Airline Pilots Jumping Ship in Mid Career?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 75
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airline Pilots Jumping Ship in Mid Career?
I saw something come in today from a U.S. airline pilot at one of the top three legacy airlines. He's about ready to head to greener pastures at another airline and he's in the right seat of a 777.
This is very unusual here in the states.
Is it more common for experienced people to hop from one large airline to another in other parts of the world even when the airline is not in bankruptcy?
This is very unusual here in the states.
Is it more common for experienced people to hop from one large airline to another in other parts of the world even when the airline is not in bankruptcy?
Before jumping,do lots of homework. I'm sure there are many Co's out there who aren't great.
Better the devil you know in many cases(the roster isn't half as good as it first appeared from afar,the seniority system sux/their isn't one,staff travel isn't as good as it first appeared,extra leave for family commitments is not avble etc,etc,etc)
If all the boxes are ticked then do make the change.
When employees vote with their feet the conditions at the low end of the scale will be raised,benefiting all in the long run.
Good Luck to those cosidering the change
Better the devil you know in many cases(the roster isn't half as good as it first appeared from afar,the seniority system sux/their isn't one,staff travel isn't as good as it first appeared,extra leave for family commitments is not avble etc,etc,etc)
If all the boxes are ticked then do make the change.
When employees vote with their feet the conditions at the low end of the scale will be raised,benefiting all in the long run.
Good Luck to those cosidering the change
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take the U.S. retirement and go fly different routes in different parts of the world.
It's getting more common. We've had double digit figures leave our large U.S. carrier in the last couple of years.
It's getting more common. We've had double digit figures leave our large U.S. carrier in the last couple of years.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: EastCoast
Age: 74
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All that "greenslopes" says is very true.
"When employees vote with their feet the conditions at the low end of the scale will be raised,benefiting all in the long run."
The ones who benefit when others vote with their feet, are the ones who stay back. Many of your colleagues who encourage you to go are insincere, because they are the ones who will gain from your leaving. Those who have left and are leaving will also encourage you to go with them - most of such are also insincere, because they have been very bitter with their old co. and want you to add to their vote to prove their sour opinions.
Be very careful, do not decide with your heart, decide with your head; and use the correct head to think.
"When employees vote with their feet the conditions at the low end of the scale will be raised,benefiting all in the long run."
The ones who benefit when others vote with their feet, are the ones who stay back. Many of your colleagues who encourage you to go are insincere, because they are the ones who will gain from your leaving. Those who have left and are leaving will also encourage you to go with them - most of such are also insincere, because they have been very bitter with their old co. and want you to add to their vote to prove their sour opinions.
Be very careful, do not decide with your heart, decide with your head; and use the correct head to think.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 75
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airline Pilot Career Jump
I got the impression that the pilot who posted to the blog that got me thinking about this was thinking very much like you folks.
I didn't get the impression he really wants to leave. I think he's really struggling with trying to make sure he doesn't stay before something else happens to affect his future earning potential.
The guy has a couple of young kids and a wife, he's watched his retirement completely disappear and then he has what we've all seen, management that treats him like dirt.
I don't know what I'd do in his position, but the comments about the folks that are left is something that never crossed my mind. I'll be sure and pass it on to him.
Maybe it just isn't any fun anymore either. That's some of what I picked up on when I spoke to him.
I didn't get the impression he really wants to leave. I think he's really struggling with trying to make sure he doesn't stay before something else happens to affect his future earning potential.
The guy has a couple of young kids and a wife, he's watched his retirement completely disappear and then he has what we've all seen, management that treats him like dirt.
I don't know what I'd do in his position, but the comments about the folks that are left is something that never crossed my mind. I'll be sure and pass it on to him.
Maybe it just isn't any fun anymore either. That's some of what I picked up on when I spoke to him.
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
1 Post
Greenslopes speaks the truth:
I agree with every statement, having jumped around all my life and having logged 19 flying-jobs including the worlds smallest airline and the worlds biggest and many in between.
A senior captain would do just fine jumping ship @ 57 with his lump-sum retirement of $3.5 mil, then hauling B-777s for some Middle East or Indian airline for $12K a month tax-free with housing and per-diem benefits inclduing sweet stuff on the road no questions asked.
When that gets old, then go fishing and golfing..
