Flight deck visits

[TDK mk2]

You can do it in the uk, but you need to be extremely careful. In my last job there was a curtain between the cabin and the galley, and a forward toilet. As far as the other passengers were concerned a young boy (2 and a half) was taken to the toilet by his grandfather. I had my son and father in the flight deck which I'll probably never be able to do again in flight. I was working my notice but the DfT could have prosecuted me if some nosy passenger had poked a video camera past a curtain or something. We're all so paranoid these days...

[Ballymoss]

DI3G

Give the facts of the flight involved and you will get confirmation or not....

Well, that statement makes sense

Why would he want to give the full details and create another Pablo Mason/Robby Savage story? As for being a journo (they don't bother with interesting profiles)

Of course I could be completely wrong but, chances are US homeland security will feature more prominently in tomorrows rag-tops...

finfly1

...it wasn't just the VP, I believe they managed a piccy with Mr O'

Rgds
The Moss

[Tankertrashnav]

I would have thought that my excellent grammatical English and impeccable spelling would have given the clue that I am NOT a journalist.

[Random Electron]

I recently travelled to a major Far East destination from London Heathrow. I passed my business card, which declared me as a major UK airline B767 captain, to the cabin crew, and asked her to pass it on to the flight deck with my compliments, not really thinking much more of it. Imagine my surprise when the cabin crew member returned after a few minutes and informed me the captain requested my presence in the flight deck. Several hours of chit chat later, I saw TOPD coming up on the FMC, so I went to excuse myself on the grounds they were no doubt about to get busy, and I would like to leave them to their work. Not only was this dismissed as unnecessary, they offered me the second jump seat for my 16 year old son, who leapt at the invitation, and sat there with his video camera and filmed the whole descent, approach and landing into Bangkok, which included QRH actions due to a double a/c pack trip off. He was the man of the evening at his Air Cadets night on our eventual return to London, when he showed his footage. The carrier concerned was a well regarded Middle Eastern airline, and the flight deck crew were Canadian. Yes, it is only here in the UK we have problems with "rules".

[vickers vanguard]

great to hear it's still happening, kudo to the Canadian crew ........to hell that stupid rule.

[bravesbaseball]

qwertyuiop are you serious? The rule is not stupid. Calling it stupid is though. Let me see if I understand you. We saw thousands of people murdered, but we should not secure the flight deck. Is that what you are saying? Are you really serious?

[Strange Frontier]

Bravesbaseball

I normally just lurk, but I've read enough of this crap from Americans here and on other forums to stay quiet any longer.

September 11 was allowed to happen because of your own lax security at airports that allowed those idiots to get onto the planes with boxcutters in the first place, yet you now want to cry about it to the rest of the world and want to force others to adopt policies because of something that was your own doing.

Good heavens, in 2000 I wasn't even allowed to fly with a glue gun (yes, a hot glue gun that works with 220V electricity and melts solid glue sticks) in my hand luggage on a flight from Johannesburg to Dar Es Salaam on an SAA flight. When the bag went through the X-ray machine I was asked to open it and once I showed the contents to the security personnel the whole bag was taken from me and was hand delivered back to me once in the customs queue at Dar Es Salaam.

For the record, all the bag contained apart from the glue gun was some RJ45 network connectors, wall mount boxes and my RJ45 crimping tool. I was on my way to go install a computer network at the offices of a forestry company.

Yes, folks. Before 9/11, in an African country, I was not allowed to take a glue gun on the plane as hand luggage, yet the Americans allowed Muslim terrorists to board American planes on American soil with potentially lethal weapons on their person, after being taught to fly at American flight schools, with the CIA ignoring intel of a possible terrorist attack using planes as weapons, thereby allowing 9/11 to happen, yet now they are quick to try to force other countries to adapt to their will.

We in other countires must now suffer the consequences of their stupidity.

Before 9/11 cockpit visits in-flight on SAA was apparently very possible, but thanks to you, that is now strictly out of the question.

You Americans made life just a little less pleasant for the rest of us, so don't expect any sympathy from me for something that you brought on yourselves.

[piton]

Bravebaseball,
Prior to 9/11 cockpit doors were already supposed to be locked in the US and the flightdeck a no go area - how much good did that do?? When the security on the ground is as crappy as previous poster pointed out it is all window dressing.

We who are lucky enough not to fly in the US are glad to able to show our family members what we do. Or allow a colleague a courtesy visit.

Our bosses and regulators allow common sense and professionalism (and our ground security is still better than the US where bags are even now are often left onboard even if the pax don't make it so OTP for pushback isn't tarnished!) Crazy - just waiting for another Lockerbie.....

You need to think more about real security and not window dresssing.....

[Piltdown Man]

It depends on the carrier's country of registration and/or which country's airspace you are flying in. The UK and US have a totally pointless set of rules regarding cockpit access. The rest of a world appears to apply more enlightened policies.

PM

[shlittlenellie]

Ella, your own airline does allow flight deck visits on the ground. Check the cabin crew safety notices and yes, I know, it doesn't say that in the OMA.

