regulations that direct to fly manually to avoid getting rusty? and any airlines doing this?
Could it be a curious quasi-paradox where those airlines that prohibit such practices due to the danger posed by the crews' lack of such skills are those airlines with pilots that need all the manual flying they can get?
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There is probably some truth in that.
Here is what my company says under the section Autopilot / Autothrottle Policy:
It goes on to say that it should be briefed and preferrably done in low traffic situations.
In the real world there is a mixture of pilots, some like to fly from 400ft AGL til 500ft AGL on automatics and get quite nervous when they're close to their next sim check, some like to fly manually until cruise altitude and do it without flight director every flight. Most of us like to do visual approaches whenever possible, not only because it saves quite a bit of time and fuel, but mostly because it is a lot of fun. Many do flight director off approaches quite regular and in general the manual handling skills are not that bad. However it is quite different on the airbus fleet where flight director off approaches are pretty much unheard off.
Here is what my company says under the section Autopilot / Autothrottle Policy:
Continuous use of automatic system leads to loss of basic knowledge of power settings/pitch attitudes and reduces the ability to fly accurately with a low workload. Pilots should therefore regularly fly the aircraft manually, with emphasis on manual departures/approaches with and without the flight director.
In the real world there is a mixture of pilots, some like to fly from 400ft AGL til 500ft AGL on automatics and get quite nervous when they're close to their next sim check, some like to fly manually until cruise altitude and do it without flight director every flight. Most of us like to do visual approaches whenever possible, not only because it saves quite a bit of time and fuel, but mostly because it is a lot of fun. Many do flight director off approaches quite regular and in general the manual handling skills are not that bad. However it is quite different on the airbus fleet where flight director off approaches are pretty much unheard off.
We encourage visuals and as much flight director off manual flying as people want within certain limits. One limit is that the reporting system is triggered by autopilot off above 10,000 feet, when frankly the usual reason is an RA and the handling benefit in normal flight anyway reduced. We do not particularly encourage FD off manual departures on noise sensitive SIDs either.
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With the increasing number of regulations that require use of autopilot -- RVSM, PRNAV arrivals/departures, etc -- the amount of manual flying has decreased significantly over the past 10-15 years. Still, in the US we are obliged to demonstrate a manually flown engine-out ILS approach to minimums in the simulator every 6 months (maybe less often with some of the new recurrent training schemes).
I have seen quite a mix of new FOs in our company -- some that will ALWAYS let the autopilot fly to the max extent allowed, and some that still like flying manually when allowed. I try to encourage the latter.
I have seen quite a mix of new FOs in our company -- some that will ALWAYS let the autopilot fly to the max extent allowed, and some that still like flying manually when allowed. I try to encourage the latter.
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Flying a simulator is quite different when it comes to feel.. so i believe the bi-annual s.engine ILS is not gonna be beneficial.
My company's policy directs maximum use of automation and i have seen pilots literally flying with the autopilot on, from 200ft after takeoff to 200ft at approach..
Some captains also discourage the manual flying even in the clear most weather and low workload situations. Only if there was a recommendation from the regulatory authorities.
My company's policy directs maximum use of automation and i have seen pilots literally flying with the autopilot on, from 200ft after takeoff to 200ft at approach..
Some captains also discourage the manual flying even in the clear most weather and low workload situations. Only if there was a recommendation from the regulatory authorities.
My last airline actually encouraged hand flying in low density areas. Most of my FOs hand flew a lot. I probably did a lot less, but the plane (A320) I flew for my last few years was so easy to fly that one or two approaches a month was plenty. I made a game of using the automation as long as I could since it was generally a lot easier to just turn it off and point the plane where I wanted to go.
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Our Operations Manual encourages us to fly manually whenever traffic permitts. The bad thing is that we are not allowed to turn the Autothrottle off.
Does anybody of you fly the Embraer E-Jet? (EMB170 - EMB195). Does your company allow you to disengage the Auto Throttle in normal operation when flying manually on that plane?
Does anybody of you fly the Embraer E-Jet? (EMB170 - EMB195). Does your company allow you to disengage the Auto Throttle in normal operation when flying manually on that plane?
Last edited by Plantronic; 31st Oct 2012 at 10:07.
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@Plantronic
I fly the E190 and strangely enough, my company has a dual take on flying manually and with or without the AT.
The books say (as you might allready know) that the use of automation is up to the pilot, while the use of autothrottle should be used during the entire flight, engaged prior takeoff and disengaged after landing or at PF's discretion
The way we, as a pilot body, use that sentence is that we can do whatever we want as long as both are OK with it.