Just get out of my seat so I can move up a notch...
I agree with every statement, having jumped around all my life and having logged 19 flying-jobs including the worlds smallest airline and the worlds biggest and many in between.
A senior captain would do just fine jumping ship @ 57 with his lump-sum retirement of $3.5 mil, then hauling B-777s for some Middle East or Indian airline for $12K a month tax-free with housing and per-diem benefits inclduing sweet stuff on the road no questions asked.
When that gets old, then go fishing and golfing..
Just get out of my seat so I can move up a notch...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone like that would only move to the ME where Americans are well loved. Good luck to him, I think he's making a BIG mistake, no unions to help and if you're not up to it......
The greener pastures are there because there's more crap on the ground!!
The greener pastures are there because there's more crap on the ground!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure as hell ain't no grass greener than a $3.5M retirement - or is that a "slight" exaggeration? My airline (biggest/2nd biggest in Eu) you'd get about £20,000pa if you started at 18 and survived until 65.
TD, guess there must be lots of one-aeroplane airlines around, but what did you fly in Aeroflot? Pretty unusual for an American, that!
TD, guess there must be lots of one-aeroplane airlines around, but what did you fly in Aeroflot? Pretty unusual for an American, that!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver.CO
Age: 67
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Caution Will Robinson
Jetwhine lets face it job advancement opportunities at the big UAL have gone down the crapper since our All knowing ALPA let the pensions go and their answer is to let you guys hang around for another 5 years. Lets agree it will take a chunk of C4 to blow you out of that seat. So much for enthusiasm.
Despite all that being said does he think it will be better hauling the family over to DBX and working with Emirates or commuting to Mumbai?
Greener pastures are not always what they seem. In the meantime he should just try to suck it up and let the great 570 lead this dysfunctional outfit into the next millinium.
Despite all that being said does he think it will be better hauling the family over to DBX and working with Emirates or commuting to Mumbai?
Greener pastures are not always what they seem. In the meantime he should just try to suck it up and let the great 570 lead this dysfunctional outfit into the next millinium.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The lack of labour mobility is the biggest impediment to increased compensation for pilots. The reason we have to use union/protectionist strategies for increasing terms and conditions is because there is no other alternative. If we could change companies and retain or increase our pay level then people would be able to follow the money and not be stuck in a crappy company that's getting flushed down the toilet by management. Presently it is taken as given that the pilots will stick around, no matter what happens...in fact something like taking pensions away actually forces loyalty upon them!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Age: 85
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Corporate?
Huck said:-
"If I needed another job I'd go fly corporate. There's a pilot's market right now."
Before you do, research what other ppruners have said about corporate flying. It is not a bed of roses.
"If I needed another job I'd go fly corporate. There's a pilot's market right now."
Before you do, research what other ppruners have said about corporate flying. It is not a bed of roses.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ft, Lauderdale,FL
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agaricus Bisporus.
I can confirm What Tower Dog said in his thread sice we work for the same company(not Aeroflot). A 33 year captain with our airline will walk with about 3.5-4 million dollars. Not that we will see any of it when we retire. What is sickening is that these old buggers are sticking around past 60 because they don't have a life outside of a 777 cockpit.
I can confirm What Tower Dog said in his thread sice we work for the same company(not Aeroflot). A 33 year captain with our airline will walk with about 3.5-4 million dollars. Not that we will see any of it when we retire. What is sickening is that these old buggers are sticking around past 60 because they don't have a life outside of a 777 cockpit.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: florida
Age: 40
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is not a game anymore
Hah!!! it doesn't impress me what my eyes have seen in this industry anymore. I fly for a mayor carrier in the states and the way that things have been developing for the past months are just going waaaaay south......
-Why do u guys think that 149 captains retired the past February in the American Airlines 777 and 767 fleet? Answer......??? Management
the just treat us like ****, doesnt matter the airline, where u are at, its all the same B.S. I really dont whish what we are going trough, but im very lucky bc i have dual ciycenship and im going to europe to continue with my career, but there is a big problem here in the states with aviation, but the biggest problem is the people that u work for called MANAGEMENt. When u work harder, to take those flights on time, etc....the harder they smash u latter in some stupid thing that its probably not ur fault.
