Could I Land An Airliner?
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...and even if you do manage to land the aircraft, get ready to be sued by any americans on the flight for post traumatic stress or something! ...Try to save someone's life....get sued. 
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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Open Climb
Not sure if you are a pilot but if you are you will appreciate that all simulators are poor at reproducing the landing phase because they lack the richness of visual cues.
I have used MSFS in the past to practise map reading (how good are you, nowadays?) and on occasions to take-off my 747 from local grass fields.
If you say "I hope you are joking..." it doesn't really add much to the discussion because you don't reveal what your point is. I have met a few people who have landed full-motion simulators even though they are not pilots. By contrast I've see several people with no hope. So I think the person who started this thread is probably correct. An ordinary person has a very low probability of saving a plane whereas a PPL has a high probabilty providing the meteorological conditions etc are not too bad.
By the way it's nothing to do with FMSs. ATC will do all the navigation for you. It is can you land a big jet?
Not sure if you are a pilot but if you are you will appreciate that all simulators are poor at reproducing the landing phase because they lack the richness of visual cues.
I have used MSFS in the past to practise map reading (how good are you, nowadays?) and on occasions to take-off my 747 from local grass fields.
If you say "I hope you are joking..." it doesn't really add much to the discussion because you don't reveal what your point is. I have met a few people who have landed full-motion simulators even though they are not pilots. By contrast I've see several people with no hope. So I think the person who started this thread is probably correct. An ordinary person has a very low probability of saving a plane whereas a PPL has a high probabilty providing the meteorological conditions etc are not too bad.
By the way it's nothing to do with FMSs. ATC will do all the navigation for you. It is can you land a big jet?
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I've spent many hours on FS2000 but only a few hours in a real bugsmasher with friends. All I can say is that I feel the FS experience puts me in a position of knowing what should be done - actually executing it properly would most likely be a different matter. Mind you, a few months ago I managed to land a quadrapuff motion sim reasonably satisfactorily even though it was a very long landing.
As an aside, a friend is a lightie instructor and has just passed his IR. He is doing his ATPL's and has actually been asking me to ask him questions about aircraft systems. Some of the recent FS2000 models (767 in particular) are extremely good replicas of the real thing (until it comes to handling)!
As an aside, a friend is a lightie instructor and has just passed his IR. He is doing his ATPL's and has actually been asking me to ask him questions about aircraft systems. Some of the recent FS2000 models (767 in particular) are extremely good replicas of the real thing (until it comes to handling)!
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twistedenginestarter,
I find it impressive if a non-flyer or a PPL manages to land an airliner in the sim without outside help. It's no easy task for someone who's not familiar with the aircraft.
This, however, is my point: If one of these guys was to face the unlikely situation of having to land the actual thing with some 300+ pax onboard it would be a completely different ballgame. In the box it's all fun and games, in the actual situation it's life or death. The pressure on the poor fella would be to say the least extreme. I find it hard to believe he/she could do as nice a job as in the sim with all these lives depending on it.
I apologize if my previous post was offensive, it was not my intention. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and here was mine. I'm sure you find I have a valid point.
Cheers
P.S. Yes I am a pilot, or at least I used to be before I started 'flying' the A330.
(nice airplane tough!)
I find it impressive if a non-flyer or a PPL manages to land an airliner in the sim without outside help. It's no easy task for someone who's not familiar with the aircraft.
This, however, is my point: If one of these guys was to face the unlikely situation of having to land the actual thing with some 300+ pax onboard it would be a completely different ballgame. In the box it's all fun and games, in the actual situation it's life or death. The pressure on the poor fella would be to say the least extreme. I find it hard to believe he/she could do as nice a job as in the sim with all these lives depending on it.
I apologize if my previous post was offensive, it was not my intention. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and here was mine. I'm sure you find I have a valid point.
Cheers
P.S. Yes I am a pilot, or at least I used to be before I started 'flying' the A330.
(nice airplane tough!)
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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Open Climb
Not doubting that for a minute. However 28July is trying to impress his wife so let's boost his ego a tad. Mind you she may be more interested in other aspects of their relationship as he desctribes himself as a spanking PPL.
We need a new forum....
I'm sure you find I have a valid point.
We need a new forum....
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What about a PPL trying to land an airbus at Belfast City, being my local airport it would be my luck that the plane i'd have to take control of would be the BMI xmas xwind special! No thanks, ill stick to 172's for the time being.
A train on the other hand, now i think that'd be a lot easier to control! just press stop, if only aircraft were as easy!!
A train on the other hand, now i think that'd be a lot easier to control! just press stop, if only aircraft were as easy!!
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The main point of my question was whether a PPL would have a better chance of landing a airliner than the shelf stacker at Tesco's (provided he/she is not a PPL)
I think the answer is Yes. I would be more confident on the radio, be able to fiddle with the Autopilot and actually understand what I am being told to do. E.G. Change the Heading selector to 140 and Altitude to 10,000 please Mr PPL..Dont touch the big red knob.etc. Might lose the undercarriage on landing but I think it is "do-able".
Now where is my after landing checklist.
Walt,,
P.S. I dont need my ego boosted, but I find it is difficult to change the conversation to me being a PPL when my workmates want to talk about (YAWN) Football. Anyone know any footballers who are PPL's so at least I will have a starting point?
I think the answer is Yes. I would be more confident on the radio, be able to fiddle with the Autopilot and actually understand what I am being told to do. E.G. Change the Heading selector to 140 and Altitude to 10,000 please Mr PPL..Dont touch the big red knob.etc. Might lose the undercarriage on landing but I think it is "do-able".
