Spanish ATC ** RANT ***
Join Date: Apr 2009
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ATC in Madrid are the most shockingly useless group of 'professionals' I have ever had to deal with in my lifetime. Throw in the attitudes of the Spanish airlines who expect priority (and receive it 99% of the time) over all foreign carriers, and Madrid is undoubtedly an accident waiting to happen.
Spanish pride - ugh what a
.
Spanish pride - ugh what a
.
How about swapping some of the controllers at LATCC or Maastricht say with those at Madrid or Barcelona? - we'd see some major changes within days methinks.
I trust you're saying this tongue-in-cheek.
It would probably take 6 months or longer for an experienced controller from another unit to validate. Following which you would have to expect delays through LATCC and Maastricht due to staff shortages!
It would probably take 6 months or longer for an experienced controller from another unit to validate. Following which you would have to expect delays through LATCC and Maastricht due to staff shortages!
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
This subject has been covered in previous threads.
The problem is that Spanish ATC really do believe they are amongst the best in Europe.
They say that their basic pay is comparable to other European controllers forgetting that their T & Cs allow the uplift of several €100,000 in additional overtime pay.
They do not understand that their country is broke and propped up by North Europe.
They do not understand that tourism is their biggest hope of digging themselves out of the hole their leaders have dug.
They do not understand the world around them has changed and so must they.
All we can do is take a bit of extra fuel and play very special attention to TCAS and don,t let the incompetent Spanish ATC get to you.
As for comparing them with any other European country there is no comparison they are at the bottom of the table by some margin.
Fly safely.
This subject has been covered in previous threads.
The problem is that Spanish ATC really do believe they are amongst the best in Europe.
They say that their basic pay is comparable to other European controllers forgetting that their T & Cs allow the uplift of several €100,000 in additional overtime pay.
They do not understand that their country is broke and propped up by North Europe.
They do not understand that tourism is their biggest hope of digging themselves out of the hole their leaders have dug.
They do not understand the world around them has changed and so must they.
All we can do is take a bit of extra fuel and play very special attention to TCAS and don,t let the incompetent Spanish ATC get to you.
As for comparing them with any other European country there is no comparison they are at the bottom of the table by some margin.
Fly safely.
Back in the mid 90s, the Farnborough Bac 111 was carrying out a trial south of Tenerife which required the aircraft to operate at low altitude over the sea (1000ft or less). When it became time to return to Tenerife South, they requested a 'VFR join with a run and break to land'. The Spanish controllers tried to get them to climb to an IFR level to be vectored for the ILS, but the crew declined. ATC apparently had no conception of visual joins with aircraft of this size, ( I don't know what class of airspace it is there) but eventually allowed it!
Footnote: the break was carried out at 500ft agl, but the pilot misjudged his first approach and had to go round!!
Footnote: the break was carried out at 500ft agl, but the pilot misjudged his first approach and had to go round!!
THINKS... How many of the moaning pilots on here have visited a Spanish ATC facility to discuss their problems.........
All the companies that operate to Spain are, I am sure, well aware of the situation but little can be done since this is a (very) "work to rule".
Given the membership of the EU I am surprised that no political representations have been made concerning the waste of fuel, time and the knock-on effect of increased duty times and the ramifications for flight safety.
I wish I could take you on a few flights to Spain to show you what we mean but sadly that is not possible.
Something I heard whilst on Approach into Madrid was an Air Berlin requesting the use off 33L for landing, at the time he was on the arrival for 33R.
Even though 33L was the main landing runway the request was refused with the response "sir, its not that 33L is unavailable but its the attitude of your company. Continue as cleared for 33R".
Even though 33L was the main landing runway the request was refused with the response "sir, its not that 33L is unavailable but its the attitude of your company. Continue as cleared for 33R".
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Thats spanish ATC in a nutshell. Dangerous, unprofessional, no clue about what they do at any time and the biggest risk factor to aviation in spain. You better keep a good lookout at all times as they vector you right into other traffic without batting an eye.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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What are you guys talking about. Spanish ATC is the best in the world!! 
Especially in Madrid! E.g.: they manage to give you take-off clearance 2 min after you're airborne! So far I haven't seen any ATC unit capable of doing that!
"Estacion llamando, repite su indicativo" After trying to check in for 5 times.
However their dispute over their contracts has got nothing to do with all of the above in my opinion. Everyone who says they're earning too much blablabla are just jealous. There is a lot more to the story than meets the eye. (public hate campaign fed by the government to unilaterally change conditions of service)
How would you feel if suddenly your company decides to pay you half the money or less and uses miltary force by royal decree to undermine your position?
