stowaway on AF flight Brazzaville Paris
stowaway on AF flight Brazzaville Paris
Hi, everybody,
The facts : on 10 Oct. 2003, 1H20 after departing Brazza to Paris, the AF crew was informed that a stowaway was dissimulated in the landing gear compartment - the acft was a A 330. The captain decided to continue to destination which was 6 hours away. On arrival the passenger was found dead. The autopsy revealed that the death occured well before the crew was informed of the presence of the passenger, who was a young boy.
At this time a discussion is raging on a french aviation forum, as to the decision that should have been taken and the responsability of the captain.
I would like to know you opinion on the subject.
I remember in the late sixties or early seventies a 14 years old kid successfully escaped from Cuba using the same technique and arrived safe in Madrid.
I wonder how this is feasible considering such adverse conditions over a long period of time, not to mention the probability to be crushed when the gear retracts.
ATN
The facts : on 10 Oct. 2003, 1H20 after departing Brazza to Paris, the AF crew was informed that a stowaway was dissimulated in the landing gear compartment - the acft was a A 330. The captain decided to continue to destination which was 6 hours away. On arrival the passenger was found dead. The autopsy revealed that the death occured well before the crew was informed of the presence of the passenger, who was a young boy.
At this time a discussion is raging on a french aviation forum, as to the decision that should have been taken and the responsability of the captain.
I would like to know you opinion on the subject.
I remember in the late sixties or early seventies a 14 years old kid successfully escaped from Cuba using the same technique and arrived safe in Madrid.
I wonder how this is feasible considering such adverse conditions over a long period of time, not to mention the probability to be crushed when the gear retracts.
ATN
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Just as a complete aside, if you look into the main gear bay of some aircraft there is a cavernous space within the body of the aircraft which would make stowing away possible if inhospitable.
In my personal opinion the aircraft should have landed as soon as possible in order to try and preserve the life of the stowaway.
It is possible for someone to survive a prolonged flight at altitude-just not very likely.
By the way, how did the crew find out about the stowaway?
In my personal opinion the aircraft should have landed as soon as possible in order to try and preserve the life of the stowaway.
It is possible for someone to survive a prolonged flight at altitude-just not very likely.
By the way, how did the crew find out about the stowaway?
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stowaway on AF flight Brazzaville Paris
I seem to remember once that two African lads stowed away on an aircraft bound for U.K(not sure which airports involved),they were both brothers. They jumped into the wheel bay whilst it taxied then when the landing gear retracted it crushed one of the lads while the other made it to the U.K albeit with hypothermia. I will endeavour to find a news bulletin of the incident.
I correct myself the information regarding the boys can be found athttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1216760.stm
A most extraordinary story as all stowaways in wheel bays have died from the cold.
The story can also be foundhttp://www.karibu-online.demon.co.uk...aph/130397.htm
I seem to remember once that two African lads stowed away on an aircraft bound for U.K(not sure which airports involved),they were both brothers. They jumped into the wheel bay whilst it taxied then when the landing gear retracted it crushed one of the lads while the other made it to the U.K albeit with hypothermia. I will endeavour to find a news bulletin of the incident.
I correct myself the information regarding the boys can be found athttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1216760.stm
A most extraordinary story as all stowaways in wheel bays have died from the cold.
The story can also be foundhttp://www.karibu-online.demon.co.uk...aph/130397.htm
Supercharged PPRuNer
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If I remember correctly, there was an inquest in the UK a couple of years back into the death of a stowaway on a BA flight.
I believe there was evidence that cause of death wasn’t hypothermia or hypoxia per se; what did for him was the rate of change of altitude, which was more than the body could cope with. In other words, the stowaway probably died before TOC. It may well have been the same this time.
Try a search, as it was definitely discussed here – I think Flying Laywer might have been involved in the case.
There are examples of people surviving, but they are very rare exceptions. Not a nice way to go, and you can only wonder at the lengths some people will go to for a ‘better life.’
I believe there was evidence that cause of death wasn’t hypothermia or hypoxia per se; what did for him was the rate of change of altitude, which was more than the body could cope with. In other words, the stowaway probably died before TOC. It may well have been the same this time.
Try a search, as it was definitely discussed here – I think Flying Laywer might have been involved in the case.
There are examples of people surviving, but they are very rare exceptions. Not a nice way to go, and you can only wonder at the lengths some people will go to for a ‘better life.’
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If they get really lucky and know the aircraft you can find heat sources and I assume somewhat of an air source as some have survived. They should put a button or something that is well lit up that rings the cockpit and lets the pilot know there is somebody in the gear bay. These stowaways have been known to fall out over populated areas. Would not want to get hit by a frozen person that just dropped a few thousand feet. 
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Notso Fantastic,
Are you following me?
It was more of a joke and I thought even the most casual of observers would spot that.
But, some people have lived after stowing away in the wheel well so there must be air trickling in from somewhere. Depending on the aircraft there can be a decent amount of heat in there too.
I won't even dignify your second personal attack on me.... Any idiot(oops you ride club class so you can't be an idiot) can see from reading my posts that I am an engineer. Masters Degree from MIT and all.
Are you following me?
It was more of a joke and I thought even the most casual of observers would spot that.
But, some people have lived after stowing away in the wheel well so there must be air trickling in from somewhere. Depending on the aircraft there can be a decent amount of heat in there too.
I won't even dignify your second personal attack on me.... Any idiot(oops you ride club class so you can't be an idiot) can see from reading my posts that I am an engineer. Masters Degree from MIT and all.
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I am not a professional pilot but there seems no excuse for not diverting.
However, this does not necessarily mean that the pilot is guilty of manslaughter.
Mind you, I don't know much about French law either.
However, this does not necessarily mean that the pilot is guilty of manslaughter.
Mind you, I don't know much about French law either.
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Notso
The rate of pressure change sounded strange to me as well - I'll have to do some digging.
Then again, my memory isn't what it used to be. What were we talking about?
Bingo!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=50291
Have a look at Flying Lawyer’s post (11th from the top).
The rate of pressure change sounded strange to me as well - I'll have to do some digging.
Then again, my memory isn't what it used to be. What were we talking about?
Bingo!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=50291
Have a look at Flying Lawyer’s post (11th from the top).
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Noisy,
I dont think that the French know much about French law either!
But I totally agree, they should have diverted.
If the captain knew they were there, and he continued regartless, sounds like manslaughter to me.
Where is Flying Lawyer when you need him?
I dont think that the French know much about French law either!
But I totally agree, they should have diverted.
If the captain knew they were there, and he continued regartless, sounds like manslaughter to me.
Where is Flying Lawyer when you need him?
five iron,
The captain was informed by radio 1H20 after T/O, 50' after beginning of cruise. Those are the facts.
I presume he based his decision on his assumption that the pax was already dead and he put this in the balance against all the troubles of a diversion.
Anyway it's hard to tell before the conclusions of the enquiry.
From reading all the links in this thread. it seems to me that this kind of incident happens more and more frequently and airlines should take appropriate steps, maybe a mod to block access to the bay and/or a final check by an engineer on the gound just before the plane start taxiing.
ATN
The captain was informed by radio 1H20 after T/O, 50' after beginning of cruise. Those are the facts.
I presume he based his decision on his assumption that the pax was already dead and he put this in the balance against all the troubles of a diversion.
Anyway it's hard to tell before the conclusions of the enquiry.
From reading all the links in this thread. it seems to me that this kind of incident happens more and more frequently and airlines should take appropriate steps, maybe a mod to block access to the bay and/or a final check by an engineer on the gound just before the plane start taxiing.
ATN
