Who reads notams?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: London
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who reads notams?
Let's be honest folks, who reads EVERY line and all the details regarding your departure, destinaton an alternate airports NOTAMS before departing?
Surely there is a case for prioritising the crap that is so often contained, and that makes the job of reading it so time consuminng. Who the fk cares if a taxi way is blocked, whether they have moved the de -icing pad, or even if the ground frequency has changed - all of that will become obvious once you land or ask to taxi - what's more important are factors that WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT - and my point is that these should be HIGHLIGHTED rather than hidden in the small print.
Surely a system of proiritising the RELAVENCE of the information should be devised. Your thoughts appreciated - or am I the only dummy who cannot sort the chaf from the wheat?
Surely there is a case for prioritising the crap that is so often contained, and that makes the job of reading it so time consuminng. Who the fk cares if a taxi way is blocked, whether they have moved the de -icing pad, or even if the ground frequency has changed - all of that will become obvious once you land or ask to taxi - what's more important are factors that WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT - and my point is that these should be HIGHLIGHTED rather than hidden in the small print.
Surely a system of proiritising the RELAVENCE of the information should be devised. Your thoughts appreciated - or am I the only dummy who cannot sort the chaf from the wheat?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotchland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think you should forget about NOTAMs and go back to basic airmanship.
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat.......
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat.......
Think you should forget about NOTAMs and go back to basic airmanship.
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat.......
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat.......
So you haven't seen the longer international flights then?
You can very easily have 20 - 30 pages of notams, and to go through them all to determine what is relevent and what is not would take literally hours.
It's just not practical.
ATC has a vote in this issue--and they post NOTAMs on the ATIS. Most have rather arcane information that owes more to lawyers than pilots.
GF
GF
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 64
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's What your paid for!!
If you don't do the deed the deed will have you. surely you need to do something to justify your job. the rest is easy!!!!!
I think this post is a wind up
I think this post is a wind up
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm second to 18-Wheeler on that. Let alone long haul. Even medium haul or cross-Europe flights passing many FIRs are associated with dozen(s) pages printout. If you really start to study all of it you need to report for a duty a couple of hours in advance.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QUOTE "Think you should forget about NOTAMs and go back to basic airmanship.
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat......."QUOTE
Speedalive.... I agree in principal with your argument. There is a lot of rubbish much of which demands unnecessary attention, Aviation needs to be about clarity and pertinence. I wouldnt pay any attention to the the statement by 'Eejit'... Where I come from it would be a case of Eejit by name Eejit by nature.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit
NOTAMs by there very definition are relevant information.
There is no small print, it's all the same size.
If you can't take the time to read through several lines of information, some of which might have a serious effect on your proposed flight, you probably shouldn't bother continuing to the flightdeck.
So yes, you are the only dummy who can't sort the chaf(f) from the wheat......."QUOTE
Speedalive.... I agree in principal with your argument. There is a lot of rubbish much of which demands unnecessary attention, Aviation needs to be about clarity and pertinence. I wouldnt pay any attention to the the statement by 'Eejit'... Where I come from it would be a case of Eejit by name Eejit by nature.
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Scotchland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
haha,
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit
Bet you read that more thoroughly than a NOTAM!!!!
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eejit
Bet you read that more thoroughly than a NOTAM!!!!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you work for a proper airline they probably already filter your Notams. But even at that there might be dozens of pages covering Departure point, Destination, several destination Alternates, plus a dozen or more en-route alternates and the FIR Notams too.
Nobody can possibly read them all pre-flight, and expect to take them in.
A typical pre-flight (short haul) might be 45 minutes, 25 minutes of which is probably required for getting out to the a/c and cockpit setup. So, allowing say 15 minutes for weather and Flight Plan checks, fuel decisions, Jeppesen check, company bulletins etc - that leaves about 5 minutes to read twenty or thirty pages of Notams?
Bull****.
Does 'eejit' really read the height of every crane within 5 miles of the en-route alternates (which he may never have visited) and immediately grasp the significance of their impact on the approach/departure procedures without greater study?
No way.
We all know that if we checked every piece of paper thrown at us we'd never get airborne. In fact - haven't certain pilots unions used that as a 'go-slow' in industrial actions?
Nobody can possibly read them all pre-flight, and expect to take them in.
A typical pre-flight (short haul) might be 45 minutes, 25 minutes of which is probably required for getting out to the a/c and cockpit setup. So, allowing say 15 minutes for weather and Flight Plan checks, fuel decisions, Jeppesen check, company bulletins etc - that leaves about 5 minutes to read twenty or thirty pages of Notams?
Bull****.
Does 'eejit' really read the height of every crane within 5 miles of the en-route alternates (which he may never have visited) and immediately grasp the significance of their impact on the approach/departure procedures without greater study?
No way.
We all know that if we checked every piece of paper thrown at us we'd never get airborne. In fact - haven't certain pilots unions used that as a 'go-slow' in industrial actions?
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: in da 'pit
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maxalt is right, its a totally impractical system, and sometimes the important stuff is buried in the depths of taxiway light u/s, and mast 5 nm off approach path standing 20ft. Plus in certain parts of the world they are not updated so alot of it is completely irrelevant.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SYD
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where I work, the NOTAMs are prioritized automatically by a computer system and then checked manually before briefing docs are printed. Then, when preparing the briefing it's up to me (the flight ops/dispatcher) to go through and additionally highlight the really relevant (or new) stuff.
I've briefed crew on NOTAMs in a few seconds flat.
But then again, they have to have something to do during that long boring cruise: Test each other on the irrelevant NOTAMs! 
I've briefed crew on NOTAMs in a few seconds flat.
But then again, they have to have something to do during that long boring cruise: Test each other on the irrelevant NOTAMs!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: essex
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NOTAMS are generally available the day before the flight and it is not too onerous to scan through and spot relevant items
I do agree though that there is a lot of stuff that is permanently notamed such as kite flying at kite hill etc, I say lets have a cull of the permanent and minor irrelevant stuff to get rid of the cr@p
I do agree though that there is a lot of stuff that is permanently notamed such as kite flying at kite hill etc, I say lets have a cull of the permanent and minor irrelevant stuff to get rid of the cr@p
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: EDDFVnavZBAA
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"NOTAMs are created and transmitted by gov under guidelines specified by AIS of the ICCA. A NOTAM is filed with an aviation authority to alert Airmens....." If you donīt read NOTAMs you might pass that you some day could be the target of somebody else. Better read
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now you're getting to the point.
Its basically an ass-covering exercise by the authorities.
But hey, thats why they pay you 'big bucks'
- so they have someone to blame when the **** hits the fan.
HE DIDN'T READ THE NOTAMs!! HIS FAULT.........
Its basically an ass-covering exercise by the authorities.
But hey, thats why they pay you 'big bucks'
- so they have someone to blame when the **** hits the fan.HE DIDN'T READ THE NOTAMs!! HIS FAULT.........
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hardly ever actually read the NOTAMS.
The First officer does this little chore and advises me what is important for the planned flight.
After all, isn't that what the First Officer is for?
Now, if he's a good chap, he gets his choice of which leg to fly...sometimes I give 'em all away....especially if he agrees to do the HF as well.
The First officer does this little chore and advises me what is important for the planned flight.
After all, isn't that what the First Officer is for?
Now, if he's a good chap, he gets his choice of which leg to fly...sometimes I give 'em all away....especially if he agrees to do the HF as well.