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Flight Academy Blackpool
Hi
I have been looking for some hour building aroung the North West and rang Flight Academy at Blackpool. They claim to be the cheapest, busiest, newest training facility, hmmmm!!! I did some costings and this is what I have come up with 6 month upfront joining fee @ £110 pcm = £660 12 hours flying over 24 month (min) @ £70ph = £840 monthly Standing order of £110 x 24 = £2640 12 landings over 24 months@ £15per Landing = £180 This making a grande total of £4320 if I divide this by 12 my hourly charge is £360 per hour, I think not !!! nice try I rang Westair at Blackpool and for 12 hours in their PA28 it came out at £1752, a discount was offered for the payment (on account). Needless to say a saving of £2568 and no upfront deposits or standing orders! Does any one know where I may get a PA28 or similar around the North West for a deal?? Pm me := |
try the same maths,
100 hours in 2-3 months and its cheaper. why would fly once a month :ugh: |
Pony2, it has been said before and will be said again. Be very careful before you start throwing quite offensive accusations about. This is a very small industry and reputations good and bad travel far.
As for your 'costings', well youre either not very good with numbers or missed the point of the AGL scheme. I suspect both. Firstly, the £660 up front is a deposit. You get it back. So take that out. Secondly, you quite bizzarely included landing fees in one calculation and not the other. Take that out. Last of all, if you only want to fly 12 hours every 24 months, why the hell did you bother getting your PPL? (assuming you have one) This scheme was set up to cater to those who are either hour buliding towards their CPL or have a PPL and want to fly on a regular basis (not 0.5 hours per month like yourself). If you do the maths based on what the scheme was designed for, you will find an hourly rate which the US will find hard to compete with. Costing example for someone flying 60 hours a year (a proper one): 12 months subscription at £110 per month: £1320 60 flying hours at £70 ph: £4200 Total: £5520. Divide by 60 gives you £92 ph. Wet. For a new Archer III with dual G430. Or brand new G1000 C172. Thats only for 5 hours per month. The more you fly, the cheaper it gets. FAB and AGL are run by a very efficient and friendly bunch of people. The group members all have their heads screwed on. You probably wouldn't have fitted in anyway. Ps: I am not employed by FAB or AGL. I am not even a member. Just sticking up for a good product. EK |
I have been looking for some hour building aroung the North West I'm a group member and i fly a few times a week. From my point of view its cheap with good availability and a friendly atmosphere. Everything I want out of a flying school. What a pointless thread :ugh: |
Anyone know of a similar deal in the south of England ? I don't need the hours but at that price it would be rude not to:p
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Panshanger EGLG
Aircraft grouping limited. C172R |
Is your deposit held in a separate trust account or will it be lost if the school goes t*ts up? If its not in a trust account why not? What is the deposit for anyway? I could understand keeping a bit of cash on account to stay in the black but what purpose does a deposit serve towards hour building? There are far to many schools using advance monies and deposits to pay the day to day running costs. Hence when the cash stops coming in the door things go pear shaped pretty quick.
I would say counting on "losing" your deposit is probably a wise move. |
Phil' : thanks.
PKB... "What is the deposit for anyway?" probably in case you bend the aircraft or rack up a load of landing fees, sounds reasonable to me. |
Flight Academy Blackpool(Scam)
Hi
The workings I had done above were the min required by the CAA for Licence validity. I have spoke with Flight Academy Blackpool again and they say you need to fly at least every 6 weeks in order not to have to undertake a check ride, so I have reworked the above assuming 50 hours in 12 months. Deposit 6 months £660 50 hours @ £70 = £3500 50 landings @ £15 = £750 12 months Standing Order = £1220 Totals £6130 or £123 per hour Westair are offering their Warrior at £146 per hour including landing Fee So £7300 but they are offering a discount of 10% so £6570, so £440 more, but no deposit of £660 and no standing order of £110 pcm and no time limit, with Flight Academy every month you go over another £110 needs finding !!!:{ |
At the end of the day its each to their own, if your going to do the hours FAB/AGL is cheap. If your only planning on doing enough to stay current then its not.
