So FlyBy said that it is do-able within 14 months (and I met someone who was going to finihs within 14 months when I visted) however most students apparnetly complete it in 16-18 months. So actually it's the advertised EUR75000 + EUR3700 per additional month I believe. For a small school, you may be better off spending the money elsewhere that's better known and with less presure to get it done super quickly. Having said that, it looks like a great price and the staff there were really passionate about the school when I visited.

Do you think you would be accepted in Poland? BartoliniAir have a Lauda-mentored and RyanAir-mentored ATPL for EUR60000 at the moment.

http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...hool-leon.html

You mentioned career earnings - which means you understand the importance of getting into the industry sooner rather than later. Don't be afraid of unsecured debt (in the UK at least.) The worst that can happen is that you get a black mark against your name. Work out the largest repayments you could comfortably afford and multiply that by the longest loan period to find out hour much you could borrow and save the rest.

I'm confused how you got £42,920 for zero to fATPL, why is instructor £60? Getting a PPL itself needs 45 hours of minimum hours, at stapleford its £210 per hour in a cessna 152. £210*45 for the ppl + landing fees + test fee it would set you back more than £12k, and thats just the PPL.

It's similar for Redhill aviation centre, even with their discounted training they totaled the cost of a PPL to £12k. It's on their website on the prices page.

It's just maths. Maybe follow through with a calculator.

Because you have to pay them, and schools make a lot of their profit on dual instruction. If a school charges £210 for dual and £150 for solo then you're paying (210-150=60) extra to cover the cost of the instructor. [/QUOTE]
A couple of points: Firstly there is usually a solo price and a dual price. It looks like they're charging dual for the whole 45 hours. However it's including VAT so not unreasonable. Secondly 210×45 = 9450 and Stapleford are currently offering 45 hours for £8977.50 total, including landing fees. Certainly not £12k.

Using their numbers for all the SE work and flying a Technam to save a bit more:
PPL first 45 hours £8764. SEP @£143, MEP @£450, instructor @£62:

£8764 + (143hrs x £143) + (12hrs x £450) + (67hrs x £62) = £38,767 - which is even less than my estimated figures.

Add £1000 to upgrade to a complex single for 5 hours for CPL and your total cost for aircraft, instructor and landing fees will be less than £40k (and that's at school prices! You can save a lot more by using TMG, foreign flying, non-equity share, negotiating etc).
The remaining costs will be Medical, flight tests (but not aircraft rental!), ground school, exams and licence issue.

Modular has so many advantages for me personally. Not just financial, but also flexibility and time.

Of course the point isn’t just to get a CPL-ME-IR, it’s to get a job in the RHS at the end of it.

All of the integrated course providers market their “graduate talent pool”, tagging / links with airlines.

Many of them also offer modular training with this same job-seeking support, but they charge significantly more for their modular courses.

My question is… when it comes to finding that first job, is having the support of a big training organisation like this worth paying a premium for?

In my opinion, no. Plenty of people have been screwed by Integrated or MPL courses, and plenty of people have been hired from modular. Timing is everything, and when there are few jobs, the big schools may provide more opportunities. When jobs are plentiful that advantage disappears. The best strategy for getting an airline job is to get hired by an airline in a non-flying job, preferably in the office, then work for them while you're following the modular path. It doesn't guarantee you anything, but it does increase your chances ten-fold, it puts an airline on your CV and if you need a job in the mean time then it won't hurt. Companies love a good zero to hero story for the monthly news letter. I've seen plenty of people do it that way.

A couple of points: Firstly there is usually a solo price and a dual price. It looks like they're charging dual for the whole 45 hours. However it's including VAT so not unreasonable. Secondly 210×45 = 9450 and Stapleford are currently offering 45 hours for £8977.50 total, including landing fees. Certainly not £12k.

Using their numbers for all the SE work and flying a Technam to save a bit more:
PPL first 45 hours £8764. SEP @£143, MEP @£450, instructor @£62:

£8764 + (143hrs x £143) + (12hrs x £450) + (67hrs x £62) = £38,767 - which is even less than my estimated figures.

