RYR, don't you weather brief before flight?
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RYR, don't you weather brief before flight?
Happened yesterday to cross Switzerland on a private flight. While listening to Zurich Information, 124.7, heard many requests from RYR flights for (mainly northern Italy) "latest wx reports for xxxx and xxxx and xxxx"
While I agree that having the latest wx when critical permits better planning, I don't understand the urge to constantly call in when conditions are good.
Or is it that RYR is charged for weather briefs at its home bases
While I agree that having the latest wx when critical permits better planning, I don't understand the urge to constantly call in when conditions are good.
Or is it that RYR is charged for weather briefs at its home bases
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Ever tried to get wx for turin when you are on the other side of the alps?? pretty hard, also Pisa is a RYR base, last i was there you couldn't get a ATIS and therefore ask ATC.
And pray what is wrong with calling the FIS to get essential weather information? I say full marks to these pilots for having the awareness to ask for this information in a timely and correct manner. If at the flight planning stage the weather at destination and/or alternate(s) is marginal then it is surely GOOD airmanship to ask for an update whilst enroute!
The FIS channel is the CORRECT method to get this information when beyond range of the ATIS rather than attempting to call on the Approach frequency when cruising at circa 35,000 ft and causing interference to other units on the same frequency.
The situation is more a reflection on the archaic VOLMET system which exists and the non-availibility of so called "minor" airports on the system and has little to do with the particular company that is asking for the information.
The FIS channel is the CORRECT method to get this information when beyond range of the ATIS rather than attempting to call on the Approach frequency when cruising at circa 35,000 ft and causing interference to other units on the same frequency.
The situation is more a reflection on the archaic VOLMET system which exists and the non-availibility of so called "minor" airports on the system and has little to do with the particular company that is asking for the information.
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It's simply crew requiring wx info for their destination so they can brief the arrival in a timely manner. As has been said by fireflybob it has more to do with the volmet system than anything else. No point bashing RYR, my airline does the same thing. I've never done a CIA without obtaining the latest wx from Zurich. I don't care if it's CAVOK the latest wx is still required for consideration and Zurich is the most effective way of obtaining it for most northern Italian destinations.
I was wondering why arent RYR pilots getting WX information via ACARS or another data link. I thought flight information frequencies are mainly for VFR flights and not for airlines requesting WX information. 
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I was wondering why arent RYR pilots getting WX information via ACARS or another data link. I thought flight information frequencies are mainly for VFR flights and not for airlines requesting WX information.
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Thanks for all you replies gals & guys. And while some of you seem to be quite touchy (
) believe me, there was not the slightest idea of FR or anybody else bashing.
Still I don't really get the idea. Maybe one could better save everybody's time on a clear nice and sunny day by concentrating on more serious tasks
If you do proper planning, you will, before taking off, check the latest destination and, if applicable, enroute alternates and destination alternates wx. Part of the fuel required will be based on those METARs and TAFs. Splendid wx (I spare you the details of the requirements) with multiple runways allow planning without alternate, while one is required when the field is open, or two if the field is closed. Most of the time, having checked the wind direction, the NOTAMs, using your knowledge of the field will give you the landing direction.
Now, let's admit your are flying from say any London airport to Venice, northern Italy. While at the planning stage WX was CAT I, calling up any (Swiss or French, who cares) AFIS reveals the WX is now CAT III. What will you do? Turn back? Land to refuel? No my friend, nothing else but contine towards destination hoping the fuel you are carrying will permit some holding before diversion is necessary.
Oh well, who cares in 50 years
) believe me, there was not the slightest idea of FR or anybody else bashing.Still I don't really get the idea. Maybe one could better save everybody's time on a clear nice and sunny day by concentrating on more serious tasks
If you do proper planning, you will, before taking off, check the latest destination and, if applicable, enroute alternates and destination alternates wx. Part of the fuel required will be based on those METARs and TAFs. Splendid wx (I spare you the details of the requirements) with multiple runways allow planning without alternate, while one is required when the field is open, or two if the field is closed. Most of the time, having checked the wind direction, the NOTAMs, using your knowledge of the field will give you the landing direction.
Now, let's admit your are flying from say any London airport to Venice, northern Italy. While at the planning stage WX was CAT I, calling up any (Swiss or French, who cares) AFIS reveals the WX is now CAT III. What will you do? Turn back? Land to refuel? No my friend, nothing else but contine towards destination hoping the fuel you are carrying will permit some holding before diversion is necessary.
Oh well, who cares in 50 years
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The London FIS has all the weather information for all the major and minor European airfields at the touch of a button and is far quicker and with greater clarity than Volmet. Commercial air transport are equally welcome as GA flyers.
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Not a big RYR fan personally, however there does seem to be a bit of unnecessary bashing going on. I fly 737s as well, some with and some without ACARS. Invariably, the day you need it most is the day you end up on one without it fitted. Hence Volmets, FIS, etc.
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The situation above I can understand, and a perfectly valid use of resources.
What gets my goat though, is when FR use Manch radar to constantly ask for the RVR at Liverpool when LPL has not only ATIS but a perfectly good tower frequency. Has Mickey Mouth taken out box 2 to save a few pennies?
And if you carried enough fuel for a bit of holding, perhaps it wouldn't become quite so critical when you're asked to take up the hold when surprise, surprise, the wx turns out to be exactly as forecast at your destination.
What gets my goat though, is when FR use Manch radar to constantly ask for the RVR at Liverpool when LPL has not only ATIS but a perfectly good tower frequency. Has Mickey Mouth taken out box 2 to save a few pennies?
And if you carried enough fuel for a bit of holding, perhaps it wouldn't become quite so critical when you're asked to take up the hold when surprise, surprise, the wx turns out to be exactly as forecast at your destination.
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Well you just seem to know it all don't you?
1/ Mostly Ryanair will be tanking outbound so in all probability there is no immediate fuel consideration.
2/ Weather forecasts are sometimes wrong so getting confirmation of destination weather is usually good airmanship.
3/If a Cat3 approach is required it requires a monitored approach which may change the original plan.(Training requirements for example)
4/Ryanair go to many destinations where there is no ATIS or Volmet.
5/ Maybe they are asking Manchester because the ATIS isn't kept up to date frequently enough and nobody's talking on LPL twr? Asking LPL for RVR's directly blots out some other VHF frequency.
I work for Ryanair and although it has aspects which many including myself find unsavoury it is also subject to some of the most ridiculous bullsh*t!
1/ Mostly Ryanair will be tanking outbound so in all probability there is no immediate fuel consideration.
2/ Weather forecasts are sometimes wrong so getting confirmation of destination weather is usually good airmanship.
3/If a Cat3 approach is required it requires a monitored approach which may change the original plan.(Training requirements for example)
4/Ryanair go to many destinations where there is no ATIS or Volmet.
5/ Maybe they are asking Manchester because the ATIS isn't kept up to date frequently enough and nobody's talking on LPL twr? Asking LPL for RVR's directly blots out some other VHF frequency.
I work for Ryanair and although it has aspects which many including myself find unsavoury it is also subject to some of the most ridiculous bullsh*t!
Last edited by Stan Woolley; 6th Feb 2007 at 12:50.
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I thought flight information frequencies are mainly for VFR flights and not for airlines requesting WX information.
With the various technologies at our disposal it's used less by the airlines, but as mentioned above, if the airport has no atis or if terrain is an issue then Flight info is the easiest way of getting the job done.
