Tomasiskfranco The job question is a perennial one. If I knew the answer to that, I would be sitting in the back of the jet, not flying it.
The industry is cyclical and very sensitive to economic swings, particularly so for modular students. When it's booming, there's a good chance you'll be hired reasonably quickly - assuming no glaring personality defects and the ability to fly a sim profile. Note, we have just had a boom hiring time. If you can keep your costs under control, that leaves you with options to take lower paying jobs to gain experience and contacts. The beauty of modular is you can delay doing the Instrument Rating (the most expensive part of the whole thing, with the exception of a type rating) until there's a clear upturn in hiring.

Low houred pilots are always at a disadvantage when it comes to hiring. The competition is fierce.
Getting the timing right is paramount if you're not flush with cash. The ATPLs have a clear time limit otherwise you need to do them again if you haven't got an CPL licence with an IFR (aka "frozen" ATPL).

I should say the ATPL exams have a time limit before they expire.

This is an important point. The ATPL exams will eat up the bulk of your time. You (can) get a PPL in a month and CPL/IR in two months, but the exams will take take you 6-12 months realistically which is about 80% time wise. You really don't want to have to do them again just because you ran out of money and timed out. You can mitigate this by getting your CBIR then CPL. A single engine IR will still freeze the ATPL.

Hi,

Could you tell me the name of the school near Dublin?

Thanks,

Leo

I'd be surprised if he isn't talking about the National Flight Centre out near Leixlip.

For anyone who has actually completed a full time integrated course from any flight school, would you be able to advise how long it took you in total to complete the course?

I ask because most integrated courses sell it as between 14 - 18 months, but from discussions with different cadets it seems like the total duration is much longer than this. I wonder if this is specific to certain FTOs or if this is just an industry thing.

€19,000 for an MEIR sounds crazy to me.

I don’t know what it is that’s tying you to doing your hour building in Ireland but if you can be a bit more flexible with where you do the training then you can get a MEP, MEIR and CPL for almost the same price as you are quoting for just doing MEIR. There’s a few good schools in Poland.

I’ve seen Rudestuff advising that you can save a bit by doing SEIR first so maybe read back on some of his posts.

You can do your PPL and hour building in a local flying club and do your ATPL theory here in Ireland or by distance learning with a foreign school. That only means you would have to go abroad for the time it takes to do MEP, MEIR and CPL (less than three months I would think).

Can someone please check my maths?
 

Hello all. Having spent a good time reading through this very useful forum I’ve done some research and put together a plan. However I’d appreciate any advice on this and if I’m way out…

PPL - 45hrs, £7k.
(Over next 18mths fly x4/mth while doing ATPL)
ATPLs - £3k.
Night rating - 5hrs @£195 instructed, £1k.
UPTR - 5hrs, £1.4k.
IR(r) - 15hrs @£195, £3.5k.
Fly solo IFR - 15hrs @£160, £2.4k
SEIR ‘top up’ course - 10hrs @£225 instructed £2.3k. (I now have SEIR)

(18mths later total 65hrs over weekends (£4k) & total 160hrs flight time)
MEP - 6hrs @£500, £3.5k.
MEIR ‘top-up’ course - 5hrs @£500, £2.5k. (MEIR now achieved).
Solo hour build - 24hrs @£160, £4k. (Now at 195hrs).
CPL - 25hrs @£225 instructed, £8k.
APSMCC - £5k.

A grand total of 220 hrs & £47,600.

To clarify the PPL is only £7k due to scholarships. My club has cheap rental of £160 solo hire and £195 with instructor. £225/hr is with another school as my club doesn’t offer some ratings. The numbers might be a bit out due to rounding.

To get a MEIR, am I correct in thinking that I can get an IR(r) doing 15hrs instructed. Then fly solo 15hrs under IFR and then doing 10hrs instructed training to get a full SEIR? After this, doing a MEP (6hrs) and then doing a 5hrs ‘top up’ course instructed to convert SEIR to MEIR?

Thanks in advance to any responses. :)

Assuming this is accurate and still valid (I'm guessing yes) then this should really be a seperate sticky post instead of this whole thread from 2010 onwards.

You are too kind ☺️

rudestuff is this a reasonable estimate?

It's quite reasonable, but not exactly optimal. if I may critique:
7k is a bargain for a PPL while 160 seems a little high for hour building (but obviously you're limited to what's available nearby).
Why 220 hours? You could shave 20 hours off the total and make it 200 hours.
If you already hold an IR then the CPL course is only 15 hours.
I would try to use the same aircraft for IRR and CBIR so I would expect the rate to be the same.
Don't forget to include successful flight tests in your PIC and total times (and flight test and licencing fees in your budget!)
Your PIC hours add up to 114 (10 PPL + 15 IMC + 65 + 24) so you can knock off 20 hours and add in 6 for testing etc. You only need 100.
Your PIC and XC hour building will need to be adjusted slightly and slotted into the training program to reflect the prerequisites of each course.

