Ryanair, why no 737-800 winglets?

[Flying Boat]

If this subject has been covered I am sorry but after a search I found no answer.

Can someone please explain why Ryanair do not have Winglets on their 737-800s, when other airlines do?

I may be wrong, however, I haven't seen any winglets on Ryanair 737-800s but seen them on others, for example, SAA.

I know Ryanair's reputation for being excellent at cost control and profit making so have a slightly confused picture as to why no winglets.

I learnt in my, ATPL studies, that winglets are effective at reducing wake vortices, thus reducing drag, extra fuel required for extra thrust to compensate, therefore reducing cost. I also know that they are most effective at slower speeds, higher angles of attack and therefore ideally suited to short haul flights.

At present, I can only summise that the weight gained (reducing payload) and extra cost of the winglets outweigh the rewards of fuel economy and saving.

Please can someone, even MOL, clarify my brain with regard to this point. My old Groundschool couldn't help.

Thank you.

FB

[mutt]

Guess that it has to do with sector lengths, winglets improve cruise performance, i believe that on the 738, the improvement is around 6%. However with short sector lengths, the savings may not justify the extra cost of the winglets.

Mutt.

[bacardi walla]

It involves spending money......

Now that pilots have to pay for their own accommodation while at the SIM, as well as paying to get there, and having to bring their own tea, coffee etc, I'm surprised MOL hasn't asked them to foot the bill for installing winglets so as to save him more money....

[buttline]

I heard a rumour that 737s with winglets have been limited to 250kts CAS due to some technical defect.?? If true, that would be pretty painful to endure - especially when ATC cut the corner and you need to get down quicker...

[panda-k-bear]

I think mutt has it about right. The further you fly, the more effective winglets become as they really only reduce fuel burn in the cruise (and can help hot n high take-off performance). If you were flying trans-continental U.S. for example, you'd get a good saving (6% is probably on the high side - 4.5% is a bit more like it in reality over about 3000nm).

As Ryanair fly relatively short sectors, the weight penalty doesn't outweigh the aero. benefit by much (really short sectors can actually show a penalty for winglets due to the weight) due to the relatively high amount of climb and descent expressed as a percentage of the overall block time/distance (thus taking account of taxi times). Plus it would add about 3/4 million U.S. to the price of each airplane! On the other side, they do look sexy!

[Musket90]

Must be cost. Anyway with them basing around 29 x 800s at Stansted this summer, if all were winglets the extra 1.5m wingspan would cause significant parking capacity problems.

[Paracab]

Musket90,

Are you being serious ?

How much of the time do you think the 738's will spend parked neatly next to each other in rows this summer ?

And even if they had to, I can't see STN struggling to find 43.5 metres of space either.

[Musket90]

paracab

Ryanair's based 800 fleet (plus the 6 x buzz 300s) are parked neatly next to each other in rows at Stansted overnight until they start departing after 0600.

Many of Stansted's "small" left and right stands cannot accommodate winglet 737s due extra wingspan. If winglet numbers significantly increased then present parking capacity would be impacted.

[Black Baron]

738 winglets cost US$ 100,000 each.

744 short haul Japan, no winglets; 744 Longhaul winglets

not worth expense or weight penalty on short haul.

[panda-k-bear]

BB exactly, except I believe that the option for new build machines is not 100k, but closer to 750k. That's a lot of fuel on short haul journeys that needs to be scraped back!

[BoarderDude]

Also, in the beginning when you got a non-winglet aircraft compared with a winglet-aircraft, the difference would not only be the winglet itself, but also a reinforced wing (Stiffer wing). The combo of winglet/stiffer wing gave a big advantage in fuel burn etc regarding the "softer" wing without winglets. But now every 737NG is being delivered with the wing already made stiffer. Adding the winglet makes a smaller difference now, because the stiffer wing also reduces fuel burn. So the economics have changed in that regard as well. Add the short routes etc, I think you have now a complete picture. (Someone told me this when visiting the factories at Seattle... I didn't invent this story, so don't blame me if can't reproduce it 100% correctly... )

GrTz B.D.

[EasyBaby]

I just cant resist;

You think that MoL is going to add $100,000 winglets to his planes which have just been stripped of reclining seats and window blinds?

lol

EB

[AntiCrash]

A friend at AirTran told me their new Boeing 737's will not have winglets either. He believed that they were concerned with damage to the winglets at places like LGA with the ground traffic at the terminals and all around tight fit. We operate a global trotting BBJ which had them fitted after manufacture, they do help a bit on the long hauls.

[Flying Boat]

Thank you all

Thank you for your replies.

As I thought, the initial cost outways the saving.

Once again, thank you.

FB