Have you ever known both pilots fallen asleep at the controls?
Have you ever known both pilots fallen asleep at the controls?
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No, sorry - not a journo. If I was, I would be asking for info like what airline, what route, how many pax, etc etc. As it is, I would specifically urge you not to reveal this sort of info! (not that anyone is dumb enough to, anyway)
*** HEADLINE NEWS ***
The Daily Spam can exclusively reveal that airline pilots >>DO<< fall asleep at the controls of their planes. Erm... we don't know which planes, or even what airline. Or even where, or when. But we can reveal exclusively that it does happen, because we've seen posts on the PPRuNe bulletin board. One pilot, by the name of Flaps15 said that he and his FO fell asleep for 30 minutes once! Another pilot, going by the name of Stroppalot said that on one occasion, both he and his Captain were asleep all the way from London Gatwick to JFK in the states.
Come on! Stop being so blinking paranoid!
*** HEADLINE NEWS ***
The Daily Spam can exclusively reveal that airline pilots >>DO<< fall asleep at the controls of their planes. Erm... we don't know which planes, or even what airline. Or even where, or when. But we can reveal exclusively that it does happen, because we've seen posts on the PPRuNe bulletin board. One pilot, by the name of Flaps15 said that he and his FO fell asleep for 30 minutes once! Another pilot, going by the name of Stroppalot said that on one occasion, both he and his Captain were asleep all the way from London Gatwick to JFK in the states.
Come on! Stop being so blinking paranoid!
Guest
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Alright then, how does "No" sound to you? Not even heard of it happening in quiet over-a-beer chat to someone else. Sorry that's not the answer you want, but in 13 years of commercial aviation never heard of it.
Happy? I can't understand your ulterior motive in posting this; at least journalists' motives are transparent, gawd bless'em. Good luck anyhow...
£6
Paranoid, and proud of it.
Happy? I can't understand your ulterior motive in posting this; at least journalists' motives are transparent, gawd bless'em. Good luck anyhow...
£6
Paranoid, and proud of it.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I used to have a nice little NASA nap when I was doing single pilot night freight in Metroliners. The radio was very quiet at that time of night and the autopilot seemed reliable enough. The three hour sectors were so boring.
I did do some unplanned NASA napping one day on a passenger charter in a Baron with no autopilot. I woke up after about 40 seconds of slumber to see a 1500 fpm descent and 45 degrees left wing down. I casually looked over at the front seat passenger to notice that he was looking out his side window and had not noticed. He smiled at me and seemed to be quite happy with the way things had been progressing.
That really made me think about a subtle incapacitation scenario (eg falling asleep) and how far the pax would let it get out of shape before they would feel the necessity to have a go themselves. Talking single pilot here of course.
As for two crew ops, every company I have ever worked for has an ops manual requirement that First Officers are prohibited from sleeping whilst in flight.
Sounds very reasonable to me!
I did do some unplanned NASA napping one day on a passenger charter in a Baron with no autopilot. I woke up after about 40 seconds of slumber to see a 1500 fpm descent and 45 degrees left wing down. I casually looked over at the front seat passenger to notice that he was looking out his side window and had not noticed. He smiled at me and seemed to be quite happy with the way things had been progressing.
That really made me think about a subtle incapacitation scenario (eg falling asleep) and how far the pax would let it get out of shape before they would feel the necessity to have a go themselves. Talking single pilot here of course.
As for two crew ops, every company I have ever worked for has an ops manual requirement that First Officers are prohibited from sleeping whilst in flight.
Sounds very reasonable to me!
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I dont care what anyone thinks, this guy/girl is a journo....Come back and call me paranoid if you want stropp, that won't make a stitch of differance, i still think your a journo. Most on here can spot 'em a mile off.........
P.S. Why lack of info in your profile..?
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Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....
P.S. Why lack of info in your profile..?
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Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....
Guest
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Yeah, whatever...
Like I said - this is a questions forum. I asked a question. If you don't want to answer, then that's fine. I just don't really see the point of going to the trouble to make a post just to say "oooh, look eveyone - he must be a journo, because he's asked a slightly risque question". Why bother?...
