South Atlantic crossings
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South Atlantic crossings
South atlantic crossings
Hi guys and gals! I was just wondering if anyone has crossed the South Atlantic recently, specifically from West Africa to South America/Brazil. Any peculiarities, idiosyncracies, or notes of importance I should be aware of. I am expecting to make the crossing in the Corporate jet in a few weeks and just wanted to know if there's anyone out there with specific info. and/or advice. I have done oceanic crossings before such as in Asia/India but not this one.
All comments are welcome.
Cheers
Hi guys and gals! I was just wondering if anyone has crossed the South Atlantic recently, specifically from West Africa to South America/Brazil. Any peculiarities, idiosyncracies, or notes of importance I should be aware of. I am expecting to make the crossing in the Corporate jet in a few weeks and just wanted to know if there's anyone out there with specific info. and/or advice. I have done oceanic crossings before such as in Asia/India but not this one.
All comments are welcome.
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2006
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yep, both ways
Joburg to Chile, and then back Libreville.
Only problem was the EROPS requirement.
Libreville was very very good tech stop, not the cheapest in the world, but very good service.
HF was very good.
No problems at all.
glf
Only problem was the EROPS requirement.
Libreville was very very good tech stop, not the cheapest in the world, but very good service.
HF was very good.
No problems at all.
glf
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Donkeys years ago there was an article in Pilot about it - Not sure if it will be any use as it was done in a Mooney, but there may be something you can pick up from it.
I think the article was in the mid or late 90s. I would check for you but i'm now based 1000nm from where my back issues of Pilot live, in the UK - sorry.
Should you wish to read it you will probably find it on Pilotweb.aero
I think the article was in the mid or late 90s. I would check for you but i'm now based 1000nm from where my back issues of Pilot live, in the UK - sorry.
Should you wish to read it you will probably find it on Pilotweb.aero
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Here goes...
How odd. Recently talking to someone else about the same.
Be sure to have good HF and once on air be careful not to misrepresent LIMAL and LIMEL. LIMAL was formerly PLATY and is South of the Canaries whereas LIMEL is much further South twixt TITOR and AKDAK. But working the same HF, different native tongues…
Meantime visit http://www.aidu.mod.uk for a good browse. Two useful strip ERCs are available, namely AT(H)ST1 and AT(H)ST2. Not only do these show ATS routes but also dotted tracks into and out of Ascension. More later.
You can also buy from aidu on an ad hoc basis the CD disk UK Military Aeronautical Planning Document [Unclassified version]. This contains a set of statistical wind/temperature tables useful for the region and also many other parts of the world. I would not be without it. Wind is tabulated at 50% significance but interpolation formulae are provided to translate these into 85% significance and other values, most people would go for 85% I guess. It is an easy conversion and illustrated by worked examples.
There also used to be an excellent “Yellow Book” or Flight Information Publication, produced regularly by them, quite slim and with useful gems of information, not least being the HF Flightwatch operated by Serco on behalf of the RAF. Regularly manned by two “Jockanese” expats, as well as other dulcet tones, the great thing about their HF service was this - ALL listed frequencies were monitored, not just the ones predicted in the Yellow Book so even long path can be worked under the appropriate sunspot conditions. I guess they don’t admit to monitoring all listed frequencies in case some one person complains that they attempted an oddball frequency and nothing worked. You call them, they’ll respond, take your position and weather and let you know who is knocking about.
Besides the yellow book there is a thicker AIDU publication called SAAFE that covers the region specifically with all you need to know about aerodromes, facilities, frequencies, ASDAs etc all that stuff.
I’d advise you that http://www.ais-asecna.org/en/enr/enr3-2.htm in particular is worth a look. Just look at waypoint TITOR at 13N 18W and I can feel you shudder even at this distance. Yes. Look away, look back and the problem is still there. What lovely people they are to think that one up. North of TITOR it is Odd Northbound, Even Southbound. At TITOR the directionality changes so with a Gallic shrug at TITOR it becomes Odd Southbound and Even Northbound. This also raises issues of who does what on the dotted line AMDIB LIMAL further to the North because the EURSAM corridor is Evens North and Odds South. All of this impinges on what the USAF/RAF choose to declare as their procedures and these levels match into and out of Recife. No great earth shattering problem really but your personal antennae need to be attuned to what is going on round about you. ICAO recommends but the relevant legislatives authorities are not ICAO minded and file many differences.
Talk to ASI ops who have the best local mid-Atlantic picture via Cable & Wireless who themselves are on 00 247 6255. They can connect you.
Ascension AB will not take you no matter what you may have heard about agreements for civil traffic. Not only will the authorities imprison you but they’ll impound your aircraft. Just don’t think you can call an hour beforehand or wing it with a lame excuse. It’s a no-no-no.
