Youngest 747 captain ?
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Didn't the Sultan of Brunei fly LHS on his private 747SP for a while? I doubt it's the same as an airline type ticket for the purposes of this thread but he was pretty young when flying his own metal
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c'mon you guys flying the 4 engined behemoth... do us a favor and tell all the punters here that the 747 is the easiest aircraft to fly and land, so were's the big deal 
(another of those biggest, youngest or best American bedstories
)
(another of those biggest, youngest or best American bedstories
)
The question might be, does a very young age and a quite superb ability to process and learn aviation data create the best ability to fly as 747 Captain?
Or does the size of the aircraft and its image also motivate the youngest and best pilots who have a burning desire, to check out as 747 or 1011, DC-10/MD-11 Captain?
Airline managements have for many decades exploited pilots by using the impressive widebody-jet type-rating as a lure to motivate pilots (young and single?) to ignore market forces in order to have the credential on their resume/CV. Maybe it is the ultimate "Chick-Magnet"?
The First Officer on my last trip said that he would have been a 'twenty-something' 747 Captain, had he remained with his previous company-SAT. He also flew the A-300 as FO.
During a push-back about a week ago, he was astute enough, perhaps with a finely-honed sixth sense survival instinct, to suspiciously look at the right wing, and notice/check that the refueling panel door was hanging open.
He said to me "Stop the push-back". This was a first for me as Captain.
He asked the Wing-Walker whether everything looked normal. The Wingwalker said "yes"-even with the door open! (He had previously been a fueler at the FBO).
Does this result of "outsourcing" have your attention?
Well, he told me that at one of our largest HUB AIRPORTS, a de-icing crew had de-iced one wing-but NOT the OTHER WING.
Interesting? Who noticed and notified the c0ckp1t ?
Passengers and crew, if this is true, might soon die if nothing changes.
He told me that heard this first hand from one of the two pilots who was there. Unrestrained (barely regulated) American capitalism at its best...
Or does the size of the aircraft and its image also motivate the youngest and best pilots who have a burning desire, to check out as 747 or 1011, DC-10/MD-11 Captain?
Airline managements have for many decades exploited pilots by using the impressive widebody-jet type-rating as a lure to motivate pilots (young and single?) to ignore market forces in order to have the credential on their resume/CV. Maybe it is the ultimate "Chick-Magnet"?
The First Officer on my last trip said that he would have been a 'twenty-something' 747 Captain, had he remained with his previous company-SAT. He also flew the A-300 as FO.
During a push-back about a week ago, he was astute enough, perhaps with a finely-honed sixth sense survival instinct, to suspiciously look at the right wing, and notice/check that the refueling panel door was hanging open.
He said to me "Stop the push-back". This was a first for me as Captain.
He asked the Wing-Walker whether everything looked normal. The Wingwalker said "yes"-even with the door open! (He had previously been a fueler at the FBO).
Does this result of "outsourcing" have your attention?
Well, he told me that at one of our largest HUB AIRPORTS, a de-icing crew had de-iced one wing-but NOT the OTHER WING.
Interesting? Who noticed and notified the c0ckp1t ?
Passengers and crew, if this is true, might soon die if nothing changes.
He told me that heard this first hand from one of the two pilots who was there. Unrestrained (barely regulated) American capitalism at its best...
Last edited by Ignition Override; 19th Dec 2006 at 06:25.
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Funny you should say that as my friend in question claims that the 747 flys like any of his previous mounts (Falcon and RJ 700).. Reckons the transition is o.k.
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I used to be one of these young Jumbo's Cpt (getting old now) and see no shame but no glory about it... maybe only little luck. The only thing I would say about it is that I would have prefer to stay a little bit more on the right hand seat in a Major than being upgraded a little bit too early in a charter with a Major's F/O salary.
If any young fellow here accepts the advice of an ex-rookie: Target the Majors and forget the idea of being the best the youngest the...It's only consolation prize
.
best to all
If any young fellow here accepts the advice of an ex-rookie: Target the Majors and forget the idea of being the best the youngest the...It's only consolation prize
.best to all
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Not sure what qualities are required in order to notice the errant details arising from the unrestrained stuff.
I imagine that from the LHS if you are tasked up and even the slightest bit anxious not to be seen to make a mistake, it may be quite easy to miss something non-routine, no matter how old or how young you are. An experienced subconscious might save the day but I for one, am not convinced.
On the other hand from the right hand seat as a relaxed observer with a capacity to double-check everything with your experienced eye coupled necessarily with a judgemental mindset (which might not be attractive!), you might easily notice errant details, and that same relaxed, judgemental, confident mindset allows such things to be pointed out very quickly and no mistake ("STOP the pushback!!!).
Put that same guy in the LHS and distract him with routine workload and one or two non-routine tasks and watch his spare capacity to notice the non-routine detail diminish quickly.
I imagine young commanders recent to the job, put alongside known experienced F/Os will be most prone to task overload unless they are very smart and confident leader-type cookies indeed. But then the F/O can make up for it.
I have no (imagined) idea of how a young commander alongside a similar-aged F/O works out in practice except that in that case the cockpit may be missing a certain je ne sais quoi.
(I imagine!)
