Female Pilots!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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Everyone is an individual
My philosophy is, everyone is an individual. I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
I've flown with men who shouldn't be within 10 miles of any airport and I've flown with women who, likewise, should never be in charge of an airplane.
So when I fly with women (and men) everyone gets the same greeting until they prove they don't deserve it.
The only problem I've had with women at work is when they constantly make their gender the central issue everyday.
In other words if her professional identity is "Pilot" first and "Woman" second then she'll do fine because for the most part guys are willing to think of her as just one of the guys.
Now if being considered one of the guys (jokes, cussing, etc) makes her uncomfortable and she brings it up over and over and over...you know, that she's a woman and she doesn't appreciate the jokes or the cussing or we should carry her bags and open doors, etc...well, now there are gonna be problems.
When guys are at work we can be very task oriented. That means we don't want to watch every word. We want to get the job done and having a co-worker who is a team-player is a great asset and a lot of fun.
I've flown with men who shouldn't be within 10 miles of any airport and I've flown with women who, likewise, should never be in charge of an airplane.
So when I fly with women (and men) everyone gets the same greeting until they prove they don't deserve it.
The only problem I've had with women at work is when they constantly make their gender the central issue everyday.
In other words if her professional identity is "Pilot" first and "Woman" second then she'll do fine because for the most part guys are willing to think of her as just one of the guys.
Now if being considered one of the guys (jokes, cussing, etc) makes her uncomfortable and she brings it up over and over and over...you know, that she's a woman and she doesn't appreciate the jokes or the cussing or we should carry her bags and open doors, etc...well, now there are gonna be problems.
When guys are at work we can be very task oriented. That means we don't want to watch every word. We want to get the job done and having a co-worker who is a team-player is a great asset and a lot of fun.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: uk
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Too right! I love nothing better than being surrounded by men and being classed as one of the guys! Love a dirty joke, and love all the banter that goes with it. And it's even nicer when at the end of the day, at the bar, they all looked totally shocked when I get my legs out of that nasty uniform and wear a skirt! It's great when male colleagues seem to 'forget' there is a difference between us. Which, of course, there isn't really when it comes to flying.
I get fed up with women who play on the fact that they have two 'assets' that make men go weak. Gives the rest of us a bad name - and makes our assets totally useless in times when they are needed most!
I get fed up with women who play on the fact that they have two 'assets' that make men go weak. Gives the rest of us a bad name - and makes our assets totally useless in times when they are needed most!
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
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yEP I AGREE er 82
I agree with u er82 !
i too enjoy being surrounded by men!!! you can have a good laugh with them! my lads that i trained with were great i was like one of them we joked around they took the p*** but i was not offended i laughed with them! joined in too!!!!!!
i agree women using their assets DEFINATELY GIVES US A BAD NAME! and oh yes!!!! changing ure dress sense from what u normally wear with make up and the full works normally DOES SHOCK EM'.
E.T
i too enjoy being surrounded by men!!! you can have a good laugh with them! my lads that i trained with were great i was like one of them we joked around they took the p*** but i was not offended i laughed with them! joined in too!!!!!!
i agree women using their assets DEFINATELY GIVES US A BAD NAME! and oh yes!!!! changing ure dress sense from what u normally wear with make up and the full works normally DOES SHOCK EM'.
E.T
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Poor spelling and grammar would indeed give a bad impression, but that equally applies to men. But of course our neat fancy handwriting would detract from any mistakes, whereas messy boy-writing would only make it look even worse!
Actually handwriting (however neat) probably indicates that you haven't got the hang of a wordprocessor yet, which may not be the impression that you wish to give, particularly if seeking a job on a modern jet full of computers.
Mind you, I've heard some women executives say that they'll never admit to knowing how to type, since this might suggest that they used to be a secretary. Strange class-conscious world that we live in isn't it.
G
Mind you, I've heard some women executives say that they'll never admit to knowing how to type, since this might suggest that they used to be a secretary. Strange class-conscious world that we live in isn't it.
G
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I think that we probably have the best of both worlds, neat fancy hand writing and fantastically laid out and beautifully presented documents courtesy of the word processor. So we, as women are totally adaptable to all forms of calligraphy, manual or electronic.
That is apart from myself. I do have to admit to my handwriting being almost illegible so thanks be for word processors
That is apart from myself. I do have to admit to my handwriting being almost illegible so thanks be for word processors
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ESSEX
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women engineers
I have only met a few and they tended to be either excellent or awful, never in between. The good ones got to the top by being good. Sadly a small minority were awful but could scream the place down at the first wisper of criticism. management ran a mile and they got what they wanted. Pity as they poisoned the well for the others.
