Safety Pilot
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 36
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From: West Sussex
Safety Pilot
If I go in the jump seat as a safety pilot for a new pilot in training what are the rules regarding logging of the flight hours.
If I am a requirement of the airline and I go as a safety pilot, then are these hours loggable or not..if so how are they logged.?
If something should happen while I am on board the aircraft as a member of crew, then I am still accountable surely as the CPT and the FO..is this correct or not..?
If I am a requirement of the airline and I go as a safety pilot, then are these hours loggable or not..if so how are they logged.?
If something should happen while I am on board the aircraft as a member of crew, then I am still accountable surely as the CPT and the FO..is this correct or not..?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
IMO:
1) - None - see 2)
2) No - (NB: all flights are 'loggable' but these are not 'countable' towards anything - you could 'log' them as 'cover' or 'safety pilot'). Now, flight pay and allowances is a diffrent aminal
3) Not legally, but if you miss the TC's big mistake
(wash my mouth out ) or do not pick up a significant problem from where you sit, your company may not think much of you! - 'cos that's why you are there.......................... and of course to take the seat if considered necessary - then they are 'countable'!
1) - None - see 2)
2) No - (NB: all flights are 'loggable' but these are not 'countable' towards anything - you could 'log' them as 'cover' or 'safety pilot'). Now, flight pay and allowances is a diffrent aminal
3) Not legally, but if you miss the TC's big mistake
(wash my mouth out ) or do not pick up a significant problem from where you sit, your company may not think much of you! - 'cos that's why you are there.......................... and of course to take the seat if considered necessary - then they are 'countable'!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
From: uk
IM O:
If you are a required member of the crew - ie. your company training manual (part D under JAR OPS) requires the presence of a safety pilot for the certain training duties, then you ought to log the hours (as I was told by my TCs, many years ago).
The hours still count towards your maximum annual flying hour total (UK? 900hrs), so they should go in your logbook for that reason alone - one of the reasons we keep logbooks in the first place.
I agree with BOAC regarding 'accountability' - though I consider that quite a horrible concept in aviation: as professionals we should be trying our damndest to get it right all the time, regardless of who is 'in charge' or paper.
If one is on board, and a situation develops, one had better feel able to do all possible to assist, to the very limit of one's capability - if not, one ought to quietly choose another career..!
If you are a required member of the crew - ie. your company training manual (part D under JAR OPS) requires the presence of a safety pilot for the certain training duties, then you ought to log the hours (as I was told by my TCs, many years ago).
The hours still count towards your maximum annual flying hour total (UK? 900hrs), so they should go in your logbook for that reason alone - one of the reasons we keep logbooks in the first place.
I agree with BOAC regarding 'accountability' - though I consider that quite a horrible concept in aviation: as professionals we should be trying our damndest to get it right all the time, regardless of who is 'in charge' or paper.
If one is on board, and a situation develops, one had better feel able to do all possible to assist, to the very limit of one's capability - if not, one ought to quietly choose another career..!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 177
Likes: 4
From: Planet Earth
Pub User, interesting point, but I wasn't sure that "pilot supervising co-pilot activities" is an accurate description of a safety pilot. So I had a closer look...
I noticed "pilot supervising co-pilot activities" is case F(ii) in that LASORS Appendix, and it does say to log P2 time.
However, further down the list is case N: "Pilot acting as safety pilot". This is supposed to be logged as SNY time in a spare column and so not added into your total time.
So the next question is, what exactly is "pilot supervising co-pilot activities"?
I noticed "pilot supervising co-pilot activities" is case F(ii) in that LASORS Appendix, and it does say to log P2 time.
However, further down the list is case N: "Pilot acting as safety pilot". This is supposed to be logged as SNY time in a spare column and so not added into your total time.
So the next question is, what exactly is "pilot supervising co-pilot activities"?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 5
From: Wor Yerm
We've has this one before. You are a "Supernumary" member of the crew. These hours are loggable, in the "Other Flying" column - ie, it doesn't count for this issue of licences and ratings. It's like the Third Officers (or teaboys or whatever they are called), they can't count "Club Class" towards an ATPL.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: LGW
Check with your company management.
In our company we sometimes do safety pilot flight but they are regarded by the company and the CAA as Pilot supervising co-pilots duties. You are able to log these hours as P2 time.
But you need to check with your company what their definition of your safety pilots duties are.
Regards, FT
In our company we sometimes do safety pilot flight but they are regarded by the company and the CAA as Pilot supervising co-pilots duties. You are able to log these hours as P2 time.
But you need to check with your company what their definition of your safety pilots duties are.
Regards, FT
