Female Pilots!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bluediamond
Therein lies the problem. I am not sure what the percentage is male/female but currently it is most definitely in favour of the male. Female pilots are not such an everyday occurence yet and may not be for a long time. At the moment the flight deck is very much a male dominated area.
Whilst training I was one of two females amongst a class of fourteen. Consequenly, out of choice I became 'one of the boys' in order to get the best out of the course and co-operation of my colleagues. It was not a problem for me, that is just the way things are at the moment. When the guys were in the bar discussing the flying day, I didn't sit in my room doing my nails, what benefit would that have been to my study, I joined in with them and the aviation discussions and odd drink or two. It is the numbers game. We all supported each other through the good and bad times and got on fine, we were just all students together. The male/female 'thing' was never raised - in this context!
There are however, women who may use their feminine ploys to get on.
Up until now, although I admit I haven't reached the flight deck of a commercial airliner, I have had absolutely no problem with my male colleagues and have only been treated with professional courtesly and respect and I think in this day and age, apart from maybe the odd few males that is how I expect it will go on. I don't look on it as a woman doing a man's job, it is just a job but at the moment we are still very much outnumbered and we are still breaking into their territory.
In the main I think we are accepted as (women) pilots judging from most of the posts both here and in other forums.
However, in my expereince a glazed look seems to come over the eyes of non aviation people when I tell them I am a commercial pilot but that is a different matter.
hi5
I thought female pilots were as much an everyday occurence as female typists or doctors ... and it's not really all that long ago that it was considered that women could do neither job.
Whilst training I was one of two females amongst a class of fourteen. Consequenly, out of choice I became 'one of the boys' in order to get the best out of the course and co-operation of my colleagues. It was not a problem for me, that is just the way things are at the moment. When the guys were in the bar discussing the flying day, I didn't sit in my room doing my nails, what benefit would that have been to my study, I joined in with them and the aviation discussions and odd drink or two. It is the numbers game. We all supported each other through the good and bad times and got on fine, we were just all students together. The male/female 'thing' was never raised - in this context!
There are however, women who may use their feminine ploys to get on.
Up until now, although I admit I haven't reached the flight deck of a commercial airliner, I have had absolutely no problem with my male colleagues and have only been treated with professional courtesly and respect and I think in this day and age, apart from maybe the odd few males that is how I expect it will go on. I don't look on it as a woman doing a man's job, it is just a job but at the moment we are still very much outnumbered and we are still breaking into their territory.
The point I was making is that nobody passes comment any more about men or women in such professions and I would like to see that same acceptance for women pilots
However, in my expereince a glazed look seems to come over the eyes of non aviation people when I tell them I am a commercial pilot but that is a different matter.
hi5
Last edited by hifive11; 27th Jun 2004 at 09:33.
Actually Bluediamond that was pretty much the point that I thought you were making. It happens however to be my personal prejudice that anything with a totally non-aviation content on Pprune, belongs on Jetblast (which includes, I'd suggest, careers in nursing). That I probably didn't make at-all clear.
Incidentally, if anybody wants to make a big thing about the lack of women in Engineering, they'll have my full moral support - mostly because presumably some good women Engineers near the top, should force off the bottom a few male jobsworths that personally I'd love to see the back of from our industry.
G
Incidentally, if anybody wants to make a big thing about the lack of women in Engineering, they'll have my full moral support - mostly because presumably some good women Engineers near the top, should force off the bottom a few male jobsworths that personally I'd love to see the back of from our industry.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 27th Jun 2004 at 07:58.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting and informed debate:
'The Captain knocks on your door during a stop-over and is wearing a skirt, how do you react?'
The classic interview question where the lateral thought process suggests that they expect you to say something like.... 'I would offer to buy her a drink at the bar
'
I have used this question on many non-aviation related people (inc. many females) and not one of them even considered the possibility that the commander was a female.. I point well noted in this debate. But lets not be too harsh on those on the outside, CAA statistics to my knowledge suggest that approx. 98% of commercial licence holders are male, and from my experience both at training colleges and within the industry that is probably a fair estimate.