Once you start to cross there are not many “all-weather” airports, GVAC I can think of, SBFN is pretty bare-arsed. FHAW you won’t get into unless you are military or diplomatic, but if you do then go tech and spend at least 5 days peak-bashing, fishing, diving, going on a hash and yes “golfing”.
Enjoy.
Be sure to have good HF and once on air be careful not to misrepresent LIMAL and LIMEL. LIMAL was formerly PLATY and is South of the Canaries whereas LIMEL is much further South twixt TITOR and AKDAK. But working the same HF, different native tongues…
Meantime visit http://www.aidu.mod.uk for a good browse. Two useful strip ERCs are available, namely AT(H)ST1 and AT(H)ST2. Not only do these show ATS routes but also dotted tracks into and out of Ascension. More later.
You can also buy from aidu on an ad hoc basis the CD disk UK Military Aeronautical Planning Document [Unclassified version]. This contains a set of statistical wind/temperature tables useful for the region and also many other parts of the world. I would not be without it. Wind is tabulated at 50% significance but interpolation formulae are provided to translate these into 85% significance and other values, most people would go for 85% I guess. It is an easy conversion and illustrated by worked examples.
There also used to be an excellent “Yellow Book” or Flight Information Publication, produced regularly by them, quite slim and with useful gems of information, not least being the HF Flightwatch operated by Serco on behalf of the RAF. Regularly manned by two “Jockanese” expats, as well as other dulcet tones, the great thing about their HF service was this - ALL listed frequencies were monitored, not just the ones predicted in the Yellow Book so even long path can be worked under the appropriate sunspot conditions. I guess they don’t admit to monitoring all listed frequencies in case some one person complains that they attempted an oddball frequency and nothing worked. You call them, they’ll respond, take your position and weather and let you know who is knocking about.
Besides the yellow book there is a thicker AIDU publication called SAAFE that covers the region specifically with all you need to know about aerodromes, facilities, frequencies, ASDAs etc all that stuff.
I’d advise you that http://www.ais-asecna.org/en/enr/enr3-2.htm in particular is worth a look. Just look at waypoint TITOR at 13N 18W and I can feel you shudder even at this distance. Yes. Look away, look back and the problem is still there. What lovely people they are to think that one up. North of TITOR it is Odd Northbound, Even Southbound. At TITOR the directionality changes so with a Gallic shrug at TITOR it becomes Odd Southbound and Even Northbound. This also raises issues of who does what on the dotted line AMDIB LIMAL further to the North because the EURSAM corridor is Evens North and Odds South. All of this impinges on what the USAF/RAF choose to declare as their procedures and these levels match into and out of Recife. No great earth shattering problem really but your personal antennae need to be attuned to what is going on round about you. ICAO recommends but the relevant legislatives authorities are not ICAO minded and file many differences.
Talk to ASI ops who have the best local mid-Atlantic picture via Cable & Wireless who themselves are on 00 247 6255. They can connect you.
Ascension AB will not take you no matter what you may have heard about agreements for civil traffic. Not only will the authorities imprison you but they’ll impound your aircraft. Just don’t think you can call an hour beforehand or wing it with a lame excuse. It’s a no-no-no.
Once you start to cross there are not many “all-weather” airports, GVAC I can think of, SBFN is pretty bare-arsed. FHAW you won’t get into unless you are military or diplomatic, but if you do then go tech and spend at least 5 days peak-bashing, fishing, diving, going on a hash and yes “golfing”.
Enjoy.
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Just a question regarding this.
As the North atlantic crossing are done by NATS are the South Atlantic Crossings done by SATS?
I don't mean NATS in National Air Traffic service but North Atlantic Tracks.
Regards,
Robbie
As the North atlantic crossing are done by NATS are the South Atlantic Crossings done by SATS?
I don't mean NATS in National Air Traffic service but North Atlantic Tracks.
Regards,
Robbie
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@ HeathrowAirport
There is no track allocation system for the south atlantic as for the NAT airspace (i.e. with tracks allocated twice each day for east- and westbound traffic).
Instead you have some 'standard airways' across the south atlantic used for both directions.
One of the reasons that you don't have a daily changing track system is - as far as I remember - that the wind conditions on the south atlantic are pretty stable - i.e. mostly calm or just light.
One of the weather phenomenon you might encounter on the south atlantic though is the ITCZ.
Regards,
DBate
Instead you have some 'standard airways' across the south atlantic used for both directions.
One of the reasons that you don't have a daily changing track system is - as far as I remember - that the wind conditions on the south atlantic are pretty stable - i.e. mostly calm or just light.
One of the weather phenomenon you might encounter on the south atlantic though is the ITCZ.
Regards,
DBate