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i v heard from a flying school lecture, from south africa.
came out of the airforce at about 20, got into the 707 and became a captain on that, and when 747 first came out, he was nominated as a captian at age around 25.
according to what he said, did all the conversion training and what not, simulator ride and stuff, and the first time he got on the real plane, it was the first time all the passengers got on as well, so everybody including the crews were going " well, what a big machine...."
unforunately he smoked a lot, had a heart attack at around 26, lost his medical, and never flew again.....
came out of the airforce at about 20, got into the 707 and became a captain on that, and when 747 first came out, he was nominated as a captian at age around 25.
according to what he said, did all the conversion training and what not, simulator ride and stuff, and the first time he got on the real plane, it was the first time all the passengers got on as well, so everybody including the crews were going " well, what a big machine...."
unforunately he smoked a lot, had a heart attack at around 26, lost his medical, and never flew again.....
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I know of whom you speak. Without breaking his anonymity, the last time I saw him (around 1988-89), we were neighbors in Long Beach, California and he was flying for Delta. I often wonder what happened to him.
When I was reading this thread, Catch 22 said he was 31 when he was driving a 742 and I thought it might be him but I remember this guy being younger, even to the point that there was some plaque at People Express noting him as being the youngest 747 Captain and I’m pretty sure he was in his mid 20’s.
11Fan
Last edited by 11Fan; 28th Dec 2006 at 16:28. Reason: No particular reason
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Having once been involved, albeit in a very minor capacity, in the assessment of F/Os approaching captain, I noticed that the major factor in the RHS to LHS transition was the mental transition. There is no doubt that anyone can fly the aircraft equally well from either seat but pre-command training comes in to it's own when the candidate is given the opportunity to be exposed to some of the off-the-cuff stuff that can occur, particularly down route, that requires the bit extra that captains need to have sewn up in their back pocket, thinking outside the square, as it is sometimes called.
Given the opportunity to experience some out of the ordinary experiences from a captains point of view and given the opportunity to make the decisions, does wonders for improving the aspirants confidence. Should the supervising captain choose to vary the decision then he must explain why, in detail.
Captains can be trained to be captains BUT the basic material must be there in the first place, if that material is missing, such as the ability to make decisions based on all the information available, the ability not to get too flustered in non-normals situation, etc. etc. but to hold the whole flight together, follow the checklist and make decisions based on common sense, the aircrafts ability, the facilities available at your chosen destination, utilisation of the entire crew to the best advantage etc. etc. and on, on, the list is endless etc. that is what a captain has to produce to a greater or lesser degree. Some of the above can be taught but not all, some of it has to be innate and be natural, only some of it can be gained by experience.
It is a myth to assume that a command failure is the company's fault, there are people out there who won't make it, there are people out there who would make it under a less demanding system, bigger budget, more demand and less supply etc.
Dealing with an emergency of any sort on an aircraft half way across the Pacific at the dead of night is not likely to be the same as dealing with a similar emergency half way across Europe but a captain who has served his time on both domestic and long haul and then gets his LHS long haul should be, by experience, reasonably well prepared.
My point? err.......... well yes, nothing wrong with a young captain just so long that he knows his stuff, his aeroplane, has innate command ability and consequently the respect of his crew.
As the Middle East and Fragrant Harbour forums will show the idea of what is a reasonable time between gaining one's licence and gaining ones first command vary a whole lot. I have flown with people who, given the time and training and money, would eventually make captain, I have flown with people who would never over come the 'pressure' of the added responsibility but would forever fly the aeroplane beautifully.
Command is not a Divine right and not all aspects can be taught, but, generally, the greater the age usually means the greater the experience!
Given the opportunity to experience some out of the ordinary experiences from a captains point of view and given the opportunity to make the decisions, does wonders for improving the aspirants confidence. Should the supervising captain choose to vary the decision then he must explain why, in detail.
Captains can be trained to be captains BUT the basic material must be there in the first place, if that material is missing, such as the ability to make decisions based on all the information available, the ability not to get too flustered in non-normals situation, etc. etc. but to hold the whole flight together, follow the checklist and make decisions based on common sense, the aircrafts ability, the facilities available at your chosen destination, utilisation of the entire crew to the best advantage etc. etc. and on, on, the list is endless etc. that is what a captain has to produce to a greater or lesser degree. Some of the above can be taught but not all, some of it has to be innate and be natural, only some of it can be gained by experience.
It is a myth to assume that a command failure is the company's fault, there are people out there who won't make it, there are people out there who would make it under a less demanding system, bigger budget, more demand and less supply etc.
Dealing with an emergency of any sort on an aircraft half way across the Pacific at the dead of night is not likely to be the same as dealing with a similar emergency half way across Europe but a captain who has served his time on both domestic and long haul and then gets his LHS long haul should be, by experience, reasonably well prepared.
My point? err.......... well yes, nothing wrong with a young captain just so long that he knows his stuff, his aeroplane, has innate command ability and consequently the respect of his crew.
As the Middle East and Fragrant Harbour forums will show the idea of what is a reasonable time between gaining one's licence and gaining ones first command vary a whole lot. I have flown with people who, given the time and training and money, would eventually make captain, I have flown with people who would never over come the 'pressure' of the added responsibility but would forever fly the aeroplane beautifully.
Command is not a Divine right and not all aspects can be taught, but, generally, the greater the age usually means the greater the experience!
