Exit Via...
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Exit Via...
Hey guys,
Im new, so hi
Anyway, I control on the VATSIM newtwork (Yes I know not "real" but its better then nothing). Anyway, I control at Sydney (YSSY, SYD) as a tower controller.
My instructor said flew in today and told me that ATC has no right to instruct an aircraft to exit via a specific taxiway, only exit left or right. My initial response was then why do ATC assign a intersection departure?
Here is a typical arrival dialogue:
VOZ889: Sydney Tower VOZ889 on final 16r
TOWER: VOZ889, Sydney tower, good afternoon exit via B7, Runway 16r cleared to land
VOZ889: Exit via B7, 16R Cleared to land.
Now I hear "exit via" all the time, am I correct in issuing an exit instruction?
Im new, so hi
Anyway, I control on the VATSIM newtwork (Yes I know not "real" but its better then nothing). Anyway, I control at Sydney (YSSY, SYD) as a tower controller.
My instructor said flew in today and told me that ATC has no right to instruct an aircraft to exit via a specific taxiway, only exit left or right. My initial response was then why do ATC assign a intersection departure?
Here is a typical arrival dialogue:
VOZ889: Sydney Tower VOZ889 on final 16r
TOWER: VOZ889, Sydney tower, good afternoon exit via B7, Runway 16r cleared to land
VOZ889: Exit via B7, 16R Cleared to land.
Now I hear "exit via" all the time, am I correct in issuing an exit instruction?
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Not sure of the rules in Sydders but it is common to be asked (NB not 'told') to exit at xxx if possible. ATC cannot issue a mandatory unless there is an obstruction in which case the crew need to be notified in good time. The logic being that ATC cannot know for sure the stopping capability of a particular a/c on a particular day.
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Alex,
unfortunately I cannot tell you anything about Australian regulations either, but according to 3.6.1.4 of ICAO Annex 2 you are absolutely right.
As BOAC has pointed out, it is common practice to ask landing aircraft to arrange their landings so as to vacate via a specific taxiway. However, a taxi clearance like in your example (given on final approach with the landing clearance) would be a conditional clearance. Again, BOAC has already explained the logic behind this.
unfortunately I cannot tell you anything about Australian regulations either, but according to 3.6.1.4 of ICAO Annex 2 you are absolutely right.
3.6.1.4 An aircraft operated on a controlled aerodrome shall not taxi on the manoeuvring area without clearance from the aerodrome control tower and shall comply with any instructions given by that unit.
Again, don't know Down Under rules, but...
The tower can clear you for takeoff from an intersection because that is a known distance from a standing start. The crew is required to have data for the runway from that intersection, otherwise they have to refuse the clearance. At a prior job we carried books of takeoff data for the airports we operated out of. As each runway distance cost X amount per month to maintain the data on, there were many intersections we could not depart from because even though I knew from experience we could takeoff from there, we didn't have the paperwork to back it up.
Landing is a more fluid situation. You are supposed to land in the first 1000-1500 feet but if the approach speed is off or the wind changes the last couple hundrerd feet, stuff happens. My understanding is it's my runway when the tower says "Cleared to land" and I can use as much of it as I want.
If the instructins are to roll to the end and exit right, that might be the one case were the tower can call my exit.
The tower can clear you for takeoff from an intersection because that is a known distance from a standing start. The crew is required to have data for the runway from that intersection, otherwise they have to refuse the clearance. At a prior job we carried books of takeoff data for the airports we operated out of. As each runway distance cost X amount per month to maintain the data on, there were many intersections we could not depart from because even though I knew from experience we could takeoff from there, we didn't have the paperwork to back it up.
Landing is a more fluid situation. You are supposed to land in the first 1000-1500 feet but if the approach speed is off or the wind changes the last couple hundrerd feet, stuff happens. My understanding is it's my runway when the tower says "Cleared to land" and I can use as much of it as I want.
If the instructins are to roll to the end and exit right, that might be the one case were the tower can call my exit.
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I don't know anything about the simulated flying world, but I regularly get instruction to exit at a particular intersection. Such direction can be considered as advisory only. When briefing a landing, I will point out the intersection I anticipate using to leave the runway, but most of the time I use most or all of the runway. As a courtesy, we usually advise ATC during the roll, if able, that we won't make XX intersection.
We are not expected to make a particular exit, and don't try, generally speaking. Once cleared to land, it's our runway, and we will use what we need. I imagine that getting an imaginary airplane stopped isn't a big deal, but a 630,000 lb airplane with a short turn-around time has break temperature issues to consider. We use the runway we need, regardless of the intersection the controller would prefer us to use.
Conversely, if we are slow enough to take the recommended runway exit, we'll certainly comply, and if we have a choice of several and are slow enough to choose, we'll take the one issued by the controller. Otherwise, we'll tell the controller which one of the following intersections we can take, when it becomes apparent that we won't make the exit the controller has initially specified. If the controller has a particular need, we expect he will advise us accordingly.
We are not expected to make a particular exit, and don't try, generally speaking. Once cleared to land, it's our runway, and we will use what we need. I imagine that getting an imaginary airplane stopped isn't a big deal, but a 630,000 lb airplane with a short turn-around time has break temperature issues to consider. We use the runway we need, regardless of the intersection the controller would prefer us to use.
Conversely, if we are slow enough to take the recommended runway exit, we'll certainly comply, and if we have a choice of several and are slow enough to choose, we'll take the one issued by the controller. Otherwise, we'll tell the controller which one of the following intersections we can take, when it becomes apparent that we won't make the exit the controller has initially specified. If the controller has a particular need, we expect he will advise us accordingly.
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Hi,
A pilot must keep in mind the aditional runway information related to his plane, its category, For example:
Land and Hold Short Operations (LAHSO)
ATC may authorize operations which include simultaneous take off and landings and/or simultaneous landings when a landing aircraft is able and is instructed by the controller to hold-short of the intersecting runway/taxiway or designated hold short point. The available landing distance is shown in the LAHSO Distance column.
So, you are obligated to comply the distance and exit via... (there might be 2 ór 3 available gates according to your plane. Therefor, you choose one of them.
B.R
A pilot must keep in mind the aditional runway information related to his plane, its category, For example:
Land and Hold Short Operations (LAHSO)
ATC may authorize operations which include simultaneous take off and landings and/or simultaneous landings when a landing aircraft is able and is instructed by the controller to hold-short of the intersecting runway/taxiway or designated hold short point. The available landing distance is shown in the LAHSO Distance column.
So, you are obligated to comply the distance and exit via... (there might be 2 ór 3 available gates according to your plane. Therefor, you choose one of them.
B.R
