Warning passengers about a go-around
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Briefing passengers about a go-around
Evening all
Bit of a 'what if' question, but hope you can help out.
If you fly an approach where there is an increased chance of a go-around (i.e. in rubbish weather), is it common practice / SOP for the Commander to brief the passengers about the likelihood of a rough approach / go-around in advance? Or do you prefer to explain why there was a go-around only if you need to do one so as not to cause unnecessary 'concern'?
I am sure there is not one answer, but am interested to know what you think.
Thanks,
Nick
Bit of a 'what if' question, but hope you can help out.
If you fly an approach where there is an increased chance of a go-around (i.e. in rubbish weather), is it common practice / SOP for the Commander to brief the passengers about the likelihood of a rough approach / go-around in advance? Or do you prefer to explain why there was a go-around only if you need to do one so as not to cause unnecessary 'concern'?
I am sure there is not one answer, but am interested to know what you think.
Thanks,
Nick
Last edited by Nicholas49; 23rd Jan 2011 at 09:41.
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Hi,
I have never (and probably never will) given any information about a go-around in advance. Passengers will for sure start to worry if you do so - even more than some of them already do; there are always a lot of people on board which are afraid of flying, or at least feel uneasy.
Giving them a heads-up before performing a go-around would be like in that Monty Python sketch where the pilots make an announcement saying 'Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.'
If a go-around is performed, then the passengers will be informed about any reasons in due time.
Besides that, every approach is a go-around with an optional landing
.
My two cents,
DBate
I have never (and probably never will) given any information about a go-around in advance. Passengers will for sure start to worry if you do so - even more than some of them already do; there are always a lot of people on board which are afraid of flying, or at least feel uneasy.
Giving them a heads-up before performing a go-around would be like in that Monty Python sketch where the pilots make an announcement saying 'Ladies and Gentlemen, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.'
If a go-around is performed, then the passengers will be informed about any reasons in due time.
Besides that, every approach is a go-around with an optional landing
.My two cents,
DBate
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Keep mouths firmly shut on the possible go-around...it is NONE of the passengers business.
After the fact, a short announcement may be desired, depending on the circumstances.
After the fact, a short announcement may be desired, depending on the circumstances.
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"Warning" the passengers?
After the fact, to keep the passengers informed, perhaps. But "warn" them?
"Folks, this is your captain speaking. We're beginning the final segment of an instrument approach which presents considerable risk, and may require us to abandon the approach at any moment due to severe weather. While the airline does have a policy of no cell phones until we're taxiing to the gate, I'm giving you permission to make a final call to your loved ones before we hit this monster head on. That is all."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your First Officer speaking. That's what we at XYZ Airlines call a 'copilot.' We'll be attempting to land momentarily. I say 'attempting' because there's a strong probability we won't make it. If things go badly, we'll try to 'go-around.' That's what we call trying to save a messed-up attempt to land. If that happens, it will feel a lot like a 'take-off,' which is what we did to get here in the first place. That is all."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Flight Attendant. The Captain has informed me that we're beginning our arrival to Loxahatchee, Please fasten your seatbelts and put in your mouth guards. We'll be landing shortly. In the event we try to land, but can't, please remain seated, because we'll be really close to the ground and completely blind, or partially out of control, or having a real problem with airspeed, or something really bad. At that time, you'll receive another announcement telling you something reassuring to assuage your fears, and we'll discretely tell you what comes next. As always, have a great day, and thank you for flying what's left of XYZ airlines."
or how about
"Folks, this is your captain speaking. We'll be landing shortly but I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you that while we realize you have a choice of which airline to fly. Today we feel that you may have made the wrong one. Plan accordingly."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, although there's a distinct possibility we won't be able to safely land, we're going to try it anyway. If it turns out the way we think, we'll be going around. You may feel a frightening change in pitch and power as we abandon the approach and climb like a ruptured duck, back into the storm. If that's the case, we're asking you not to worry. The Flight Attendant will be around shortly with strong drinks and eye shades to help you forget what's happening. Thank you for flying with XYZ Airlines."
Are we getting warmer, yet?
After the fact, to keep the passengers informed, perhaps. But "warn" them?
