Fronts & sig Wx charts
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
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From: last time I looked I was still here.
Fronts & sig Wx charts
Folks, I know this topic was aired some months ago. My search technique has failed to uncover it. I can not remember how it conlcuded.
What I am interested in is who decided to remove fronts from sig Wx. charts; who authorised it as it seems to be all providers in EU; why was it thought a good idea in the first place; were the customers i.e. us the airlines consulted; and what is the overall opinion about it now after 1 year of such dilution of planning data; has anyone discussed with their C.P. and flight saftey officer and what are their opinions? What are the unions' stance?
Reason for raising this: recently, in the wide spread thunderstorm activiity in central EU, my TAF's for return sector were showing SCT -TSRA 3000'. 10k's and no W/V greater than 10kts. No real big deal as it had been CAVOK 2 hours previous. However, on arrival all hell had broken loose. Massive squall lines, torrential rain and cloud base down to 1000'. Divertion required. Was it a front, as it continued all night? No idea as the data was not there.
What would have been useful to know at the fuel planning stage:
If it was only some unstable air excited by big cities etc. then SCT sounds reasonable as our airfield is well away from any big cities. If it was boosted by frontal activity approaching then it's a whole new planning scenario.
Frontal data is also relevant when planning dscents; turbulence and airframe icing etc. This is no longer possible. We only have a guess on the Plog about shear levels and some cotton wool balls on the sig Wx. chart. What info do intercontinental crews get? Is this dumming down only an EU thing?
Please keep replies to the topic of missing frontal data and not creep off into fuel planning etc. unless you say that due to lack of data you load up tonnes of extra.
What I am interested in is who decided to remove fronts from sig Wx. charts; who authorised it as it seems to be all providers in EU; why was it thought a good idea in the first place; were the customers i.e. us the airlines consulted; and what is the overall opinion about it now after 1 year of such dilution of planning data; has anyone discussed with their C.P. and flight saftey officer and what are their opinions? What are the unions' stance?
Reason for raising this: recently, in the wide spread thunderstorm activiity in central EU, my TAF's for return sector were showing SCT -TSRA 3000'. 10k's and no W/V greater than 10kts. No real big deal as it had been CAVOK 2 hours previous. However, on arrival all hell had broken loose. Massive squall lines, torrential rain and cloud base down to 1000'. Divertion required. Was it a front, as it continued all night? No idea as the data was not there.
What would have been useful to know at the fuel planning stage:
If it was only some unstable air excited by big cities etc. then SCT sounds reasonable as our airfield is well away from any big cities. If it was boosted by frontal activity approaching then it's a whole new planning scenario.
Frontal data is also relevant when planning dscents; turbulence and airframe icing etc. This is no longer possible. We only have a guess on the Plog about shear levels and some cotton wool balls on the sig Wx. chart. What info do intercontinental crews get? Is this dumming down only an EU thing?
Please keep replies to the topic of missing frontal data and not creep off into fuel planning etc. unless you say that due to lack of data you load up tonnes of extra.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
If this relates to the significant area that moved north along a Stuttgart Amsterdam line last week, I flew through/over/round that. I guess you could ask your company to give you surface charts which should have surface fronts on, but from the shapes/line of the cells that I saw it looked like an upper trough and I'm not sure how you get sight of those? Some of the highest tops I have seen for a while here - estimated 42k+ on 30/5.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: the Tearooms of Mars
You can get frontal information, albeit from the low chart, from [The Met Office although you have to register free of charge. The French met office Meteo France also provide these charts, once again register free of charge.
There are other providers such as NOAA who link to the Met Office, but I empathise with you in that frontal information should never have been removed from SIG WX charts.
Just one more example of the increasing neglect of professional opinion by the pointy head people.
There are other providers such as NOAA who link to the Met Office, but I empathise with you in that frontal information should never have been removed from SIG WX charts.
Just one more example of the increasing neglect of professional opinion by the pointy head people.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 350
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From: ***
It's a disgrace that should be made public. Essential information is being withheld from us without any apperant reason.
Is you need a good wx chart, try these from the USAF - the best I have ever seen...
http://profi.wetteronline.de/daten/p...usaf/usaf.html
Click on "Analyse 7", wich is the most recent one.
Nic
Is you need a good wx chart, try these from the USAF - the best I have ever seen...
http://profi.wetteronline.de/daten/p...usaf/usaf.html
Click on "Analyse 7", wich is the most recent one.
Nic
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: eire
check out www.wetterzentrale.de
home page has great synopsis info. From upper left of this page select topkarten, then fax and select from bracknell, sembach (usaf example seen abvove) or a very detailed dwd wx fax.
Good info source
home page has great synopsis info. From upper left of this page select topkarten, then fax and select from bracknell, sembach (usaf example seen abvove) or a very detailed dwd wx fax.
Good info source
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 159
Likes: 9
From: Euroland