Again A.A. Management got 18 million bonus due to their great profit year. Those 18 mil, where divided in about 25 people, u guys make the math.... and obviously LABOUR (Pilots, Manteinance, FA, etc..) dont get a single penny back of the 35% paycut they've got since 9/11.
Im not trying to prove anything or try to create a conflict, i just speek bc there is a problem here and the guys up there dont seem to do anything.
Good flight to everybody
-Why do u guys think that 149 captains retired the past February in the American Airlines 777 and 767 fleet? Answer......??? Management
the just treat us like ****, doesnt matter the airline, where u are at, its all the same B.S. I really dont whish what we are going trough, but im very lucky bc i have dual ciycenship and im going to europe to continue with my career, but there is a big problem here in the states with aviation, but the biggest problem is the people that u work for called MANAGEMENt. When u work harder, to take those flights on time, etc....the harder they smash u latter in some stupid thing that its probably not ur fault.
Again A.A. Management got 18 million bonus due to their great profit year. Those 18 mil, where divided in about 25 people, u guys make the math.... and obviously LABOUR (Pilots, Manteinance, FA, etc..) dont get a single penny back of the 35% paycut they've got since 9/11.
Im not trying to prove anything or try to create a conflict, i just speek bc there is a problem here and the guys up there dont seem to do anything.
Good flight to everybody
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: florida
Age: 40
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One More Thing..
Thoose guys that retire before they are suposed to....its bc when an airline declares chapter 11 (bankrupcy), if u dont have a 401k or similar, the first money that the airline uses to get out of chapter 11 is the money that uve been saving for years and years, yes ur pension... If u dont belive me, ask the Northwest mechanic that has been working for 35 years for the company and when This airline went bankrupt they took all his pension away with many others that didnt protect their money. Hah!!!! Bastards....
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St. Charles, Missouri, USA
Age: 76
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lumpsumus Exaggeramus
The only thing more exaggerated than the size of one's dong (a Chinese musical instrument) is the size of some other guy's (or girl's) lump sum payout and what can be done with it. Take an American Airlines guy at 60 with a $4m lumpsum..properly invested for inflation it would pay a fully taxable $160k for life...years from social security or medicare..and if American, who make no secret at all about BANKRUPTCY as a management tool (there's that dong again), carry it out...no retiree medical, etc., etc., and IF the PBGC get pulled into it (count on it)...they will retrotactively go after a big chunk of that lump sum (up to three year lookback). Hillary or Barrack will help themselves to the rest. Keep Your Seat.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Chapel Hill,NC, USA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jumping ship
Despite what opportunities some lucky few might have to take huge retirement payouts (mighty few, it would seem) and then jump ship, I know of one currently employed Delta pilot who would have jumped ship with no retirement payout to join Southwest. Unfortunately, they didn't take him (not enough of a cowboy, apparently).
The mere fact that a nine-year Delta pilot would seriously consider starting at the bottom at Southwest speaks volumes about the state of the industry.
The mere fact that a nine-year Delta pilot would seriously consider starting at the bottom at Southwest speaks volumes about the state of the industry.
Specific to a 9 year DAL jumping ship, I'd attribute much of it fear. Looking north from ATL to MSP and seeing a nightmare scenario on the horizon. The right seat of a guppy pushing a $100/hr by year three doesn't sound so bad.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very interesting thread. I've been twenty years in aviation and suddenly it just isn't fun any more. I'm currently left seat B744 flying freight between Europe, ME and Asia. I work nights, spend days and weeks on end in hotels, and see my family on Skype. I'm exposed to an endless string of roster changes that adds to the fatigue. This isn't life.
The only nice thing is the great guys I fly with, but more often than not, we are on different patterns, and it's back to "table for one" in a hotel restaurant or room service watching CNN.
I'm seriously considering throwing in the towel and doing something completely different outside aviation.
From a hotel somewhere in Europe, body wants to go to sleep, time to check in for an 11 hour duty.
Happy landings to all.
The only nice thing is the great guys I fly with, but more often than not, we are on different patterns, and it's back to "table for one" in a hotel restaurant or room service watching CNN.
I'm seriously considering throwing in the towel and doing something completely different outside aviation.
From a hotel somewhere in Europe, body wants to go to sleep, time to check in for an 11 hour duty.
Happy landings to all.
