shoulder harness
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shoulder harness
Hy
Are there any policies regarding shoulder harness use in your SOP?
When,after T/O you put them off,and also when,after ldg?
Also,what about the use of CDU pages during flight ,descent,app,ldg..(737) ?
Thks Alex
Are there any policies regarding shoulder harness use in your SOP?
When,after T/O you put them off,and also when,after ldg?
Also,what about the use of CDU pages during flight ,descent,app,ldg..(737) ?
Thks Alex
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Harness ON from before engine start to after shut down of the engines.
CDU, PF has take off page(N1%,speeds..)and PNF LEGS,
then after sid,PF has legs and PNF Progress page.
After a few incidents due to noise abatements..good idea to have the prog page 3 on to monitor FD/LNAV accuracy along with Raw data.As our SOPs require both to be in AUTO..(only use of Manual when LNAV fails and before intercept of localiser on PF side.)
M.85
CDU, PF has take off page(N1%,speeds..)and PNF LEGS,
then after sid,PF has legs and PNF Progress page.
After a few incidents due to noise abatements..good idea to have the prog page 3 on to monitor FD/LNAV accuracy along with Raw data.As our SOPs require both to be in AUTO..(only use of Manual when LNAV fails and before intercept of localiser on PF side.)
M.85
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Isn't it a bit uncomfy to keep the shoulder harness on all the time? We keep only the legs straps on all the flight.
And ,what pages during descent?
Don't you use CRZ page during flight?
Also,why not use the RNP/ANP from the bottom of the legs page?
Thks for answer M.85
And ,what pages during descent?
Don't you use CRZ page during flight?
Also,why not use the RNP/ANP from the bottom of the legs page?
Thks for answer M.85
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Hi Alex.
Harness on except above 10000ft no turbulence and no visit to the toilet of one of the two CM.
Those on most of our 737 are especially tight and unconmfortable, so I often cheat a bit and take them off even before 10000ft, but not in descent.
I don't accept the harness to be removed just after landing, as you might still collide with something... but only after the parking brake is set.
Take off: PF TO, PNF LEGS
Autopilot ON: PF LEGS, PNF PROG
Cruise the same, but of course we visit various different pages, above all FIX before descent to check position by temporarily turning to Manual the navaids, DES, INIT REF....
APP: PF INIT REF or FIX, PNF PROG 3 for the wind components.
Ciao
Harness on except above 10000ft no turbulence and no visit to the toilet of one of the two CM.
Those on most of our 737 are especially tight and unconmfortable, so I often cheat a bit and take them off even before 10000ft, but not in descent.
I don't accept the harness to be removed just after landing, as you might still collide with something... but only after the parking brake is set.
Take off: PF TO, PNF LEGS
Autopilot ON: PF LEGS, PNF PROG
Cruise the same, but of course we visit various different pages, above all FIX before descent to check position by temporarily turning to Manual the navaids, DES, INIT REF....
APP: PF INIT REF or FIX, PNF PROG 3 for the wind components.
Ciao
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uncomfy yes...we atke them off at 10000...depending on captains..sometimes at 5000ft ;-) also if one of the pilots in cruise decides to go chat with cabin crews remaing pilot straps on the harness...as it has been said the harness on the ground as brakes may play tricks on you and you may hit something ..no time then to buckle up..
M.85
M.85
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Full harness ON prior to engine start.
Shoulder / crotch strap OFF at 10,000 ft on climb, or at least after the After Takeoff checks, lap belt remains ON full time.
Full harness ON at 10,000 ft on descent through to engine shutdown.
Can't see the sense in keeping an inertial shoulder harness on en-route, I can't envisage any longitudinal decelerations en-route to warrant it. (Well, slamming into a mountain would provide one helluva deceleration, but you'll need a bit more than the shoulder harness).
FMC use - Don't fly the B737 but do fly one of the same family.
Takeoff : PF VNAV, PNF THRUST
En-Route : Typically PF PROGRESS, PNF LEGS, but commonsense applies to that selection which is most appropriate for the circumstances.
Descent / Approach : PF PROGRESS, PNF LEGS, the latter very important during VNAV approaches to monitor altitude constraints.
Shoulder / crotch strap OFF at 10,000 ft on climb, or at least after the After Takeoff checks, lap belt remains ON full time.
Full harness ON at 10,000 ft on descent through to engine shutdown.
Can't see the sense in keeping an inertial shoulder harness on en-route, I can't envisage any longitudinal decelerations en-route to warrant it. (Well, slamming into a mountain would provide one helluva deceleration, but you'll need a bit more than the shoulder harness).
FMC use - Don't fly the B737 but do fly one of the same family.
Takeoff : PF VNAV, PNF THRUST
En-Route : Typically PF PROGRESS, PNF LEGS, but commonsense applies to that selection which is most appropriate for the circumstances.