What I will say though is that as a member of the 4 seat group at AGL you have access to 2 Archers with twin GNS430 (a step up on a warrior) and 2 172' one of which is a G1000. All the aircraft are in excellent condition and you have (as an AGL member) access to the discounted rates at FAB which are VERY competitive. Geez, its starting to sound like a sales pitch now...... To close, it suits me and many others very well but everyone is different and have differing requirements/needs. Its not a scam as previously stated, it just doesn't suit you. Phil P.S. To rent the PA28 direct without being a group member is 125+14.76 landing fee which is 139.76. No monthlys. |
I built some 98 hours with AGL on the C172R when it was at Barton, I even flew it as far as Spain (mmm.. VAT free fuel!)
I paid £110 a month for 6 months, but with a deposit of the same that I got back - in full. I then paid £60 an hour wet. I did a few circuits, but mainly land aways. Don't factor in landing fees because you have to pay those whatever you fly, Westair, FAB, AGL or rent from Santa. £60 x 98 = £5880 wet + £660 maintenance ----- £6540. If I rented with someone else, even at £110 an hour wet (which is very reasonable and probably too cheap for a new C172) i'd be looking at £10780. I make that a saving of (drum roll)..... £4240 Horgy |
Group flying.
Pony2
Check your PM's. Cheers Ponsh :ok: |
I too have built over a hundred hours with agl and have been a member since day one . It is a fanstastic group with state of the art aircraft and facilities . If there is a scam there, its bloody well hidden. All i can say to the ill informed troll that started this post is get your facts staright before you post crap like yours , and take a copy of it with you if ever you do try and join agl . I for one would rather the group didnt have a member like you .
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hey
your getting a right name for your self so grow up and enjoy your flying i am a meaber at AGL and i love it its great and the planes are new as you get in the uk for that money so stop bi*ching and start flying maybe you will make a pilot that way from charlie
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On Going fairy Tale
I have been asking when Flight Academy are suppose to get their approvals, IR, CPL, FIC the owner keeps saying next week !!!! he has been saying this since September 2007.
Bumped into a poor guy who had prepaid £6000 in cash for the CPL, 12 months ago +, he said he kept ringing to speak to the owner who was always in meetings !! Not got his money back and not done the training. Maybe something else is going on or worse going down :{:{:{ |
There is obviously some mis-information going on here. The only school at Blackpool who cannot issue the training they claim to be able to administer is flybpl.com owned by an individual who cannot resist advertising himself very verbally and also on his website for things he is not licensed to do.
Examples:- 2 week PPL:- Great if you have a lease with the airport which enables you to do training but he does not. His lease is for an air taxi operation for which he does not have an AOC! Charter:- On the subject of charter, it seems like this individual continues to flout the law as regards illegal public transport. Obviously he is always a paying participant in these flights, just like the one he did yesterday in G-EEJE. By the way this charter operation claims it can service 2-200 people. How many can you fit in a PA28?? How many elephants can you fit in a mini! 4 Day IMC:- Nice thought if the instructor (RM) had an IMC rating in order that he could teach it himself. Last intelligence on that subject was that he hasn't got one because of the fact that NONE of the examiners based at Blackpool would do his test for him. Burn't some bridges!!! Banner Towing:- Can't be completed by someone who doesn't own an aircraft capable of banner towing, the only other banner towing operation on the airport are well aware of his claims which may be referring to their operation but certainly cannot be provided by him. Helicopter training:- Show us your helicopter! LOL Commercial and multi training:- No F.T.O. talk about pot calling kettle sooty A**se! At least FAB do have their FTO status but flybpl definitely does not!!! How can RM be so hypoctricical as to spread such falsehoods about others whilst blatently advertising to be an FTO when he clearly IS NOT! Most of the aircraft advertised on his website are owned by people who no longer want anything to do with him. Furthermore the claims made verbally by him of his associations with various companies and individuals all exist only in the mind of the man himself. Most of the people he has upset on the airport have also been grassed by him to the CAA. Unsuccesfully! It seems RM that you should stop making false accusations and claims of your status, and begin trading fairly although your reputation in the industry obviously