However, more women do appear to be entering the industry... to be quite honest I am not very P.C and I couldn't give a monkeys.. If a women can do the job then fine, I she can't.. send her packing. This is a professional industry and we can't be assessing the gendered divide within the cockpit as a focal point. The issue is skill: If a female commander would get me to an en-route alternate in one piece after an emergency, but the male pilot may not, then I know I would rather be next to the women.. We need the best standards in aircrew irrespective of ANY divide!
It is true that maybe this profession shouldn't be considered as 'male', but the fact remains that at the moment it is.. and maybe that will change. There are still jobs that are considered as 'male' and these usually involve physical activity. The Navy and Army have about 70% of their jobs open to women but that climbs to 96% in the Air Force. This suggests that women ARE accepted as pilots on a equal level to their male counterparts. Flying is NOT physically demanding (in terms of brut strength) and this is why women can do the job to an equal ability.
However, Royal Marines, Paras, submariners, SAS/SBS etc will always be all male professions and rightfully so. To those young women aspiring to become aviators: there are sadly a few who do it to prove a point
.... But to those who do it for the love of the industry I wish you all the best success
'The Captain knocks on your door during a stop-over and is wearing a skirt, how do you react?'
The classic interview question where the lateral thought process suggests that they expect you to say something like.... 'I would offer to buy her a drink at the bar
'I have used this question on many non-aviation related people (inc. many females) and not one of them even considered the possibility that the commander was a female.. I point well noted in this debate. But lets not be too harsh on those on the outside, CAA statistics to my knowledge suggest that approx. 98% of commercial licence holders are male, and from my experience both at training colleges and within the industry that is probably a fair estimate.
However, more women do appear to be entering the industry... to be quite honest I am not very P.C and I couldn't give a monkeys.. If a women can do the job then fine, I she can't.. send her packing. This is a professional industry and we can't be assessing the gendered divide within the cockpit as a focal point. The issue is skill: If a female commander would get me to an en-route alternate in one piece after an emergency, but the male pilot may not, then I know I would rather be next to the women.. We need the best standards in aircrew irrespective of ANY divide!
It is true that maybe this profession shouldn't be considered as 'male', but the fact remains that at the moment it is.. and maybe that will change. There are still jobs that are considered as 'male' and these usually involve physical activity. The Navy and Army have about 70% of their jobs open to women but that climbs to 96% in the Air Force. This suggests that women ARE accepted as pilots on a equal level to their male counterparts. Flying is NOT physically demanding (in terms of brut strength) and this is why women can do the job to an equal ability.
However, Royal Marines, Paras, submariners, SAS/SBS etc will always be all male professions and rightfully so. To those young women aspiring to become aviators: there are sadly a few who do it to prove a point
.... But to those who do it for the love of the industry I wish you all the best success
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tir Na n'Og
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have trained and flown with female aircrew from all three services and I can honestly say that it's never been an issue. yes you do occasionally get the weepy girl as mentioned earlier but I've seen the odd weepy boy as well.
At the end of the day you are going to get boys and girls who are good at their job, good on a squadron, and good craic in the bar. And you are going to get boys and girls who aren't.
As far a flashing "assets" around goes.... when you put on a goon bag and a bone dome your mother couldn't pick you out of a crowd so their is little issue of girls looking feminine or boys looking butch when we all look like Helitubbies
At the end of the day you are going to get boys and girls who are good at their job, good on a squadron, and good craic in the bar. And you are going to get boys and girls who aren't.
As far a flashing "assets" around goes.... when you put on a goon bag and a bone dome your mother couldn't pick you out of a crowd so their is little issue of girls looking feminine or boys looking butch when we all look like Helitubbies
'The Captain knocks on your door during a stop-over and is wearing a skirt, how do you react?'
(a) Female
(b) Male and Scottish
(c) Male, not Scottish.
Out of interest, why should the RN have female surface ship crews and not female submariners? I can't see that one myself - it's either a problem on board ship or it isn't. I can see why a mixed sex crew might be a problem on board a small vessel, but then you just have male or female crews.
G
Bluey
It happens however to be my personal prejudice that anything with a totally non-aviation content on Pprune, belongs on Jetblast (which includes, I'd suggest, careers in nursing). That I probably didn't make at-all clear.
