IFR departures always requires a SID?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Azores
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFR departures always requires a SID?
I'm writing a report for a local newspaper in Portugal about a local airport, which just had its lighting system certificated, and are claming they can receive night traffic. In Portugal you can't fly VFR at night, so you will need an IFR departure. I know in radar control you normally are given an instruction to fly direct a certain point just after departure, but then I assume the controller is taking responsibility for separation from terrain and other traffic and the clearance normally includes a SID. But what about conventional control, don't you need to follow a SID to be sure you are going to clear all obstacles in an IFR departure?
Basically my question is: Does an airport need to have a SID published in order for an airplane to take off under IMC?
Because if you depart in VMC you can maintain your own separation with terrain, but in IMC don't you need assurance that you will be flying an obstacle free path until reaching the MSA or MEA?
Tanks in advance
Best regards
Rui Medeiros
Basically my question is: Does an airport need to have a SID published in order for an airplane to take off under IMC?
Because if you depart in VMC you can maintain your own separation with terrain, but in IMC don't you need assurance that you will be flying an obstacle free path until reaching the MSA or MEA?
Tanks in advance
Best regards
Rui Medeiros
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Azores
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After your answer I tried some more research about IFR departures and I found the following:
"Where a Normal Departure Procedure can be used, obstacle and terrain clearance is assured provided the pilot conducts his departure in the following manor:
Cross the departure end of the runway out of at least 35 feet Above Ground Level (AGL)
Climbs to at least 400 Above Aerodrome Elevation (AAE) before making any turn
A climb gradient of at least 200 feet per nautical mile is maintained until reaching the minimum IFR altitude for en route operations
There are many cases where this kind of departure procedure cannot be accomodated. We'll look at some examples of each below and how and where they're normally published."
At Pico, at least departing from rwy 27 you would need a climb gradient of roughly 277 feet per nautical mile to clear the biggest obstacle. So we can’t have a normal departure. Under VFR I assume there's no problem, but what about IFR, do we need a published departure or not? I guess that's the real question, since SID's can incorporate obstacle clearances as well.
"Where a Normal Departure Procedure can be used, obstacle and terrain clearance is assured provided the pilot conducts his departure in the following manor:
Cross the departure end of the runway out of at least 35 feet Above Ground Level (AGL)
Climbs to at least 400 Above Aerodrome Elevation (AAE) before making any turn
A climb gradient of at least 200 feet per nautical mile is maintained until reaching the minimum IFR altitude for en route operations
There are many cases where this kind of departure procedure cannot be accomodated. We'll look at some examples of each below and how and where they're normally published."
At Pico, at least departing from rwy 27 you would need a climb gradient of roughly 277 feet per nautical mile to clear the biggest obstacle. So we can’t have a normal departure. Under VFR I assume there's no problem, but what about IFR, do we need a published departure or not? I guess that's the real question, since SID's can incorporate obstacle clearances as well.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, you wouldn't necessarily need a SID. You would probably have published minimum climb gradients, however, which the operator would need to verify that they can achieve. There are many, many major airports that have no defined low-level departure routings, though they may have SIDs that define later stages of the climb and transition to en-route airspace.
Scroggs
Scroggs
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Up, up and away
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least in the UK, you need controlled airspace in order to have a SID. If you're not in controlled airspace, as described above, min. climb gradients would be notified.