Bluey
It's a little disheartening to see that the question of gender in flying is still an issue.
If it were not, it would never have occurred to Echo T to even ask the question.
If it were not, it would never have occurred to Echo T to even ask the question.
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Join Date: May 2004
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huh!
Emmmmmmmmmmmm..................... BLUEDIAMOND[B] i dont think its an issue well i certainly hope not! i just wanted to find out whether you guys and girls had an opinion about this
i did my dissertation at uni on FEMALE PILOTS and i just wanted an opinion from the real girls and guys on what they thought!.
hope it hasnt offended anyone
E.T
i did my dissertation at uni on FEMALE PILOTS and i just wanted an opinion from the real girls and guys on what they thought!.
hope it hasnt offended anyone
E.T
Bluey
I can't see that anyone has taken offence, hifive. However, it is certainly a surprise to me to discover that it is actually enough of an issue that anyone would need to ask the question. I thought female pilots were as much an everyday occurence as female typists or doctors ... and it's not really all that long ago that it was considered that women could do neither job.
If you asked today for an opinion about women in either of those occupations, people would wonder what on earth you were talking about. And that, to my mind, is how it should be. For as long as people raise questions about a subject, it will always be an issue and divisiveness, however subtle, will continue to be promoted.
If you asked today for an opinion about women in either of those occupations, people would wonder what on earth you were talking about. And that, to my mind, is how it should be. For as long as people raise questions about a subject, it will always be an issue and divisiveness, however subtle, will continue to be promoted.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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To answer Genghis's previous note about women refusing to admit they could type - it's to save them extra work.
One woman I know (a trade unionist) would never LEARN to type because she said she would always be expected to take the minutes of meetings and deal with correspondence if she did (even though typing would save her time). I also know of a single man in a team of women who never had to take minutes and type them up because he was the only one who couldn't type.
(I'm sorry - slight thread creep)
To answer the original post, although a PPL, I've flown with some VERY experienced professional pilots and not one of them had a problem with female pilots. However, one did make a comment about women knowing left and right - but it was said as a statement of fact about a minor point, not a criticism. He felt women were no different to fly with than men.
One woman I know (a trade unionist) would never LEARN to type because she said she would always be expected to take the minutes of meetings and deal with correspondence if she did (even though typing would save her time). I also know of a single man in a team of women who never had to take minutes and type them up because he was the only one who couldn't type.
(I'm sorry - slight thread creep)
To answer the original post, although a PPL, I've flown with some VERY experienced professional pilots and not one of them had a problem with female pilots. However, one did make a comment about women knowing left and right - but it was said as a statement of fact about a minor point, not a criticism. He felt women were no different to fly with than men.
Bluey
I'm not expressing myself very well here, Genghis. The point I want to make is that for as long as people percieve that there are differences, then that attitude (that differences exist) is fostered and promoted.
The underlining suggestion throughout this thread has been that this is a case of women doing a men's job. The question was then asked about how they were treated as a result of that. The implication there is clear and we do not often hear people asking of male pilots how they are treated by female crew.
One contributor even went so far as to say that she was pleased to be considered "one of the guys" making it fairly clear that she considered herself to be an occupant of their territory. I think that comment came from er82 and this, to my mind, gave credence to an earlier comment by zerozero ...
The opinion seeming to be that it is up to the male pilots to accept or reject the female ones, that it is their prerogative to decide how the women pilots will be treated. We do not hear men proclaiming with pride that they are happy to be considered "one of the girls." It surprises me how many women continue to cooperate in promoting this attitude and it surprises me absolutely that this sort of thing is alive and well amongst aviation professionals.
Having read through what I wrote, Genghis, I am not certain how you arrived at the conclusion that I was making a point in the way you think. The point I was making is that nobody passes comment any more about men or women in such professions and I would like to see that same acceptance for women pilots ... where it is so normal, so usual, that it would not occur to anyone to ask, "Are you treated differently" a question which, in itself, implies that it is up to the men to determine the behaviour and the womens part to be subject to it.
The underlining suggestion throughout this thread has been that this is a case of women doing a men's job. The question was then asked about how they were treated as a result of that. The implication there is clear and we do not often hear people asking of male pilots how they are treated by female crew.
One contributor even went so far as to say that she was pleased to be considered "one of the guys" making it fairly clear that she considered herself to be an occupant of their territory. I think that comment came from er82 and this, to my mind, gave credence to an earlier comment by zerozero ...
In other words if her professional identity is "Pilot" first and "Woman" second then she'll do fine because for the most part guys are willing to think of her as just one of the guys.
Blue diamondYou could equally make a point however about male nurses, midwives and secretaries. On the whole however, that probably belongs in jetblast.