To be fair though, you too have used examples from outside the aviation industry by quoting the Royal Navy and submarine crewing situation to illustrate your own point.
Something that might make you smile ... I do know a female engineer who actually has a Doctorate in that subject. (She is in Civil Engineering though, not aviation.)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really wonder whether this is a topic that is worthy of any comment at all. Whenever I brief a crew at the counter they are simply that - the crew. Whether male or female dosn't really have any bearing on the fact that they are all pilots who simply fly our planes from A to B and, apart from the very early days a decade or so ago, gender has never been an issue. One gender thing that does impress me though is the number of the ladies at skippyjet airlines who seem to be very successful at both motherhood and and running their carreers. Having said that, my hats off too to all the male pilots who manage fatherhood and their carreers. You all impress me equally.
Heat
Heat
Enigmatologist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Tottering Upon Brink
Age: 69
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my past life as D.O. for a 125 hauling the Wall Street Journal around the U.S. and as well as a little freight out of FLL around the Caribbean and Bahamas, in CV, 3's, 4's, & 6,s.
We had two female FE's one super based at STL and one total trainwreck at FLL. We also had 4 female pilots. Two great, with one to saving the CV440 (on fire!) while the captain screwed the pooch and two not so good. I'd say they were pretty much on par with their male crewmates. That was 15 years ago when I think the product coming out of the flight schools was vastly superior to most of the graduates I encounter now. Almost anyone can be taught to pilot a plane but there are only some of either sex that make a good manager" Captain".
We had two female FE's one super based at STL and one total trainwreck at FLL. We also had 4 female pilots. Two great, with one to saving the CV440 (on fire!) while the captain screwed the pooch and two not so good. I'd say they were pretty much on par with their male crewmates. That was 15 years ago when I think the product coming out of the flight schools was vastly superior to most of the graduates I encounter now. Almost anyone can be taught to pilot a plane but there are only some of either sex that make a good manager" Captain".
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hifive 11: Good point!!!
But again it stems to experiences... I have never met an 'older' women aspiring to fly, the older wannabes were ALL male and the wnnabe females were 'Young'. I do apologise to any 'older' aspiring female aviators and wish them all the very same luck and hope they succeed.. maybe your one yourself hi5
It is an expensive way of proving a point and as I said: 'a few who do it to prove a point..' as you have substantiated with : 'I don't think many women will have that luxury.'
There you go we're in agreance
Genghis the Engineer:
Of course they could be Scottish or from another Celtic decent, they could be a cross-dresser, they COULD be anything.. but that isn't what the airlines are getting at and that was my point in relation to the gendered poitics of a modern flightdeck.
With respect to the RN's policy on all male submarine crews.. that is there concern and as professionals they have made the right decision for what ever reason.. I too am perplexed as to why it is acceptable on surface vessels and not on submarines, but I am sure they have a good reason.
But again it stems to experiences... I have never met an 'older' women aspiring to fly, the older wannabes were ALL male and the wnnabe females were 'Young'. I do apologise to any 'older' aspiring female aviators and wish them all the very same luck and hope they succeed.. maybe your one yourself hi5
It is an expensive way of proving a point and as I said: 'a few who do it to prove a point..' as you have substantiated with : 'I don't think many women will have that luxury.'
There you go we're in agreance
Genghis the Engineer:
Of course they could be Scottish or from another Celtic decent, they could be a cross-dresser, they COULD be anything.. but that isn't what the airlines are getting at and that was my point in relation to the gendered poitics of a modern flightdeck.
With respect to the RN's policy on all male submarine crews.. that is there concern and as professionals they have made the right decision for what ever reason.. I too am perplexed as to why it is acceptable on surface vessels and not on submarines, but I am sure they have a good reason.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An interesting topic which is always in danger of being hijacked by the politically correct. I have found you get all types whether they be male or female. Maybe the bad female ones stand out more because us blokes are all too willing to look for their bad points. And maybe the bad ones allow their good points (assets) to stand out rather too well!
Is it perhaps that because females in some professions are a relative rarity and therefore tend to be noticed, the good ones look very good, and the bad ones look truly awful?
G
G