Like I said - this is a questions forum. I asked a question. If you don't want to answer, then that's fine. I just don't really see the point of going to the trouble to make a post just to say "oooh, look eveyone - he must be a journo, because he's asked a slightly risque question". Why bother?...
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Sorry guys I have to back stroppalot up here....
Not only is this an anonymous bulletin board but the answers given to random questions such as these are hardly going to end up on the front page of The Times.
Even if they did, unless someone came along and gave juicy details of airline, route, date etc. etc. It wouldn't harm anyone or any company.
Can I bring your your attention to other forum threads on this board like "The purpose of accident investigation, your opinion" and "Pilots to be drug tested regularly". Despite the fact the person on the former post expressly stated he/she was not a journo, wouldn't you do the same if you actually were, and wanted to squeeze info out of people?
Anyway, this is a QUESTIONS forum, answer the questions, keep it anonymous (if it is a touchy subject) and everyone will be happy.
SpeedBird22
Not only is this an anonymous bulletin board but the answers given to random questions such as these are hardly going to end up on the front page of The Times.
Even if they did, unless someone came along and gave juicy details of airline, route, date etc. etc. It wouldn't harm anyone or any company.
Can I bring your your attention to other forum threads on this board like "The purpose of accident investigation, your opinion" and "Pilots to be drug tested regularly". Despite the fact the person on the former post expressly stated he/she was not a journo, wouldn't you do the same if you actually were, and wanted to squeeze info out of people?
Anyway, this is a QUESTIONS forum, answer the questions, keep it anonymous (if it is a touchy subject) and everyone will be happy.
SpeedBird22
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You don't need names and pack drill to write an article which says: "A pilot source confirmed that this happens regularly, and even went on to describe one incident where..."; you get the idea.
Lack of info in the profile, coupled with simultaneous, journo-like Qs on other topics in this thread and getting a bit too stroppy when your request for info was declined - not the typical behaviour of a polite, keen spotter, wannabe or aviation enthusiast.
Sorry if we have been mistaken but spend some time on this forum or do a search o R&N for 'journalist', 'journo' etc. and you will see the reasons why a non-regulated, non-censored industry with carte blanche to write whatever misleading scare-mongering sensationalist crap it likes, making our lives a misery and often costing the jobs of our colleagues, would perhaps not be popular.
Try lurking a bit before leaping in - you might find the information here anyway. BAW22 IS a real wannabe - it's obvious from his politeness, honesty and previous posts. Take lessons.
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
Lack of info in the profile, coupled with simultaneous, journo-like Qs on other topics in this thread and getting a bit too stroppy when your request for info was declined - not the typical behaviour of a polite, keen spotter, wannabe or aviation enthusiast.
Sorry if we have been mistaken but spend some time on this forum or do a search o R&N for 'journalist', 'journo' etc. and you will see the reasons why a non-regulated, non-censored industry with carte blanche to write whatever misleading scare-mongering sensationalist crap it likes, making our lives a misery and often costing the jobs of our colleagues, would perhaps not be popular.
Try lurking a bit before leaping in - you might find the information here anyway. BAW22 IS a real wannabe - it's obvious from his politeness, honesty and previous posts. Take lessons.
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
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Well AffirmBrest, I have to respond to your post.
You said <<You don't need names and pack drill to write an article which says: "A pilot source confirmed that this happens regularly...>>. Well yes, you are probably right. But then if I was an underhanded journalist, I would just post whatever sensationalist replies I wanted to my own question using a different nickname!!! (or has your thought path not gone that far???)
You said <<...Lack of info in the profile...>> - well, yes. That's my right, I'm afraid. Any anyway, would "Occupation : Electrician, Email address : [email protected], Interests : Aviation" be proof that I'm NOT a journalist?
You also said <<...coupled with simultaneous, journo-like Qs on other topics in this thread...>> Huh? What papers do you read pal? My other questions include "How do trans-atlantic flights navigate" and "How far away is that airliner?" Hardly going to get Rupert Murdoch excited is it?