Descent / Approach : PF PROGRESS, PNF LEGS, the latter very important during VNAV approaches to monitor altitude constraints.
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Ah those harnesses are overrated.
The only thing your are doing with those shoulder and crotch steps is marginally improving your chances of an open coffin....
But you damn well better have that lap belt TIGHT as that is what keeps your head off the overheaded....
Cheers
Wino
The only thing your are doing with those shoulder and crotch steps is marginally improving your chances of an open coffin....
But you damn well better have that lap belt TIGHT as that is what keeps your head off the overheaded....
Cheers
Wino
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Maybe so Wino but if a pilot undoes his harness too early and then an emergency develops requiring an immediate return the last thing you want is the guy who should be taking vital actions and reading a check list fumbling to reinstate his shoulder straps instead.
Best left on/put back on when well, well clear of the ground.
Best left on/put back on when well, well clear of the ground.
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Your company Operations Manual, (Part A if JAA approved), should reflect the regulations in force in the state in which your aircraft is registered ( regarging seat belt/ shoulder harness usage) as a minimum, but can of course be more restrictive. You should probably consult this??
For example, the UK ANO( Air Navigation Order, 1989), part V states:
Pilots to remain at controls
33.—(1) The commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, being a flying machine or glider, shall cause one pilot to remain at the controls at all times while the aircraft is in flight. If the aircraft is required by or under this Order to carry 2 pilots, the commander shall cause both pilots to remain at the controls during take-off and landing. If the aircraft carries 2 or more pilots (whether or not it is required to do so) and is engaged on a flight for the purpose of the public transport of passengers the commander shall remain at the controls during take-off and landing.
(2) Each pilot at the controls shall be secured in his seat by either a safety belt with or without one diagonal shoulder strap, or a safety harness except that during take-off and landing a safety harness shall be worn if it is required by article 13 of this Order to be provided.
An operater may for example state in their Op's Manual (Part A if in JAA format).
Wearing of Seatbelts/ shoulder harness
(1) All required flightdeck crew shall make use of the seatbelt at all times when seated. The shoulder harness shall be worn on the ground during taxi, take-off and landing and in flight whenever the aircraft is below 10,000ft , or whenever only one crewmember is present on the flightdeck, or whenever the commander so requires.
For example, the UK ANO( Air Navigation Order, 1989), part V states:
Pilots to remain at controls
33.—(1) The commander of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, being a flying machine or glider, shall cause one pilot to remain at the controls at all times while the aircraft is in flight. If the aircraft is required by or under this Order to carry 2 pilots, the commander shall cause both pilots to remain at the controls during take-off and landing. If the aircraft carries 2 or more pilots (whether or not it is required to do so) and is engaged on a flight for the purpose of the public transport of passengers the commander shall remain at the controls during take-off and landing.
(2) Each pilot at the controls shall be secured in his seat by either a safety belt with or without one diagonal shoulder strap, or a safety harness except that during take-off and landing a safety harness shall be worn if it is required by article 13 of this Order to be provided.
An operater may for example state in their Op's Manual (Part A if in JAA format).
Wearing of Seatbelts/ shoulder harness
(1) All required flightdeck crew shall make use of the seatbelt at all times when seated. The shoulder harness shall be worn on the ground during taxi, take-off and landing and in flight whenever the aircraft is below 10,000ft , or whenever only one crewmember is present on the flightdeck, or whenever the commander so requires.
Last edited by banana head; 13th Oct 2004 at 09:51.
Bottums Up
Ans. Full five point harness on below 10,000'. Above 10,000' minimum lap belt. Shoulder harness would be fitted when required in turbulence.
Question - Some years ago a pilot, I think the Captain of a BAC111, was sucked out of the cockpit window after it blew out airborne. The pilot was grabbed by the ankles by a flight attendant who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Can any one advise if the pilot was wearing a seat belt? If so, did the belt fail or was the pilot sucked out of the belt, so to speak?
Question - Some years ago a pilot, I think the Captain of a BAC111, was sucked out of the cockpit window after it blew out airborne. The pilot was grabbed by the ankles by a flight attendant who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Can any one advise if the pilot was wearing a seat belt? If so, did the belt fail or was the pilot sucked out of the belt, so to speak?
My recollection of an article by the chap involved is that when clear of the floor he kept the lap strap loosley fastened and that this was the case at the time of the incident, but that he was pointing out something on the ground and so the belt was very loose and he was close to the window when it went.
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As far as I can recall from bits and pieces of news stories at the time was that policy dictated that only ONE pilot had to be fully harnessed at all times....obviously accuracy would be questionable here, as mentioned these were TV news reports.... and I do believe that an FA had to hold on to the Captains ankles for some time. There was actually some pretty gruesome footage of the AC taxiing upon landing where there was a trail of windswept blood leading back from the cockpit window, due to the captains head banging violently against the AC....requiring numerous stitches and he received a nasty case of frost bite....