So 99,9% of the takeoffs is done with AT (leaving room for that 0,1% of the takeoffs where the AT is forgotten) and the landings are a mixed bunch, AT wise.
I like to fly approaches manually with the AT on, more so in bad weather (just another safetynet to keep the speed roughly where I want it), but I also fly manually without the AT, to keep "current".
If I am tired or bored the AP+AT stay on untill a few 100 feet, but usually at least teh AP and when I feel ike it, the AT gets disengaged at or around the start of the approach or even way earlier if it is a nice day with little traffic around me. It basicly depends on the situation. But it is not uncommon for most pilots here to disengage the AP and sometimes the AT at 10.000ft (or during takeoff, to not engage it until 10.000ft or even higher)
The company has like a said a dual stance. They published that the use of the automation should be as high as possible, but the instructors preach the opposite, to let it depend on the situation (traffic, fatigue, CRM etc).
I fly the E190 and strangely enough, my company has a dual take on flying manually and with or without the AT.
The books say (as you might allready know) that the use of automation is up to the pilot, while the use of autothrottle should be used during the entire flight, engaged prior takeoff and disengaged after landing or at PF's discretion
The way we, as a pilot body, use that sentence is that we can do whatever we want as long as both are OK with it.
So 99,9% of the takeoffs is done with AT (leaving room for that 0,1% of the takeoffs where the AT is forgotten) and the landings are a mixed bunch, AT wise.
I like to fly approaches manually with the AT on, more so in bad weather (just another safetynet to keep the speed roughly where I want it), but I also fly manually without the AT, to keep "current".
If I am tired or bored the AP+AT stay on untill a few 100 feet, but usually at least teh AP and when I feel ike it, the AT gets disengaged at or around the start of the approach or even way earlier if it is a nice day with little traffic around me. It basicly depends on the situation. But it is not uncommon for most pilots here to disengage the AP and sometimes the AT at 10.000ft (or during takeoff, to not engage it until 10.000ft or even higher)
The company has like a said a dual stance. They published that the use of the automation should be as high as possible, but the instructors preach the opposite, to let it depend on the situation (traffic, fatigue, CRM etc).
Last edited by the_stranger; 31st Oct 2012 at 11:07.
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As
As my name suggests I enjoy my job the most when I'm flying the airplane. This means no AP no AT and most importantly no FD (or FPV).
I try and do all departures, arrivals and approaches using raw data.
Of course I consider external (and internal) factors when I decide to practice my manual flying, ie, i will use the FD in gusty or turbulent approaches or when tired, use of AP with WX or situations that may require a GA, and use of AP when in noise sensitive destinations as examples.
In my opinion, since I have started flying manually on a daily basis my SA, spare capacity and overall performance have improved dramatically.
All that is said above is with regards to myself, and I'm not trying to teach or preach to anyone else.
I know there are many different Captains and FOs out there, and would encourage them to do what they think is in the best interest of their passengers.
(Short haul, Boeing driver)
I try and do all departures, arrivals and approaches using raw data.
Of course I consider external (and internal) factors when I decide to practice my manual flying, ie, i will use the FD in gusty or turbulent approaches or when tired, use of AP with WX or situations that may require a GA, and use of AP when in noise sensitive destinations as examples.
In my opinion, since I have started flying manually on a daily basis my SA, spare capacity and overall performance have improved dramatically.
All that is said above is with regards to myself, and I'm not trying to teach or preach to anyone else.
I know there are many different Captains and FOs out there, and would encourage them to do what they think is in the best interest of their passengers.
(Short haul, Boeing driver)
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Quote: "to do what they think is in the best interest of their passengers" - and of their cargo!
In my outfit, manual flying (no AP and sometimes no FD - the aircraft has no AT) is not frowned upon - when done with reason. For instance, flying an RNAV SID at night with no AP and no FD is not always reasonable. Even the slightest deviation resulting in a noise infrigement fine could cost up to 20,000 Euros a go - methinks the Company would not be amused...
A N-1 manually-flown ILS approach also has to be demonstrated at each OPC, so better have plenty of practice in real life. As elsewhere, some of my colleagues prefer to leave the AP engaged 95% of the time, while others (like me) like to hand-fly whenever possible. Remember that hand-flying (especially with FD off) increases the PNF's workload on an approach or departure, so it has to be properly briefed beforehand and done with reason.