You also said <<...getting a bit too stroppy when your request for info was declined...>>. Now come off it! Scroll up the page and take a look at the pattern of posts. 1:I ask a polite question. 2:I get a response <<Sniff, Sniff...Mmmm. Journalist.>> Followed by <<Whoop Whoop! Journo alert!>>. I then responded with <<No, sorry - not a journo. If I was, I would be asking for info like what airline, what route, how many pax, etc etc. As it is, I would specifically urge you not to reveal this sort of info!>>. Could you perhaps highlight where I was getting stroppy? Do I not have the right to say that I am not a journo?
You also said <<Try lurking a bit before leaping in>>. Well, sorry buddy - I've been 'lurking' on PPRuNe (albeit as a non-poster) for two years or more.
I can understand your concerns, and yes, you do have valid reasons to be cautious of Journalists, but what I can't understand is the need to go to the trouble of posting an 'insult' when you don't have the facts. If you don't trust the post, then GO TO ANOTHER TOPIC - DON'T PARTICIPATE! What right do you have to call me a journalist? How the hell do you know? If you don't want to give information, then that's entirely your perogative, and I respect that. But let others decide for themselves if they want to post a response or not.
I have noticed over the last couple of years a decline in the standards of postings on PPRuNe. Some of this is because of the pretenders "I am a BA captain on a 747", who happen to be schoolkids posting junk. A lot of the problem, however, is because of people slagging other people off when they don't know the facts and don't know how to keep their thoughts to themselves. You will kill PPRuNe. This is a QUESTIONS forum. I have a right to ask a question without getting accused of looking for sensationalist gutter-press stories.
Anyway, lock the thread, delete the thread, reply with flames or other unfounded accusations... I don't really give a hoot !
Love and Kisses, Stroppy!
You said <<You don't need names and pack drill to write an article which says: "A pilot source confirmed that this happens regularly...>>. Well yes, you are probably right. But then if I was an underhanded journalist, I would just post whatever sensationalist replies I wanted to my own question using a different nickname!!! (or has your thought path not gone that far???)
You said <<...Lack of info in the profile...>> - well, yes. That's my right, I'm afraid. Any anyway, would "Occupation : Electrician, Email address : [email protected], Interests : Aviation" be proof that I'm NOT a journalist?
You also said <<...coupled with simultaneous, journo-like Qs on other topics in this thread...>> Huh? What papers do you read pal? My other questions include "How do trans-atlantic flights navigate" and "How far away is that airliner?" Hardly going to get Rupert Murdoch excited is it?
You also said <<...getting a bit too stroppy when your request for info was declined...>>. Now come off it! Scroll up the page and take a look at the pattern of posts. 1:I ask a polite question. 2:I get a response <<Sniff, Sniff...Mmmm. Journalist.>> Followed by <<Whoop Whoop! Journo alert!>>. I then responded with <<No, sorry - not a journo. If I was, I would be asking for info like what airline, what route, how many pax, etc etc. As it is, I would specifically urge you not to reveal this sort of info!>>. Could you perhaps highlight where I was getting stroppy? Do I not have the right to say that I am not a journo?
You also said <<Try lurking a bit before leaping in>>. Well, sorry buddy - I've been 'lurking' on PPRuNe (albeit as a non-poster) for two years or more.
I can understand your concerns, and yes, you do have valid reasons to be cautious of Journalists, but what I can't understand is the need to go to the trouble of posting an 'insult' when you don't have the facts. If you don't trust the post, then GO TO ANOTHER TOPIC - DON'T PARTICIPATE! What right do you have to call me a journalist? How the hell do you know? If you don't want to give information, then that's entirely your perogative, and I respect that. But let others decide for themselves if they want to post a response or not.
I have noticed over the last couple of years a decline in the standards of postings on PPRuNe. Some of this is because of the pretenders "I am a BA captain on a 747", who happen to be schoolkids posting junk. A lot of the problem, however, is because of people slagging other people off when they don't know the facts and don't know how to keep their thoughts to themselves. You will kill PPRuNe. This is a QUESTIONS forum. I have a right to ask a question without getting accused of looking for sensationalist gutter-press stories.