Now where is my after landing checklist.
Walt,,
P.S. I dont need my ego boosted, but I find it is difficult to change the conversation to me being a PPL when my workmates want to talk about (YAWN) Football. Anyone know any footballers who are PPL's so at least I will have a starting point?
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Mmmm, I think some of my fellow “gods children” airline pilots have been stuck in their glass cockpit comfy chairs too long and have confused systems with flying.
Last time I checked you could still fly modern airliners by ASI, VSI throttles and looking out the window. Maybe I am confused but I thought they had these in smaller airplanes as well. The one I was in last week worked the same anyway!
A PPL probably could get it on the ground. Might bend the jet a bit but a reasonably competent PPL should be able to land it and not kill everyone.
Excuse me but actually flying an airplane is not exactly the most difficult job in the world whatever it is.
Systems management and CRM are different things all together, but that was not the question was it.
Have a nice day
Last time I checked you could still fly modern airliners by ASI, VSI throttles and looking out the window. Maybe I am confused but I thought they had these in smaller airplanes as well. The one I was in last week worked the same anyway!
A PPL probably could get it on the ground. Might bend the jet a bit but a reasonably competent PPL should be able to land it and not kill everyone.
Excuse me but actually flying an airplane is not exactly the most difficult job in the world whatever it is.
Systems management and CRM are different things all together, but that was not the question was it.
Have a nice day
Paxing All Over The World
As a potential pax in the a/c that 28th is trying to land ...
I understand that one of the most difficult aspects to get used to is the position of the pilot's backside relative to the gear and trying to arrange for the gear to reach the runway first.
This has been mentioned by one person, with regards to a SIM ride. If memory serves, the 747 pilot is something like 150 feet in front of and 75 feet above the intended moment of touch down. If he/she is elsewhere it might be problemantical.
However, before 28th starts charging up the aisle, don't forget that the hostie will be able to do it. (Land the plane, I mean). And I shall resist sexist comments like, it will be easy to take over when the Cap has his heart attack as she will already be sitting in his lap.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: PAXboy ]
I understand that one of the most difficult aspects to get used to is the position of the pilot's backside relative to the gear and trying to arrange for the gear to reach the runway first.
This has been mentioned by one person, with regards to a SIM ride. If memory serves, the 747 pilot is something like 150 feet in front of and 75 feet above the intended moment of touch down. If he/she is elsewhere it might be problemantical.
However, before 28th starts charging up the aisle, don't forget that the hostie will be able to do it. (Land the plane, I mean). And I shall resist sexist comments like, it will be easy to take over when the Cap has his heart attack as she will already be sitting in his lap.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: PAXboy ]
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Guys
Here are my observations ....
I have spent 6 hours in the Trident sim (earlier mentioned in the context of Rawdata's open days, although I did not attend these, but made a private arrangement.)
I have a PPL and going on for 300 hours.
The Trident is very pleasant to handle (surprisingly forgiving), but it needs smooth and accurate attention to deliver the required performance. It also has a traditional flight deck, so the majority of instruments are not unfamiliar to the average PPL. I was fortunate to benefit from the attention of a very experienced training captain.
I have "landed" the sim about 15 times, with one touchdown being above acceptable sink limits - aka a crash, the others being acceptable.
What you learn is that the old mantra of flying instructors "performance equals power plus pitch" is spot on. Its all about being stabilised and making small corrections to hit a profile.
Could I land a glass cockpit 7X7 when stressed out as there is real danger and no instructor?
I have no idea, but I would like to say that the Trident sim work has made me a lot better handler of light aircraft and I would commend it to any PPLs out there - it will do your handling skills no end of good.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Final 3 Greens ]
Here are my observations ....
I have spent 6 hours in the Trident sim (earlier mentioned in the context of Rawdata's open days, although I did not attend these, but made a private arrangement.)
I have a PPL and going on for 300 hours.
The Trident is very pleasant to handle (surprisingly forgiving), but it needs smooth and accurate attention to deliver the required performance. It also has a traditional flight deck, so the majority of instruments are not unfamiliar to the average PPL. I was fortunate to benefit from the attention of a very experienced training captain.
I have "landed" the sim about 15 times, with one touchdown being above acceptable sink limits - aka a crash, the others being acceptable.
What you learn is that the old mantra of flying instructors "performance equals power plus pitch" is spot on. Its all about being stabilised and making small corrections to hit a profile.
Could I land a glass cockpit 7X7 when stressed out as there is real danger and no instructor?
I have no idea, but I would like to say that the Trident sim work has made me a lot better handler of light aircraft and I would commend it to any PPLs out there - it will do your handling skills no end of good.
[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: Final 3 Greens ]
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Well 28thJuly2001,
If I croke it at the sharp end you are more than welcome to come up and "fiddle with the Autopilot". Somehow I think the autopilot may be worst thing to fiddle with. Hit the big red button, that disconnects it. Then just pretend you are flying your C152 !!
Good Luck, if you do land it.... make sure you get the airline to sponsor you !!!
If I croke it at the sharp end you are more than welcome to come up and "fiddle with the Autopilot". Somehow I think the autopilot may be worst thing to fiddle with. Hit the big red button, that disconnects it. Then just pretend you are flying your C152 !!
Good Luck, if you do land it.... make sure you get the airline to sponsor you !!!
I say there boy
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Final 3 greens,
I have a feeling that I might have been your PNF on one of your Trident Sim sessions? Or am I getting you mixed up with someone else?
cheers!
foggy.
I have a feeling that I might have been your PNF on one of your Trident Sim sessions? Or am I getting you mixed up with someone else?
cheers!
foggy.