Looping the B74
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: London
Looping the B74
For fun, I asked about this here on pprune years ago. In amongst the very entertaining discussion, there was a link to a personal web site of an ex skipper who'd practiced the loop on his home PC and then apparently flown it to perfection in the sim after a check ride. It was a great read - ISTR he needed 20k do it top to bottom!
Anyone know if the story still exists?
Or better still, tell us about really doing it.
Anyone know if the story still exists?
Or better still, tell us about really doing it.
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,558
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From: Asia
With “Crash Inhibit” selected, you can do this on any simulator. Trouble is, the aero programme is not based upon flight test data so it cannot be determined to be correct.
I’ve tried this on literally dozens of sims and they all perform it – not 20K altitude though
I’ve tried this on literally dozens of sims and they all perform it – not 20K altitude though
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 716
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From: London
Interesting - in the sim does it 'float' over the top, i.e. even without the test data does it 'feel' correct? (dunno if you are an aeros pilot).
With regards to G load, I read one proposition which was that, if anything is going to go, it would be engine mounts first as they ought to be first point of failure vs. the wings.
Sorry if this is a bit spotter-ish but the debate is lots of fun.
With regards to G load, I read one proposition which was that, if anything is going to go, it would be engine mounts first as they ought to be first point of failure vs. the wings.
Sorry if this is a bit spotter-ish but the debate is lots of fun.
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,558
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From: Asia
Paulo,
Without real data and the absence of G forces, it really is a meaningless micky mouse activity. Impresses visitors to the sim though.
(As the only aircraft I’ve ever looped is a glider, I’ve no idea just how representative it is. I personally doubt if there is any fidelity)
Without real data and the absence of G forces, it really is a meaningless micky mouse activity. Impresses visitors to the sim though.
(As the only aircraft I’ve ever looped is a glider, I’ve no idea just how representative it is. I personally doubt if there is any fidelity)
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: London
My guess is that by the time you get over the top, you wouldn't need any help getting it 'over' 
The pull up and pull out would be fun though. Minimum loop entry is ummm 3 - 3.5 g ish?
Sorry ZFT - it's a just for fun post. I do fly aeros but don't fly heavies.
The pull up and pull out would be fun though. Minimum loop entry is ummm 3 - 3.5 g ish?
Sorry ZFT - it's a just for fun post. I do fly aeros but don't fly heavies.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,569
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From: Florida
I spoke to a fairly senior test pilot at Airbus who confirmed to me that the A310 will do a barrel roll, but who was surprisingly unforthcoming when I asked him how he knew.
They're still trying to solve that software glitch
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: UK
Joined: May 2002
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From: dubai
Loop a 747?? Of course it can be done. It's only an aeroplane, all said and done, so nothing to get too excited about.
However, when doing aerobatics in a non aerobatic A/C, the problem lies, if the A/C is overstressed, if the manoeuvre is screwed up Is the pilot that carried out this unapproved manoeuvre, going to go to engineering and say "I’ve just been aerobating this nice A/C but I think it has been overstressed it. Can you spend so many $$$ on looking it over"? Like hell!! He/she is going to clam up. There lies the problem. This applies to all A/C, not just heavies.
I know as well as you all, that aerobatics done correctly, no more G than a steep turn is put on the A/C, but when a manoeuvre is messed up and the A/C is overstressed and not reported, then someother poor
has to fly the thing. Somewhere down the road, as A/C metal has a memory better than an elephant, it will give way.
I know of a light A/C (non aerobatics) that flew to pieces, and it transpired it had been aerobated on accasions years before.
However, when doing aerobatics in a non aerobatic A/C, the problem lies, if the A/C is overstressed, if the manoeuvre is screwed up Is the pilot that carried out this unapproved manoeuvre, going to go to engineering and say "I’ve just been aerobating this nice A/C but I think it has been overstressed it. Can you spend so many $$$ on looking it over"? Like hell!! He/she is going to clam up. There lies the problem. This applies to all A/C, not just heavies.
I know as well as you all, that aerobatics done correctly, no more G than a steep turn is put on the A/C, but when a manoeuvre is messed up and the A/C is overstressed and not reported, then someother poor
has to fly the thing. Somewhere down the road, as A/C metal has a memory better than an elephant, it will give way.I know of a light A/C (non aerobatics) that flew to pieces, and it transpired it had been aerobated on accasions years before.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
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From: Arizona USA
The only 'loop' that I am aware of that was tried in a transport aircraft was an AA (if I recall correctly) DC-4 just west of KELP, many many years ago.
A deadheading pilot reached down and applied the gust lock during cruise-climb...and the aircraft was 'bent' beyond repair.
Airline flying is a wonderful way to make a living, but every once in awhile, you find some jerk that is just not satisfied with operating the normal way, and wants to experiment.
For these I say...a pox be upon 'em.
A deadheading pilot reached down and applied the gust lock during cruise-climb...and the aircraft was 'bent' beyond repair.
Airline flying is a wonderful way to make a living, but every once in awhile, you find some jerk that is just not satisfied with operating the normal way, and wants to experiment.
For these I say...a pox be upon 'em.
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Canada (Southeastern Québec)
I've looped my Beechcraft a couple of times, and yes, it's one of the rare C-23s certified for aerobatics (beefed up structure, spin fin on the bottom of the tail, strakes on the cowlings, quick-releases for the doors, and g-meter). You need to pull a constant 3.5 g's through the manoeuver.
I would NOT want to fall out of the top of a loop in a 747...but I imagine you can always reboot the flight sim.
Mike
C-GTLM
I would NOT want to fall out of the top of a loop in a 747...but I imagine you can always reboot the flight sim.
Mike
C-GTLM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,204
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From: Seattle
The pull up and pull out would be fun though. Minimum loop entry is ummm 3 - 3.5 g ish?
I suspect that a light 744 would loop with little problem at 3.5 Gs. Since it's certified at 2.5 Gs at max weight of 369 Tonnes, it should be able to withstand 3.5 Gs once at 180 Tonnes, and with 113 Tonnes of thrust, it should go over the top handily...