Follow a few simple rules to make your training easier:
1. Know what you need to log and don't waste flight hours: an ideal flight hour would be PIC cross country. In IMC. At night.
2. Don't learn anything in the airplane. You're not paying by the hour to learn, you're paying to practice. (Learning is free.)
3. Backseat at every opportunity.
4. Chair fly.

And remember this is just a plan. It's what you hope will happen. Reality will jump in and F*ck !!!!! up for you.

Can anyone advise on using two schools to get where I need?

I have found a school near me that will do everything up to Meir but I am on a waiting list to join as they are at full capacity.

There is another school which is on my doorstep but only does PPL and Imc/night rating but is £125 an hour so would be ideal as a source to hour build. I would just use the other flying school to do ME and cbir se/me. Do flight schools generally allow you to come in like that or do they prefer you to be from the beginning?

For me being 38 time is of the essence. Ideally I want to be done in two years by my 40th. I would be planning to do as many hours as I can get a week as I already have the funds needed.

I am planning to visit both in person during the week to discuss with both flying schools but thought I would ask here first if anyone has done similar?

So, I am 20 years old, live in Hertfordshire, done A level, and worked for a couple of years a software engineer apprentice in a large multinational company, before that I worked for a year in retail (part-time) and with my saving and parent support now in the position to start training to achieve fATPL full time. I've started a few PPL lessons, but still undecided whether to go modular or integrated. I've read in details the post and suggestion regarding modular vs integrated here. And I think my option down to the following:

Modular
PPL in local flying school, as cheap and as quickly as possible.
NR, IR(R)
ATPL theory (dual licence, BGS)
Hour buildings as suggested by rudestuff
50 hours, then SE-IR
20 hours, the MEP+ME-IR
30 hours, SE-CPL
(please advise school for the CPL-ME-IR that are reputable but accommodative to the approach, Stapleford? Aero seems to be not getting good review here)
APS-MCC (thinking about going to VA)
Realistic employer: Ryan Air (dual licence+30K TR), Wizzair (dual licence+30K TR), LoganAir (UK CAA)-bonded TR, Jet2 (UK CAA)-bonded TR. Other employer with smaller opening Aurigny, Titan. Small chance for BA, and super slim chance to go to Easyjet.

MPL
Easyjet Generation, issue with delays, but cost wise I think would be similar to modular (TR cost considered, modular to RYR and Wizz probably more expensive)

Integrated (most expensive and no guarantee of jobs, but might be more predictable?)
It seems only two are reliable enough
Skyborne, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet
FTE Jerez, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet

Considering the relatively good job market at this moment, My preference is as follow:
1. EasyMPL, for the overall cost and conditional job offer. Need to mentally prepare with the delay though
2. Modular, get fATPL ASAP, aiming end of next year (super optimistic I know), get into the job market asap when the it's still good.
3. Skyborne, haven't heard a bad thing about them in pprune, but just super expensive.

Need your input to validate/challenger my approach.

Regards,
F

Skybus are looking for 7 FOs at the moment. When Skybus are going to flight schools looking for people to assess it's because they're hemorrhaging people to better jobs and you know the market is good. Timing is everything in aviation. Tagged/MPL schemes are the safest but also the most expensive. Failing that go for the quickest - which could also be the cheapest.

Hello all, is it idiotic to get the PPL done + NVFR followed by 100 hours of PIC time and then take a break to earn more money + ATPL theory and finish all the other modules later in time?

Hi.
Please can someone with recent experience give an opinion on a modular training plan.
What is a realistic time frame to complete all the flying including PPL ( ATPL Exams already passed )
Full time in the UK.
Thanks

This is 'traditional' modular. It works but it's not optimal in terms of cost or training benefit. Doing all your hour building as a VFR PPL in one go means that you have no extra hours to keep current between modules later on, and you may end up inadvertently doing too much. At the very least get an IMC and hour build with that (it counts towards your IR) and save some hours for later - you'll want to practise CPL profiles etc. Also don't forget you get at least 10 hours PIC for your PPL, and you'll also log PIC for every flight test you pass (PPL, IMC, CBIR, MEP, MEIR) so account for those.

That's a unique position to find yourself in

That shouldn't be possible, that's the reason for the sarcastic remark above your reply.

If you are going Modular then you must have an ICAO PPL to start ATPL theory.

It is possible though rare that you start on an Integrated course and complete all your ATPLs but then for whatever reason decide to switch to Modular.
Your ATPL or CPL theory exams will then be credited towards your PPL. See UK CAA FCL.035.b