Captain's signature in Logbook for PICUS time - is this really necessary?

[ChocksAwayUK]

So when I give my logbook to the CAA in a couple of years to unfreeze my ATPL will they ignore it unless I track down all the Captains I've flown with and get them to sign all my PF/PICUS/P1 entries? Are we not to be trusted?

Anyone with any experience in this matter? Do the CAA insist on this? Or perhaps there may be some kind of authorisation from my airline who have records of Journey Logs etc, signed by the Captain?

[el dorado]

The Chief Pilot of each company you were with can sign your logbook on behalf of the captains. If you've spent all your time with one company then this should be easy. It's his/her job to make sure that your entries are correct (read realistic). Bearing in mind that flight records are not retained for ever this would be difficult to check as time goes by. Just don't go to the CAA aged 23 claiming 5,000 hours on jets. They might notice.

[parabellum]

Sadly Chocks, you have hit it on the head, just a very few of your number are not to be trusted.

I was once called into the office to explain why I had let myself run out of landing currency, (one every 28 days, B747-400 operation). I protested my innocence, got out my log book and showed I had at least two landings within the required time. Turned out the FO had waited until I had signed off on the Voyage Report and then altered the PF, PNF columns to enhance his experience.

In your case I imagine, if necessary at all, the company stamp and a CP signature confirming the accuracy of your log book will be all that is required.

[ChocksAwayUK]

Thanks very much both, most helpful.

[Ropey Pilot]

I've just handed my logbooks in to the CAA with no signatures (the last half is a hardcopy of my e-logbook, so v. difficult to get Capts to sign).

I've asked the question of a few of my colleagues and the consensus seems to be that if you work for a reasonable sized commercial company they will have an idea of your expected hours and as long as you aren't cutting it too fine they don't have a problem.

If you are trying to upgrade with 1500.1 hours they might want to check a bit deeper.

I'll let you know how I get on...

[ChocksAwayUK]

Thanks, Ropey - but that does sound a bit sensible and straightforward for the CAA! Let me know if you have any probs.

[Brian Fantana]

I was in the same situation a couple of years ago.
I had capts signatures for some of my p1s time but not all of it - probably 75% had signed my book.
Sent off my logbook along with a huge cheque 2 weeks later a nice shiny green licence turns up.

[Sid Starz]

I also didn't get any P1/s entries signed, also as previously mentioned, these days with computerised logbooks it might be a tad difficult.

I am not sure if this is still an official requirement from the CAA?

[Molokai]

For the old logbooks it is always wise to get the skippers to sign off your P1 U/s times. For electronic logs, note in the Capt's licence & ID no.s. Saves lots of headaches later.

[Sid Starz]

That may be the case but during four years in the left seat, only once has an FO wanted a signature... I didn't get mine signed and no-one has pulled me up yet, nor have I heard of anyone having problems with a lack of signatures.

[Ropey Pilot]

Got a call from CAA man today saying I hadn't got enough signatures (I probably have about 30 - from my first month or so flying commerically_

Luckily I had arranged a letter from my previous company to say the hours flown with them were correct - and that was enough to take me over the minimum without needing a letter from my current company.

Guess it depends who takes your 'case' - maybe previous posters were lucky or maybe I was unlucky - but over 2500 hours without signatures can still cause a problem it seems

[IRRenewal]

JAR-FCL says with regards to P.1 time for ATPL issue:

((i) 500 hours as pilot-in-command under supervision;
or
(ii) 250 hours either as pilot-in-command;
or
(iii) 250 hours made up by at least 70 hours as pilot-in-command and the necessary additional flight time as pilot-in-command under supervision;

If you have 250 hours proper p.1 (maybe been instructing or so?) you won't need any P.1/s hours countersigned, as they are not required for license issue. They just count towards your total flight time just as dual and P.2 time.

If you are relying on your P.1/s time to get an ATPL issued you will either need your logbook signed or get a letter from your company (it seems the UK CAA at least are willing to accept this).

Hope this helps.

[underread east]

Had similar discussions with colleagues, some get capt to sign, some don't. LASORs says either signed by PIC OR letter from company. Spoke to CAA too, who confirm this - as you would expect....

[inner]

1: Do you know if spic hours are also considered as pic for your 250h pic?

2: I need extra 100h pic. So i can just ask my captain to sign my book and that's it?

grtz

[ABO944]

Hi guys 'n gals !

I am just about to "unfreeze" my ATPL in the UK.

I have a letter from my previous company confirming over 1000 hours of time on type are correct, but was wondering about my hours building a few years previous. It was done abroad (much cheaper) but I didn't get anything signed off in my logbook. Is this going to be a problem do you think ? Must be around 100 hours worth!

Cheers,

[Max Angle]

Actually any time you log as P1 U/S needs to be signed by the actual P1 both before and after your ATPL issue. No one bothers afterwards but strictly speaking P1 U/S can only be logged with the agreement of the Captain.

[ABO944]

So I guess for when I was building up experience and logging my hours .... they were P1 anyway .... no need for any signatures or confirmation from the flight school I hired the a/c from ??

[underread east]

Spoke to CAA directly last year on same issue. NO need for captain to countersign (half of those in my logbook had already moved on, so nigh on impossible to get in retrospect), as mentioned above, a letter from Chief Pilot confirming hours with company is sufficient for license issue - assuming you actually meet the requirements ;-)

[Sky Wave]

Why not just read lasors.

Section G1 (ATPL)

The 1500 hours flying experience may comprise flight
time in any of the following capacities:
• as Pilot-in-Command/Solo (PIC), counted in full;
• as Pilot-under-Instruction (Dual), counted in full;
• as Co-Pilot performing under the supervision of
the Pilot-in-Command the functions and duties of
a Pilot-in-Command (PIC U/S) counted in full. For
licence issue, confirmation of such flight time will be
required. This can either take the form of a letter from
the operating company or certification of each flight
within the pilot’s logbook by the Pilot-in-Command.
• as Co-Pilot (P2), counted in full;