[D-Gold]

I know it is very strict in a lot of companies, but i have never had any problem getting the jump seat on domestic flights and European flights. I have between 40-50 flights on jump seat. Just a few pilots who have said no, or "not the whole flight, but you are welcome from top of descent Never got tired of it so far

[champair79]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what would the chances be of me visiting the flight deck (ground or in the air, I'm grateful for anything) on a domestic Pegasus flight in Turkey?

I'm flying Easyjet from SAW-LTN later in the day but I've checked the flight and its only got a 30 min turnaround at SAW and a 45 min turnaround at LTN before aircraft goes to Madrid. I doubt the crew would want me asking for a visit on the ground in SAW or LTN with the short turnarounds.

I don't know what the rules here are in Turkey. Is it Captain's discretion. I have my PPL licence with me if that helps

If its a no, I won't lose any sleep over it but it would be a nice treat.

Champ

[pb365]

I used to like to visit the flight decks and meet the man in charge; always nice to put a face to the voice you hear over the PA. Many thanks to all pilots who spared the time. I am a UK citizen so I have to put up with our politicians pandering to what those damned yanks want so sod holidaying in the US.

Just like to say it is real useful banning flight deck visits when some mad-man blows up the plane from inside the passenger cabin or will do. Oh hang on a mo one did - remember Philippine Airlines flight 434.

[Rainboe]

Let's just remember what evil madmen did to 4 domestic flights in the US on one day! Where you want to vacation is up to you, but as a long experienced airline pilot, I have to say that a flight deck moving at nearly 600mph is not really the place to make introductions and offer hospitality! The pilots, if they are so inclined, can make themselves at the exit door of most aeroplanes to say goodbye, and I do try and do this most flights. When you see how congested airspace is these days, even in the middle of the north atlantic, and how fast closing speeds are (about 1200 mph), I'm afraid the days of the 'office' being a 'meet and have a chat' arena are most definitely over. In the old days when we could have people up for take-off, despite being asked to keep quiet, I have known visitors start a conversation with the flight engineer on the take-off roll. Those days are over.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Commonsense from Rainboe.. I often wonder if those writing on here who are so desperate to visit flight decks are similarly inclined when travelling by train? Do they write on railways forums asking if they can visit the front, or bemoan the fact that they can't? Just curious...

[CaptSeeAreEmm]

IMO strangers have no place on the flight deck - but people I personally know, family, friends, current and old work mates etc. are welcome.


I once had a case in LHR where my FO wanted to install his girlfriend on the jumpseat (I even knew her) - and some DfT dude went ballistic over it. Why shouldnt she be allowed to travel on the JS, we both knew her, and she was clearly not a terrorist.


What has happened to common sense

[pb365]

Commonsense from Rainboe.. I often wonder if those writing on here who are so desperate to visit flight decks are similarly inclined when travelling by train? Do they write on railways forums asking if theycan visit the front, or bemoan the fact that they can't? Just curious...

This is just the sort of garbage I have come to expect from British managers with their usual pompous and miserable attitude to all except their own cronies. The vast majority of pilots are quite willing to meet people as is evident on this forum and others. Rainboe, maybe you have a few unaddressed personal issues.

[pb365]

CaptSeeAreEmm, Rainboe, and Heathrow Director,

In furtherance to my previous post;
I of course have no knowledge if your forum names are in any way related to what you do or indeed if you are genuinely involved in the airline industry in anyway. However, let me point something out to you; prior to 2001 I have visited more than one flight deck and as an experienced pilot pointed out if they the crew were in any way bothered or there was likely to be any danger to anybody by my presence then they would never have let me in, in the first place, in addition a terrorist would not ask.

By the way Heathrow Director, I have been in been plenty of drivers cabs on the railways but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

Rainboe: Ha ha ha ha what have you told me in your post above not to mention your other posts on this forum?

[JW411]

pb365:

I notice from your personal profile that you:

"Have no flying experience, just interested in aviation".

You obviously have absolutely no idea how impossible flight deck visits have become since 9/11 and, I'm sorry, but you are way out of your depth to even discuss the topic. In the old days, I used to welcome visitors to my flight deck (on my terms and with the prior approval of the rest of my crew).

We often had visitors on the jump seat for take-off and landing even (with a heavy brief about when to talk and when not to talk).

If I were you, I would stick to cockpit rides with British Rail. Perhaps you could let us know when you finally hack a ride to BRU on the flight deck of Eurostar.

In any event, in excitement terms, that would beat the hell out of the average drag from LHR to LAX.

[pb365]

JW411,

You are talking through the top of your hat and obviously have not read very much on this subject although there is plenty on this forum alone. In the first instance I was not discussing the 'possibility' of flight deck visits merely commenting on the over-hyped security. This in case you don't know is also the opinion of a good many pilots - very likely the majority. Furthermore a good number of countries still allow visits, a fact which would appear to have escaped your attention - don't think I would care to have you at the front of any plane I am on. By the way I do not and never said I work for British Rail which in any event no longer exists. You are clearly neither British nor a pilot.

Ps: I well remember the reference to you posted by another poster but will spare you the embarassment by not posting it here. Ciao.