"Folks, this is your captain speaking. We're beginning the final segment of an instrument approach which presents considerable risk, and may require us to abandon the approach at any moment due to severe weather. While the airline does have a policy of no cell phones until we're taxiing to the gate, I'm giving you permission to make a final call to your loved ones before we hit this monster head on. That is all."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your First Officer speaking. That's what we at XYZ Airlines call a 'copilot.' We'll be attempting to land momentarily. I say 'attempting' because there's a strong probability we won't make it. If things go badly, we'll try to 'go-around.' That's what we call trying to save a messed-up attempt to land. If that happens, it will feel a lot like a 'take-off,' which is what we did to get here in the first place. That is all."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Flight Attendant. The Captain has informed me that we're beginning our arrival to Loxahatchee, Please fasten your seatbelts and put in your mouth guards. We'll be landing shortly. In the event we try to land, but can't, please remain seated, because we'll be really close to the ground and completely blind, or partially out of control, or having a real problem with airspeed, or something really bad. At that time, you'll receive another announcement telling you something reassuring to assuage your fears, and we'll discretely tell you what comes next. As always, have a great day, and thank you for flying what's left of XYZ airlines."
or how about
"Folks, this is your captain speaking. We'll be landing shortly but I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you that while we realize you have a choice of which airline to fly. Today we feel that you may have made the wrong one. Plan accordingly."
or how about
"Ladies and Gentlemen, although there's a distinct possibility we won't be able to safely land, we're going to try it anyway. If it turns out the way we think, we'll be going around. You may feel a frightening change in pitch and power as we abandon the approach and climb like a ruptured duck, back into the storm. If that's the case, we're asking you not to worry. The Flight Attendant will be around shortly with strong drinks and eye shades to help you forget what's happening. Thank you for flying with XYZ Airlines."
Are we getting warmer, yet?
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If you start the approach expecting to need to go around, why did you start the approach?
If you have enough time to tell the passengers you are about to go around, why not just go around once you make that decision?
The only time they should be starting an approach with the expectation that it will turn into a go around with a 100% probibility is during training for go arounds.
If you tell passengers you are probably going to go around, but don't go around and proceed to land, why are you misinforming people.
If you well passengers you are probably going to go around, what can they do about it? what does "go around" mean to a pax? That you will be late on arrival time? Why not just tell them there's a delay?
Doesn't make sense.
If you have enough time to tell the passengers you are about to go around, why not just go around once you make that decision?
The only time they should be starting an approach with the expectation that it will turn into a go around with a 100% probibility is during training for go arounds.
If you tell passengers you are probably going to go around, but don't go around and proceed to land, why are you misinforming people.
If you well passengers you are probably going to go around, what can they do about it? what does "go around" mean to a pax? That you will be late on arrival time? Why not just tell them there's a delay?
Doesn't make sense.
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Nicholas,
I have flown over 22000 hours as pilot in command on international routes and experienced the year round changes of weather that go with it.
In that time I have made less than half a dozen missed approaches due weather If the destination weather at the time is already below limits the chances are that the airport will already be closed, or you have already diverted. If it is marginal, the chances are you will get in.
Why cause unnecessary apprehension amongst your passengers?
In my P.A. to the passengers prior to commencing the descent I would have given them the actual weather, and if I have expected the approach to be turbulent then I would have mentioned that as part of the briefing - referring it to being a "Little Bumpy on approach".
In the unlikely event of an overshoot, once the aircraft is cleaned up and at a safe height, time permitting would then advise why it had become necessary, and what my intentions were - holding or diversion etc.
By all means keep your passengers informed, but not apprehensive
I have flown over 22000 hours as pilot in command on international routes and experienced the year round changes of weather that go with it.
In that time I have made less than half a dozen missed approaches due weather If the destination weather at the time is already below limits the chances are that the airport will already be closed, or you have already diverted. If it is marginal, the chances are you will get in.
Why cause unnecessary apprehension amongst your passengers?
In my P.A. to the passengers prior to commencing the descent I would have given them the actual weather, and if I have expected the approach to be turbulent then I would have mentioned that as part of the briefing - referring it to being a "Little Bumpy on approach".
In the unlikely event of an overshoot, once the aircraft is cleaned up and at a safe height, time permitting would then advise why it had become necessary, and what my intentions were - holding or diversion etc.
By all means keep your passengers informed, but not apprehensive
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SNS3Guppy: there is no need to be facetious. I do not appreciate your sarcastic comments. In fact, I was quite surprised by your reply, given that you normally provide helpful, informative answers. OK, so I shouldn't have used the word 'warn'. I should perhaps have said 'Giving passengers a heads-up / briefing the passengers there is the possibility of a go-around' or some other less 'emotional' word. In any case, you knew full well what I meant. Either that or you can't read a question properly. I have re-named the thread title so as not to cause you further offence.
DBate: thanks for the laugh.
DBate: thanks for the laugh.
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I am always attentive to announcements from the cockpit, however, as a passenger I don't think it is my business what the pilots needs to do to satisfy the terms of my ticket.
If you are somewhat afraid of flying, that's your problem, not the pilot's.
If you are somewhat afraid of flying, that's your problem, not the pilot's.
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I am not in the slightest afraid of flying. I love it!
I seriously think some posters have massively mis-interpreted the slant of my question. I wasn't asking it from the point of view of someone who is afraid of flying / thinks a go-around is a near-death experience etc. etc. I asked the question simply to understand what the policy / accepted practice is in such situations. Hope that clarifies.