For me they are 2 separate subjects. I am the last one to defend Spanish ATC, they are the worst ever! But they are workers with civil rights and if the government wants to change their conditions they should use the normal channels available as with any normal worker. But hey.... easy targets!
Especially in Madrid! E.g.: they manage to give you take-off clearance 2 min after you're airborne! So far I haven't seen any ATC unit capable of doing that!
"Estacion llamando, repite su indicativo" After trying to check in for 5 times.
However their dispute over their contracts has got nothing to do with all of the above in my opinion. Everyone who says they're earning too much blablabla are just jealous. There is a lot more to the story than meets the eye. (public hate campaign fed by the government to unilaterally change conditions of service)
How would you feel if suddenly your company decides to pay you half the money or less and uses miltary force by royal decree to undermine your position?
For me they are 2 separate subjects. I am the last one to defend Spanish ATC, they are the worst ever! But they are workers with civil rights and if the government wants to change their conditions they should use the normal channels available as with any normal worker. But hey.... easy targets!
Join Date: Mar 2009
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However their dispute over their contracts has got nothing to do with all of the above in my opinion.
How would you feel if suddenly your company decides to pay you half the money or less and uses miltary force by royal decree to undermine your position?
For me they are 2 separate subjects. f the government wants to change their conditions they should use the normal channels available as with any normal worker. But hey.... easy targets!
How would you feel if suddenly your company decides to pay you half the money or less and uses miltary force by royal decree to undermine your position?
For me they are 2 separate subjects. f the government wants to change their conditions they should use the normal channels available as with any normal worker. But hey.... easy targets!
As I said earlier..keep up the good tactic Spain..your days are numbered.
http://ftejerez.com/courses/atc/index.php
Join Date: Sep 2005
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The solution? RNP.
A few days ago heard a great conversation between spanish atc & the crew of a national airline based in the next country, slightly to the west.
Said crew asked for direct to some VOR only to be refused & instructed to follow flight plan route. Crew then asked to fly 3nm "offset right" due to safety. ATC refused only for crew to ask again followed by another very blunt refusal! Crew then asked to confirm the airway was certified RNP 10. imagine the confusion at this question, it took a while for the penny to drop, but eventually it was confirmed as RNP 10 &you can guess what happened next, they announced & turned for the 3nm Offset Right!! I can only imagine 3nm put them on a direct track to the previouse requested VOR!! ATC was speachless & I assume powerless. If we all did this then the spanish bullsh*t would soon stop. Unfortunately I didnt have the balls to follow the example. Pity really.
Said crew asked for direct to some VOR only to be refused & instructed to follow flight plan route. Crew then asked to fly 3nm "offset right" due to safety. ATC refused only for crew to ask again followed by another very blunt refusal! Crew then asked to confirm the airway was certified RNP 10. imagine the confusion at this question, it took a while for the penny to drop, but eventually it was confirmed as RNP 10 &you can guess what happened next, they announced & turned for the 3nm Offset Right!! I can only imagine 3nm put them on a direct track to the previouse requested VOR!! ATC was speachless & I assume powerless. If we all did this then the spanish bullsh*t would soon stop. Unfortunately I didnt have the balls to follow the example. Pity really.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by jumbojet
A few days ago heard a great conversation between spanish atc & the crew of a national airline based in the next country, slightly to the west.
Said crew asked for direct to some VOR only to be refused & instructed to follow flight plan route. Crew then asked to fly 3nm "offset right" due to safety. ATC refused only for crew to ask again followed by another very blunt refusal! Crew then asked to confirm the airway was certified RNP 10. imagine the confusion at this question, it took a while for the penny to drop, but eventually it was confirmed as RNP 10 &you can guess what happened next, they announced & turned for the 3nm Offset Right!! I can only imagine 3nm put them on a direct track to the previouse requested VOR!! ATC was speachless & I assume powerless. If we all did this then the spanish bullsh*t would soon stop. Unfortunately I didnt have the balls to follow the example. Pity really.
Said crew asked for direct to some VOR only to be refused & instructed to follow flight plan route. Crew then asked to fly 3nm "offset right" due to safety. ATC refused only for crew to ask again followed by another very blunt refusal! Crew then asked to confirm the airway was certified RNP 10. imagine the confusion at this question, it took a while for the penny to drop, but eventually it was confirmed as RNP 10 &you can guess what happened next, they announced & turned for the 3nm Offset Right!! I can only imagine 3nm put them on a direct track to the previouse requested VOR!! ATC was speachless & I assume powerless. If we all did this then the spanish bullsh*t would soon stop. Unfortunately I didnt have the balls to follow the example. Pity really.