proves you are not capable of this. Flight Academy, Aircraft Grouping and the like are all honest respectable companies who operate within the law and within the constraints of good business practice. This is why they had to get rid of the above named individual because his reputation prohibited their growth. He is a banned company director and has proven many times in the past that he is a failure. Sour grapes now prevail and he insists on generating threads like this under strange and varied user names. Jealousy is not an attractive trait RM. The word defacto CFI springs humorously to mind when talking about this individual and the misery he has caused with his false claims and dillusions of grandure. FAB, AGL and SMS continue to trade reputably despite these ridiculous lies generated by one very bitter and jealous individual. Rob by name, Rob by nature! |
pony2,
It's clear that your bizarre campaign against AGL is not working! I too am a member, I am using the PA28's for hour building. The planes are very new compared to most training a/c in the UK, and kept in tip top order, the rates are very reasonable too. There is no scam. I used to hire an old tatty PA28 from another flying school in the Northwest, it cost me £126 per hour plus landings, it was so old it didn't have footbrakes and the trim wheel was on the roof! You should really get your facts clear before making such claims. It seems since other posters have made things a little easier for you to understand, you have changed tactics and brought in a 3rd person to attack their CPL/IR training. They may well not be setup for CPL/IR yet, if that's the case then I find it hard to believe that anyone with any sense would hand over £6000 for a course that doesn't exist! Grow up |
I too am a member and have been for a couple of very happy years.
The system works well, and if you can get a group together then there is scope for placing an aircraft where needed. Many people have been in the AGL group who are now flying professionally. If the usage is low for you 12 hrs in 2 years, then its not economic for you and is by no means a scam. We need more schools with the ability to offer lower rate flying like we have here, and less idiots posting such rubbish on here. |
Interesting . I have been a member of AGL for almost as long as it has existed . So far it has done everything it has set out to do and nothing it claims will happen , hasnt .
There does seem to be one chap who keeps changing his screenie who has it in for FAB . All I can say is , count the number of aircraft , students , group members and other satisfied customers you have coming through your door , and then compare it to that of FAB/AGL . In fact where are your premises ??? FAB does have approval for CPL and the gentleman in question who allegedly paid his 6 grand , did so for hour building and not a CPL , during the course of this hour building he built up a 2 grand bill for unpaid fuel and landing fees which he now owes FAB . Facts should be straight before putting fingers to keyboards . Remember "Rather to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt" |
What a pathetic thread!!
Pony 2 should gallop off into the sunset and do a Shergar, that would please everybody! Helen49 |
I'm using FAB/AGL. Nothing but praise, very welcoming, good aircraft (compared to other schools), good instructors, good prices and the bar is great :)
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Think when you do the sums correctly you'll find FAB a brilliant club. Im currently hour building with them in a AGL group and couldnt find flying anywhere cheaper!
Landing fees are a variable costs as they differ from different airfields so that shouldnt be part of your argument. deposit is refundable, just give notice of leaving! I compared FAB with all the clubs at Blackpool and FAB came up the best option for a real flyer hour building more than 12 hrs in 2 years! Its an insult to the club for people to throw stupid accusations about without the full understanding! Maybe an apology is in order....:ok: |
This story about the guy who paid £6,000 over a year ago and hasn't had a refund worries me slightly. I paid FAB/AGL £6,500 in November 2007 on the understanding that they would have their approvals through by late spring 2008, in the mean time I would do my hours building with them. The approvals never came sadly, but no worries, I did my hours building and moved on to another school, no refund required as I had got the hours I needed and any further money was going to be for the actual training. I finished my training last year and am now an FO with a UK based Turboprop operator. If the guy who allegedly paid the £6,000 is in fact supposed to be me, then, well you've got it wrong. Admittedly I wasn't happy with the smoke and mirrors surrounding the much promised approvals, they never came through and I had to train elsewhere at an increased cost, but I did get the hours that I paid for.