I seriously think some posters have massively mis-interpreted the slant of my question. I wasn't asking it from the point of view of someone who is afraid of flying / thinks a go-around is a near-death experience etc. etc. I asked the question simply to understand what the policy / accepted practice is in such situations. Hope that clarifies.
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I am not in the slightest afraid of flying. I love it!
I seriously think some posters have massively mis-interpreted the slant of my question. I wasn't asking it from the point of view of someone who is afraid of flying / thinks a go-around is a near-death experience etc. etc. I asked the question simply to understand what the policy / accepted practice is in such situations. Hope that clarifies.
I seriously think some posters have massively mis-interpreted the slant of my question. I wasn't asking it from the point of view of someone who is afraid of flying / thinks a go-around is a near-death experience etc. etc. I asked the question simply to understand what the policy / accepted practice is in such situations. Hope that clarifies.
I meant nothing personal, Nicholas, my apologies for being a little clumsy.
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Wind it in a bit Guppy, you're starting to come across as a bit of a plonker.
Neither of your posts have contributed anything useful to this topic so I wonder why you bothered in the first place.
A need to belittle and ridicule others to make yourself feel better perhaps.
Neither of your posts have contributed anything useful to this topic so I wonder why you bothered in the first place.
A need to belittle and ridicule others to make yourself feel better perhaps.
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ladies and gentle man , this is your captain speaking , while we were flying our final approach me and my buddy the first officer missed up everything so i think we need to make another approach , thanks for choosing us and i hope you fly with us again 
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Neither of your posts have contributed anything useful to this topic so I wonder why you bothered in the first place.
That said, I believe the point was quite clear, and fully in accordance with what every other poster stated. In other words, given that I also noted that "warning" passengers about a go-around is improper, you've scarcely room to complain. Neither does the original poster, as his question was answered.
Which part of "after the fact, to keep the passengers informed, perhaps. But "warn" them?" do you not comprehend? Having a little difficulty with the English language, or simply taking potshots in the dark again?
You need to read the post, you see, before you whine about it. Either you failed to do that, or failed to comprehend what was written. Which one applies to you?
It would seem the original poster has edited his post to remove the language which earned his responses in the first place. As always, if you don't like the answers, don't ask the question. If you do ask the question, editing it out after the fact still won't change the answers. Back peddling doesn't change the fact.
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Which part of "after the fact, to keep the passengers informed, perhaps. But "warn" them?" do you not comprehend?
What you wonder about my posts is neither helpful nor contributory, and is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
or simply taking potshots in the dark again?
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Everything else was just unnecessary and nonsense.
Perhaps you should stick to your own, and see if you can come up with something to contribute to the thread. You've yet to address the topic, you see. I entered into the thread to address the topic,and did. You entered into the thread to attack another poster.
Do you see the difference? Ah, it's that comprehension thing, again.
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Just giving a bit of background here.
That might have been the case, but at the same time I seem to remember the OP used to spend his time writing utterly childish nonsense in the French forum and had a penchant for disrupting serious discussions in that manner (which is why he's in my ignore list). If he's now complaining about people being sarcastic and unhelpful... well, too bad, but what goes around... 
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LH2: Not that you can read this, but you've got the wrong person. No need to apologise.
SNS3Guppy: what, exactly, is your problem? I am absolutely stunned by your responses and attitude here. Why? Because you have answered questions of mine in the past (which I'm sure were equally 'stupid') in a patient, helpful, comprehensive manner. What's different this time? Have you had a bad experience where a passenger has shouted at you after you performed a go-around? Is it really that I used the word 'warn'? Or did you just get out of bed the wrong side? Please, help me out here. I am genuinely at a loss.
For the record, I flew on an established UK airline last year where the Captain did brief the passengers that the approach would be rough ('choppy' I think was his word). So it seems your apparent attitude of contempt is not shared by all your colleagues.
Incidentally, despite changing the name of the thread, it has remained the same in the list of threads.
SNS3Guppy: what, exactly, is your problem? I am absolutely stunned by your responses and attitude here. Why? Because you have answered questions of mine in the past (which I'm sure were equally 'stupid') in a patient, helpful, comprehensive manner. What's different this time? Have you had a bad experience where a passenger has shouted at you after you performed a go-around? Is it really that I used the word 'warn'? Or did you just get out of bed the wrong side? Please, help me out here. I am genuinely at a loss.
For the record, I flew on an established UK airline last year where the Captain did brief the passengers that the approach would be rough ('choppy' I think was his word). So it seems your apparent attitude of contempt is not shared by all your colleagues.
Incidentally, despite changing the name of the thread, it has remained the same in the list of threads.