Longhaul crew
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Longhaul crew
Hello
I'd like to start a survey about pilots on the longhaul flights. How many pilots are you on each flight? There's always rumours that "they" only fly with two pilots or "they" always fly with three pilots, even four. But who are "they"?
I'll start myself. We fly from northern Europe (scheduled flights) and are manned as follows:
US East coast 3 (summertime 2)
US West coast 3 (also ORD)
All Asia flights 3
What rules do you have about manning the flights?
Rgds
swedflyer
I'd like to start a survey about pilots on the longhaul flights. How many pilots are you on each flight? There's always rumours that "they" only fly with two pilots or "they" always fly with three pilots, even four. But who are "they"?
I'll start myself. We fly from northern Europe (scheduled flights) and are manned as follows:
US East coast 3 (summertime 2)
US West coast 3 (also ORD)
All Asia flights 3
What rules do you have about manning the flights?
Rgds
swedflyer
Last edited by swedflyer; 18th Mar 2006 at 08:23.
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In the UK under CAP371 we have ' limits on two crew long range operations'.
This means that sectors over 7 hours are factored and penalise the maximum Flight Duty Period allowable. We can get around this penalty by having a third pilot on the flight deck. There does not need to be any facility for rest in this case and the 'heavy crew' can now work to normal limits.
This bears no relation whatever to ' inflight relief ' with substitute crew having rest in a bunk.
I do not believe you have such a rule in Sweden - certainly not in Denmark where the points system takes no account of whether there are 2 or 3 crew on a two-crew aircraft.
In effect this means that flights operating from England to Cancun in the winter need 3 pilots each way ( unless the returning crew are acclimatised ) whereas to Florida 2 crew can do the job.
Of course then ultra long haul with in flight relief is then another subject which I shall leave to someone more qualified to comment.
This means that sectors over 7 hours are factored and penalise the maximum Flight Duty Period allowable. We can get around this penalty by having a third pilot on the flight deck. There does not need to be any facility for rest in this case and the 'heavy crew' can now work to normal limits.
This bears no relation whatever to ' inflight relief ' with substitute crew having rest in a bunk.
I do not believe you have such a rule in Sweden - certainly not in Denmark where the points system takes no account of whether there are 2 or 3 crew on a two-crew aircraft.
In effect this means that flights operating from England to Cancun in the winter need 3 pilots each way ( unless the returning crew are acclimatised ) whereas to Florida 2 crew can do the job.
Of course then ultra long haul with in flight relief is then another subject which I shall leave to someone more qualified to comment.
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Hi Swedflyer
We normally have a 3 crew operation to all our destinations. We used to do Atlanta - Cape Town/Johannesburg ( a 15 hr sector) where we used to take an extra crew member. Our longest sector is now 13hr25 block (Johannesburg - Hong Kong) where we use 3 crew.
We normally have a 3 crew operation to all our destinations. We used to do Atlanta - Cape Town/Johannesburg ( a 15 hr sector) where we used to take an extra crew member. Our longest sector is now 13hr25 block (Johannesburg - Hong Kong) where we use 3 crew.
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Cathay Pacific use either 3 or 4 crew on LH/ULH patterns.
Duty time & departure time within the 'local night' defines the requirement for adding a 3rd pilot but how many timezones you cross can add the 4th pilot.
<5hr timezone change....3 pilots
>5hr timezone change....4 pilots
Some 11hr flights routing Nth/Sth will therefore have 3 crew. Whereas an11hr East/West flight will need 4.
Duty time & departure time within the 'local night' defines the requirement for adding a 3rd pilot but how many timezones you cross can add the 4th pilot.
<5hr timezone change....3 pilots
>5hr timezone change....4 pilots
Some 11hr flights routing Nth/Sth will therefore have 3 crew. Whereas an11hr East/West flight will need 4.
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C'mon guys! 
Surely there must be more airline longhaul pilots on this forum!?
The background for my interest is that we will have negotiations about a new agreement this spring and there are always "rumours" who flies with so and so many pilots. It would surely be nice to have facts to present when the question arises. All continents are interesting, give it a try!
LH?
OS?
AA?
UA?
QF?
JL?
IB?
AF?
KL?
TG?
SQ?
RG?
LO?
and so on...
Rgds
swedflyer
Surely there must be more airline longhaul pilots on this forum!?
The background for my interest is that we will have negotiations about a new agreement this spring and there are always "rumours" who flies with so and so many pilots. It would surely be nice to have facts to present when the question arises. All continents are interesting, give it a try!
LH?
OS?
AA?
UA?
QF?
JL?
IB?
AF?
KL?
TG?
SQ?
RG?
LO?
and so on...
Rgds
swedflyer
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Originally Posted by swedflyer
I'll start myself. We fly from northern Europe (scheduled flights) and are manned as follows:
US East coast 3 (summertime 2)
US West coast 3 (also ORD)
All Asia flights 3
Most LH aicraft today are made to fly without F/E. The regulations state minimum crew. But is your airline one of those that puts safety before money? I don't want to raise the question if 2 pilots are enough over the Atlantic, Pacific or whereever. This has been discussed in other threads. I'm just interested to know how you are manned. I'm one of those who believe in 3 pilots-flying even if I rest well in my chair. But, 8-9 hrs on the flightdeck, just going outside to visit the loo is not healthy in my opinion. That's why I've raised the question to give my union some facts for the upcoming negotiations. I don't want my airline to compete with the lowest possible manning, I want them to compete with a good and safe product.
Brgds
swedflyer
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There are still a lot of 747 classics and DC-10s out there. I happen to fly the former. We fly up to 12 hours -- which will cover virtually any Atlantic leg and most Pacific legs (except LAX-ICN upwind) with a 3-man crew. Makes no sense that 2 Pilots + 1 FE fly 12 hours, while 2 Pilots alone only can fly 8. Nobody gets a break in either case!
I was on the 744 for 6+ years, and we only had 3-man crews for 8-12 hour legs, and 4-man crews for 12+ hour legs. Most of our Atlantic legs were over 8 hours, but ICN-ANC was well under it.
Bottom line is, the company crews to FAA minimums.
I was on the 744 for 6+ years, and we only had 3-man crews for 8-12 hour legs, and 4-man crews for 12+ hour legs. Most of our Atlantic legs were over 8 hours, but ICN-ANC was well under it.
Bottom line is, the company crews to FAA minimums.
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Brazilian regulation
For jet operation (duty limit / flight time / landings)
2 pilots, 1 F/E (obviously if required) and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) – 11 hrs (some decrements for night time) / 09:30 / 5 (6 if there was a rest period of 13 hrs before the flight)
3 pilots (at least 2 captains), 2 F/E and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) increased in 25% - 14 hrs / 12 hrs / 6
4 pilots (at least 2 captains), 2 F/E and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) increased in 50% – 20 hrs / 15 hrs / 4
2 pilots, 1 F/E (obviously if required) and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) – 11 hrs (some decrements for night time) / 09:30 / 5 (6 if there was a rest period of 13 hrs before the flight)
3 pilots (at least 2 captains), 2 F/E and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) increased in 25% - 14 hrs / 12 hrs / 6
4 pilots (at least 2 captains), 2 F/E and 1 F/A for every door (floor level) increased in 50% – 20 hrs / 15 hrs / 4