Anyway, lock the thread, delete the thread, reply with flames or other unfounded accusations... I don't really give a hoot !
Love and Kisses, Stroppy!
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Easy Stroppalot - wonder how you got your name?
Nowhere in my post was there anything intended as a personal insult - it was merely meant as an explanation for why some would hesitate before answering questions such as yours on this forum. I have high regard for only a few journalists (you may have gathered) - hence my initial cynicism (and apology if I had got it wrong).
Your subsequent responses were flippant and sarcastic to say the least 'Yeah, whatever..' and 'stop being so blinking paranoid' - My 2nd post was to explain why those who had been cynical in the first place held those views.
My assumption that you had done little lurking was based only on the fact that I know that similar queries, with answers to all your Qs, have been posted on these pages in recently history - certainly in the last 2 years. I apologise for this, your PPRuNing credentials are safe!
As for an answer - try David Beatys Book 'The Naked Pilot' - lots in there about Fatigue/Tiredness and some examples such as those you seek. Personally, I have taken it in turns to take naps on long night charters - with the express pre-brief that should the awake pilot feel even slightly droopy, he wake the sleeper without hesitation, and if we are both having trouble staying awake we put the lights on and get one of the cabin crew in for conversation. Never had a problem with it.
Sorry I rattled your cage, but as me old pappy used to say: it's better to be a pessimist than an optimist - you are always less frequently disappointed.
Rgds, AB
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
Nowhere in my post was there anything intended as a personal insult - it was merely meant as an explanation for why some would hesitate before answering questions such as yours on this forum. I have high regard for only a few journalists (you may have gathered) - hence my initial cynicism (and apology if I had got it wrong).
Your subsequent responses were flippant and sarcastic to say the least 'Yeah, whatever..' and 'stop being so blinking paranoid' - My 2nd post was to explain why those who had been cynical in the first place held those views.
My assumption that you had done little lurking was based only on the fact that I know that similar queries, with answers to all your Qs, have been posted on these pages in recently history - certainly in the last 2 years. I apologise for this, your PPRuNing credentials are safe!
As for an answer - try David Beatys Book 'The Naked Pilot' - lots in there about Fatigue/Tiredness and some examples such as those you seek. Personally, I have taken it in turns to take naps on long night charters - with the express pre-brief that should the awake pilot feel even slightly droopy, he wake the sleeper without hesitation, and if we are both having trouble staying awake we put the lights on and get one of the cabin crew in for conversation. Never had a problem with it.
Sorry I rattled your cage, but as me old pappy used to say: it's better to be a pessimist than an optimist - you are always less frequently disappointed.
Rgds, AB
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
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So lets see if I've got this right stropman...
You ask a question which wouldn't be out of place in the National Enquirer, and everyone just rolls over and barks like dogs in the rush to answer you. Is that the script?
Get real. And no, I've never heard of it happening either. One at a time, two in the bunks even, but never at the controls.
Congratulations on winning the most appropriate user name award 2001, however. Other aliases include Shortfuse and Unreal_Expectations, perhaps?
You ask a question which wouldn't be out of place in the National Enquirer, and everyone just rolls over and barks like dogs in the rush to answer you. Is that the script?
Get real. And no, I've never heard of it happening either. One at a time, two in the bunks even, but never at the controls.
Congratulations on winning the most appropriate user name award 2001, however. Other aliases include Shortfuse and Unreal_Expectations, perhaps?
Guest
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Stroppalot.
I also have noticed that, If you ask a question or respond to one you then spend time posting in order to justify yourself.
You can ask whatever you like mate !! and should not have to put with pathetic insults.
There are a minority of ppruners that like nothing better than to spoil the question in hand, I believe they are known as w**kers.
I agree with all you had to say in that lengthy post of yours.
I also have noticed that, If you ask a question or respond to one you then spend time posting in order to justify yourself.
You can ask whatever you like mate !! and should not have to put with pathetic insults.
There are a minority of ppruners that like nothing better than to spoil the question in hand, I believe they are known as w**kers.
I agree with all you had to say in that lengthy post of yours.