But I agree that unfortunately, today's flying environment is not conductive to maintaining a high level of manual-flying skills, while training departments should encourage it.
Cheers
In my outfit, manual flying (no AP and sometimes no FD - the aircraft has no AT) is not frowned upon - when done with reason. For instance, flying an RNAV SID at night with no AP and no FD is not always reasonable. Even the slightest deviation resulting in a noise infrigement fine could cost up to 20,000 Euros a go - methinks the Company would not be amused...
A N-1 manually-flown ILS approach also has to be demonstrated at each OPC, so better have plenty of practice in real life. As elsewhere, some of my colleagues prefer to leave the AP engaged 95% of the time, while others (like me) like to hand-fly whenever possible. Remember that hand-flying (especially with FD off) increases the PNF's workload on an approach or departure, so it has to be properly briefed beforehand and done with reason.
But I agree that unfortunately, today's flying environment is not conductive to maintaining a high level of manual-flying skills, while training departments should encourage it.
Cheers
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Does anybody of you fly the Embraer E-Jet? (EMB170 - EMB195). Does your company allow you to disengage the Auto Throttle in normal operation when flying manually on that plane?
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Always a lot of different views on this.Bottom line flying is a degradeable skill. Don't use it and you do loose it.... the more experience you have the longer it takes to loose...but loose it you will. Once described to me as chalk being overwritten on a wall.... the more times you have overwritten the longer it will take for the elements to wash it off. Most pax would be concerned if they felt their pilots would struggle to perform a raw data approach on standby instruments. Not an unreasonable view.
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Always a lot of different views on this.Bottom line flying is a degradeable skill. Don't use it and you do loose it.... the more experience you have the longer it takes to loose.
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I fly the E190 (and its smaller sister) and we always use AT for takeoff. It's also a very easy and forgiving aircraft to fly manually. Flying the departures manually (ie AP off) depends on many factors. (Who I am flying with, how I'm feeling, type of departure, weather, ATC area) After many years of not flying visual approaches I changed operators and suddenly was asked by some line captains if I wanted to fly a visual approach and I noticed I'd gotten very rusty. In the sim I keep getting comments that my manual handling was like the AP was on so I still had the skills. Our manuals allow raw data approaches etc depending on the factors mentioned above. And use it with common sense. Now I fly one after the other visual approach. I am glad I got pushed to use my manual skills again in real life. Turning finals at 600ft is just awsome. It always give me a smile and I've noticed that my personal workload reduced the more exposure I got.
Many Captains fly fully automatic till decision altitude. That's fne with me but the flipside is that some are uncomfortable with the AP and/or AT being off. Some try to discourage visuals/manual flying when the situation clearly permits it. He's the boss so I'll go with the flow. There's always another sector tomorrow...
My new company also operates the A319/320/321 and from what I hear from the guys who recently transitioned from Embraer to Airbus is that it is very much frowned upon to fly manual/visual. Still the same Part A manual but a different demographic of captains/background and training of them.
Many Captains fly fully automatic till decision altitude. That's fne with me but the flipside is that some are uncomfortable with the AP and/or AT being off. Some try to discourage visuals/manual flying when the situation clearly permits it. He's the boss so I'll go with the flow. There's always another sector tomorrow...
My new company also operates the A319/320/321 and from what I hear from the guys who recently transitioned from Embraer to Airbus is that it is very much frowned upon to fly manual/visual. Still the same Part A manual but a different demographic of captains/background and training of them.
Last edited by John21UK; 9th Nov 2012 at 08:27.
My previous company I think fair to say, encouraged manual flying of the aircraft, provided it was sensible, prudent & safe to do so at the time. A number of airfields, many in the Med, Heraklion, Corfu to name just two, would be where a manually flown approach & landing were the only real option.
We also I recall used to complete a manual ADF on all our six monthly sim checks, whether still required by CAA & other regulations or not, it was a good way of keeping up your handling & other skills, we even got in on the odd one or two of mine!
We also I recall used to complete a manual ADF on all our six monthly sim checks, whether still required by CAA & other regulations or not, it was a good way of keeping up your handling & other skills, we even got in on the odd one or two of mine!
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BA & Autothrottle
What a sad state when an airline like BA feel they can no longer trust the crew to decide how to fly the aircraft..............it says so much about were the power lies in BA.
Next time you get on to a BA aircraft remember that the pilot skill set is no longer driven my professional pilots but by lawers.
Next time you get on to a BA aircraft remember that the pilot skill set is no longer driven my professional pilots but by lawers.
