Continuous Descent Approaches
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That's great when you have the 'knowledge' so you can program it all in before the descent, but when you come in on a Bovingdon into LHR, they fire at you new instructions like FLXXX XXnm before BNN. Sometimes it's easier to just use your descent line to overlay the end descent point using VS so you can monitor outside better rather than be head in reprogramming.
I have a suspicion controllers 'speak with forked tongue' sometimes, as in "you can slow down now because they're holding ahead". Coming in from AMS direction low on fuel once, they told us that (20 minute delays) and we asked to absorb the holding delay en route and slow right down to minimum speed. Took forever to get to LAM. Switched frequency just before we got there to be told to enter hold for 20 minutes. Protestations brushed off with "I don't know anything about that!", and so we held as well. Now when I hear '20 minute holds and you can slow down', I reckon the timer works from when you enter the hold so all slowing down early does is delay you even more! Gets me going even faster.
I have a suspicion controllers 'speak with forked tongue' sometimes, as in "you can slow down now because they're holding ahead". Coming in from AMS direction low on fuel once, they told us that (20 minute delays) and we asked to absorb the holding delay en route and slow right down to minimum speed. Took forever to get to LAM. Switched frequency just before we got there to be told to enter hold for 20 minutes. Protestations brushed off with "I don't know anything about that!", and so we held as well. Now when I hear '20 minute holds and you can slow down', I reckon the timer works from when you enter the hold so all slowing down early does is delay you even more! Gets me going even faster.
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Have to agree with Notso here. There's no point asking someone to slow down unless it's likely that the hold will be clear by the time they get there.
If you are continuing to feed traffic in from all directions, then let them come at their own pace, unless of course the speed is to maintain separation from someone ahead.
Often it's much easier to let them go in to the hold for once around the buoy than start vectoring and speed controlling a multitude of aircraft with the increased workload and RT loading which that brings.
Having said that, I would expect the pilot to comply with any SLPs or published holding speeds as normal to ensure that they remain within the protected airspace of the holding pattern.
If you are continuing to feed traffic in from all directions, then let them come at their own pace, unless of course the speed is to maintain separation from someone ahead.
Often it's much easier to let them go in to the hold for once around the buoy than start vectoring and speed controlling a multitude of aircraft with the increased workload and RT loading which that brings.
Having said that, I would expect the pilot to comply with any SLPs or published holding speeds as normal to ensure that they remain within the protected airspace of the holding pattern.
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Notso
Most of the 'knowledge' is on the plate, so I don't normally get involved in reprogramming the FMS after push back.
I am from the opposite school of thought on slowing down if holding is occuring, but I tend colour my decision based upon who tells me I can slow down. If the CLN controller (or whatever sector number it is now) tells me then I may consider it, if the SABER/DAGER controller tells me I can then I probably will slow a bit, and if the LAM controller or LL DIR tell me then I definitely will come all the way back on the speed.
The timer doesn't always start from when you enter the hold, after all EATs are used if the delay goes above 20mins and before that Heathrow often go on to the "numbers" (if I remember correctly).
Incidentally,if anyone in TC Ops reads this, I think that it could be worth adding "Expect FL130 at TANET" to the BIG 1E arrival plate and for the sake of simplicity making DET the SLP. I only mention this because I knew that the 130 restriction was coming, but my colleague was not expecting it and workload tends to rise a bit if this STAR is being used.
Only my opinion. Sorry if I am causing the thread to creep a bit.
G W-H
Most of the 'knowledge' is on the plate, so I don't normally get involved in reprogramming the FMS after push back.
I am from the opposite school of thought on slowing down if holding is occuring, but I tend colour my decision based upon who tells me I can slow down. If the CLN controller (or whatever sector number it is now) tells me then I may consider it, if the SABER/DAGER controller tells me I can then I probably will slow a bit, and if the LAM controller or LL DIR tell me then I definitely will come all the way back on the speed.
The timer doesn't always start from when you enter the hold, after all EATs are used if the delay goes above 20mins and before that Heathrow often go on to the "numbers" (if I remember correctly).
Incidentally,if anyone in TC Ops reads this, I think that it could be worth adding "Expect FL130 at TANET" to the BIG 1E arrival plate and for the sake of simplicity making DET the SLP. I only mention this because I knew that the 130 restriction was coming, but my colleague was not expecting it and workload tends to rise a bit if this STAR is being used.
Only my opinion. Sorry if I am causing the thread to creep a bit.
G W-H
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Many thanks to all who have posted such detailed, constructive and professional replies. I am currently working on a Pan-european project to do with noise and jet engine emission reductions and some of this info will be taken into account.