Add £1000 to upgrade to a complex single for 5 hours for CPL and your total cost for aircraft, instructor and landing fees will be less than £40k (and that's at school prices! You can save a lot more by using TMG, foreign flying, non-equity share, negotiating etc).
The remaining costs will be Medical, flight tests (but not aircraft rental!), ground school, exams and licence issue.[/QUOTE]

RedHill's website says their PPL will cost £12k, Staplefords own website also says it will cost £50-£60k w/o type rating.

Youre missing a lot of information, stapleford has its own brochure with the breakdown of fees from zero to CPL and it is greater than >£50k. Obviously people are going to trust that more than an anonymous forum post on a website. Its their pilot training pricelist in the quick links section.

You don't need to trust an anonymous post, but you should consider it, then do your own research to confirm if it's plausible. The Reason Stapleford is saying higher figures is because they are a money making business. They will not give you the most cost effective option, they will offer the most expensive one the market will bear.

If you research the flight experience requirements for PPL, IMC, IR, CPl, MEP etc you will see that the most optimal order to do things is almost never offered by flight schools: PPL,NR,IMC,IR,MEP,MEIR,CPL.

You can take any flight school fATPL quote and reduce it by 10-20% using their own prices, simply by optimising the modules. To put it in one word - Simulators. They want you use simulators because their profit margin is 80% vs 10% in an airplane.
Simulators don't count as hour building, airplanes do.

It's not that simple any more if you want dual EASA/UK licences. I'm currently guiding a family friend through modular and it genuinely is going to be over £70k after PPL, hour building, night rating, ATPLs (both exam sets), CPL ME/IR (dual licences), UPRT and APS MCC. On top of that they could be looking at £26k Sterling for RYR. These are figures for minimum hours in the UK including equipment and fees etc.
As for PPL costs mentioned above, most are charging dual even for solo flights. £200 per hour in a 152 comes to £9k. Add in exams fees, landing fees, touch and go fees, medical, equipment and you're nearing £11k. You'll then be looking at £150 per hour solo hire in a 152 x 100 is £15k. Add £5k for dual ATPLs. That brings you to £30k for PPL, hour building and ATPL exams. Going rate for dual EASA/UK CPL ME/IR in the UK is currently £30k.
Costs have skyrocketed a lot over the past year. He is getting quoted near £2k for night rating.

Did you read any of what I wrote? Even a dual license should not cost any more than £50k. Plenty of schools offer both courses - the only thing you have to do twice is the exams, the ground school and even the flight tests can be done concurrently. It's all about the order of the modules. I can explain it for you. Unfortunately I can't understand it for you.

Raising Awareness
 

Since you have quite unique advice and beliefs on how you can make modular cheaper than the already optimistic £50k, have you ever thought about making a blog?

The pilot blogs on the internet do not have pilots suggesting it could be done cheaper than £50k , the cheapest I can think of is pilot_geeza's £56k modular training, which was 10+ years ago. ThePilotGuys creator did it in £130k total integrated. kcpilot did it in £65k modular and the PPL wasnt included since it was fully funded with a scholarship. I looked up AAFC and the cheapest ppl is £5.66k, I read on this forum that was the cheaper end of flight schools in Florida, USA.

Yes and with those schools it is now £30k for joint CPL ME/IR. £5k for ATPL theory, £10k PPL, £15k hour building and you're already at £60k without UPRT or MCC, or any extra hours needed along the way.
Add on the rest and you're at £70k to be CPL ME/IR MCC URPT. You then need travel, accommodation and general life costs on top.
This is the reality of flight training now in the UK.
Flight training, especially CPL, is well out of reach of most, no matter how hard they work. You need well off parents or a very well paying job.

The order of modules you have is on staplefords website/price breakdown too, its not exactly different. They also have the CPL last.

Don't believe everything you see. A CPL is no more than £5k, MEIR about the same and ATPL theory £2k by distance learning.

Ok look.. I'm a naturally sarcastic twa.t so that's how it comes across, but I'm genuiny trying to help:

Try to get away from this mindset of PPL, 100hrs PIC then CPL/IR.

