Takeoff Alternate ?
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Takeoff Alternate ?
Hi everybody.
JAR OPS 1.295 states:
(a).........
(b) An operator must select and specify in the
operational flight plan a take-off alternate if it would
not be possible to return to the aerodrome of
departure for meteorological or performance reasons.
The take-off alternate shall be located within:
(1) For two-engined aeroplanes, either:
(i) One hour flight time at a oneengine-
inoperative cruising speed according
to the AFM in still air standard conditions
based on the actual take-off mass
The case: The airplane I fly is certified to CAT IIIA app. with dual engine only. At the take off time the weather is at CAT IIIA minima. If I came back to land immediately after take off with both engine, I can land. But if engine fails, I can not land back.
Question: (b) above does not particularly specify an engine failure case. Should I select a Take Off alternate?
Thanks in advance
JAR OPS 1.295 states:
(a).........
(b) An operator must select and specify in the
operational flight plan a take-off alternate if it would
not be possible to return to the aerodrome of
departure for meteorological or performance reasons.
The take-off alternate shall be located within:
(1) For two-engined aeroplanes, either:
(i) One hour flight time at a oneengine-
inoperative cruising speed according
to the AFM in still air standard conditions
based on the actual take-off mass
The case: The airplane I fly is certified to CAT IIIA app. with dual engine only. At the take off time the weather is at CAT IIIA minima. If I came back to land immediately after take off with both engine, I can land. But if engine fails, I can not land back.
Question: (b) above does not particularly specify an engine failure case. Should I select a Take Off alternate?
Thanks in advance
Last edited by JABBARA; 6th Nov 2004 at 19:29.
JAB,
I agree with marvellous, but does your company operations policy not address this issue ? Lots of ways to skin this cat, I guess.
My old airline ( in the USA ) required a T/O alt any time the wx was below CAT 1 because that was as low as we could go on one engine even though the airplane was CAT3A.
Of course, once the emergency is declared... However, I'm not sure I'd want to be trying a S/E approach to CAT3A if I had a decent altenate within req'd time.
Just a thought...
I agree with marvellous, but does your company operations policy not address this issue ? Lots of ways to skin this cat, I guess.
My old airline ( in the USA ) required a T/O alt any time the wx was below CAT 1 because that was as low as we could go on one engine even though the airplane was CAT3A.
Of course, once the emergency is declared... However, I'm not sure I'd want to be trying a S/E approach to CAT3A if I had a decent altenate within req'd time.
Just a thought...
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yes,
and I guess that one of the reason would be: although there are many reasons why you would need to come back for a landing, one of the most probable would be an engine failure.
So you need a TO altn when the wx is below your one engine out minima.
and I guess that one of the reason would be: although there are many reasons why you would need to come back for a landing, one of the most probable would be an engine failure.
So you need a TO altn when the wx is below your one engine out minima.
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Thank you guys who reply.
Logically I agree with you.
However, do you think JAR OPS 1.295 paragraph above implies that failed engine approach capability (minimums) should be regarded to decide to take a take off alternate or not.
Paragraph (b) above does not mention from engine failure condition. Engine failure condition is only cited at paragraph (1) (i) to calculate the allowable distance of take off alternate airport from deprture point.
Please don't find this post silly, cause English is not my native language
Jab.
Logically I agree with you.
However, do you think JAR OPS 1.295 paragraph above implies that failed engine approach capability (minimums) should be regarded to decide to take a take off alternate or not.
Paragraph (b) above does not mention from engine failure condition. Engine failure condition is only cited at paragraph (1) (i) to calculate the allowable distance of take off alternate airport from deprture point.
Please don't find this post silly, cause English is not my native language
Jab.
Last edited by JABBARA; 7th Nov 2004 at 02:05.
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FAR 121.617
§121.617 Alternate airport for departure.
(a) If the weather conditions at the airport of takeoff are below the landing minimums in the certificate holder's operations specifications for that airport, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft from that airport unless the dispatch or flight release specifies an alternate airport located within the following distances from the airport of takeoff:
(1) Aircraft having two engines. Not more than one hour from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative.
http://ecfrback.access.gpo.gov/otcgi...SIZE=10&ITEM=1
(a) If the weather conditions at the airport of takeoff are below the landing minimums in the certificate holder's operations specifications for that airport, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft from that airport unless the dispatch or flight release specifies an alternate airport located within the following distances from the airport of takeoff:
(1) Aircraft having two engines. Not more than one hour from the departure airport at normal cruising speed in still air with one engine inoperative.
http://ecfrback.access.gpo.gov/otcgi...SIZE=10&ITEM=1
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Hi there!
As I see it the answer lies in the wording " for performance reasons". Pretty clear to mee, you can not do a Cat 3 on single engine hence you need a tka-off alternate.
As I see it the answer lies in the wording " for performance reasons". Pretty clear to mee, you can not do a Cat 3 on single engine hence you need a tka-off alternate.