You can absolutely do it that way if you wish, because it works and that is what the flight schools will try to sell you, however there is a better way. And by better I mean cheaper. I see from your repeated assertions that I've got my work cut out trying to steer you in the right direction but I'll try to elaborate:

Lets look at a school which gives you your CPL followed by your MEIR, you will have 200 hours PLUS 15 hours of ME training PLUS 30 hours of sim for the IR. You'll have paid for 245 hours - 215 loggable hours plus 30 sim hours that will cost almost as much as 30 airplane hours but count for very little. As someone who's been there and done it, anything over 5 hours in a sim is a waste of time but a great money maker for the schools.

If you get your IR before your CPL you'll finish with 200 hours in your logbook and save 15 unnecessary airplane hours. You will still have 30 sim hours to pay for.

If you get your IR before your CPL but via the CBIR route you'll finish with 200 hours in your logbook and you will have flown most of that in an airplane THAT YOU NEEDED TO FLY ANYWAY for the hour building, so you save yourself the sim cost. By doing the IR during your hour building, you're really only paying for the instructor.

If you get your IR before your CPL, via the CBIR route but in a single engine airplane THEN convert to MEIR, you finish with 200 hours and you will spend slightly more on test fees but you can now fly as few as 8 ME hours instead of 21 ME hour, saving up to (13 times the price difference between ME and SE)

Essentially by tweaking the order you can get the MEIR almost for free. In principle:
1) Get everything done within 200 hours
2) fly as few simulator hours as possible.
3) fly as few ME hours as possible.

If you still don't believe me, take the school's price list and compare their modular cost to the individual cost of their own courses in optimum order. Most schools really don't want people knowing this.

We have just reviewed this for Wings Alliance members because prices have been going up recently.; We make a realistic bottom-end cost to be about £57K from scratch, including APS-MCC, UPRT etc. This involves a fair bit of shopping around and does not include any travel costs to the US/Spain etc. but I think it is achievable. In the past we have had more than a few spend less than £40K to £45K. Possible training costs

Urgent advice needed!
 

Hello folks,
Where do I start? It’s seems that I really need an advice!

Recently, I started an integrated self funded programme in Hungary (4 weeks ago).
However, I feel like I made a huge mistake choosing this school.
A few weeks ago I had my first theory lessons in Principle of flight. And in my opinion the choice were clear. I don’t want to be in this school. I was very disappointed of the teachers level in English and methods of teaching.
I fulfilled my aerospace engineering degree few years ago, and even though I struggle to digest the whole material and prepare properly for the progress tests (every single week)
The whole rush, teaching atmosphere and poor living conditions make me feel very anxious. And even if my first exam was alright, I feel like I’m losing my passion to perform because of the constant pressure,poorly teaching methods,lack of communication and surrounding.
I feel so miserable every single day and I just can’t imagine the next 2 years stuck here.

What should I do ? Shall I change the school/programme (mentored) before to waste extra money?

Reasons to leave: An integrated course from a Hungarian ATO has literally all of the disadvantages (cost) with none of the advantages (connections), surely? How much have you given them and what is the refund policy?

Reasons to stay: Hungarian girls are hot.

Thank you for your fast response!

I haven’t given them anything yet. I have to make a payment up to 120 days after the start date.
The price of the whole program is 65k €. The first instalment suppose to be 15500€.

@ geryshayk can you give us a bit some detail which school is about? I'm sure lot of potential pilots want to know this... Thanx :)

[QUOTE=Hawkers;11544231]@ geryshayk can you give us a bit some detail which school is about? I'm sure lot of potential pilots want to know this... Thanx :)[/QUOTE

Sure! The school is located in Nyíregyháza,Hungry (around 4 hours by train from Budapest) The name is Trener Kft Flight academy or more famous like the “official” Wizz Air Pilot Academy.
I know that it might sound very impressive but it’s so far from how it sound.
This place isn’t worth it the money/time unless you are fully sponsored by Wizz air and you have no other options.
if you are self funded cadet - please avoid at all costs:)