FAB/AGL has some flaws, but they are not major and they are by no means scamming anyone. Least of all me! My only real gripe lies with the fact that I have been emailing them since August to cancel my membership but they still haven't and I have some fuel that I paid for which was never credited to my account. Oh, and I haven't seen my £710 deposit back yet! Generally though, I was very happy with their service and these problems are to be expected of a new, growing company that is going through a lot of transition. |
Before i joined OAA i went to visit FAB and i was bitterly disappointed. After finally locating the front door i went in (i wish i haden't). I won't go into the details but in the 10 minutes i was there before getting thrown out of the door it looked and sounded like a complete mess! Instructors were complaining and i also was told they would definetly have their approvals by a certain date - they didn't!
Stway away IMO. |
Fab/agl
Nothings perfect but where else can you get well equipped, latest generation aircraft for the money?
I joined AGL a few months ago after a few years of group ownership - AGL even bought our aircraft from us and I got back the full value of my share. Now I don't have to worry about unexpected maintenance bills. The facilities are the best at Blackpool and for this sort of organisation the best I've seen - ever. I'm not an hours builder but as a hobby flyer it fits the bill. :) |
FAB have approvals for virtually everything now , anyone with any nouse in aviation should know that the CAA very rarely give deadlines . If FAB said they will be getting approvals soon you shouldnt be holding them to a specific date .
Heli hope you enjoy getting the same qualification for an extra 40 grand at OAA . Their marketing still very good then |
Scam
This organization is a joke, its a scam!
Basically, they quotted me a price before I decided to go and when I showed up, all of suddenly the prices had gone up. By the way; they charge you the same price for flying solo as flying dual. Their excuse is that the instructors still has to be there when you fly solo, well this is the case in every flight school around the world, but you do not see them charging the same price for solo as dual during the PPL faze. They are full of it, trust me.... Heard somebody also got screwed for the deposit that has to be payed as a member, I have also heard rumours from a source within the organization that the school is going bankrupt which is why that person decided not to work there anymore. I am not suprised, do yourselves a favour and keep your money. If you give them any money you may not see the lights of it ever again. Be aware this organization is also blacklisted.. Hope this helps. |
you do not see them charging the same price for solo as dual during the PPL faze. |
This thread has just made me want to start up my training to finish my PPL there (10 hours to go) and exams etc....£92 per hour is better than the area I live in...so i am going to have a look at that place :)
I bet they throw in the headset use too unlike some usa JAA places |
Someone needs to change the title of this thread, because AGL Blackpool shows this bad remark at the top of google...
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Ok, here goes.
If a well regarded ppruner makes a comment critisising FAB and is willing to enter into senible discussion about their point of view, then fine. Take notice of what they say and use it to decide whether FAB is the fight FTO for you. However, if a username with no previous posts randomly starts ripping into FAB with bizzare and vague stories, disregard it. It is a sad individual with a reputation for having a big red nose and face paint. Of course, like all other clowns, his posts are good for a cheap laugh. FYI, it is standard practice for a solo STUDENT to pay the instructional rate as they are flying on the FI's license. EK |
Hesam Jet, If you manage to find an instructor that will send you solo, on his/her licence, while they bite their nails watching you out of the window, FOR FREE. Let us know who it is. I will buy him a drink.
SF |
I've known a bunch of clubs which charge instructor rates whist you fly solo in training!! They can't fly someone else when they are technically working with you as you are flying on their licence.
Stop spreading incorrect information on something you obviously know nothing about. Get a the right story and get a grip! Your stupid incorrect rants could be affecting peoples choices in training which make them worse off and you also seem not bothered about peoples jobs at fab! |
FAB have approvals for virtually everything now , anyone with any nouse in aviation should know that the CAA very rarely give deadlines . If FAB said they will be getting approvals soon you shouldnt be holding them to a specific date . Heli hope you enjoy getting the same qualification for an extra 40 grand at OAA . Their marketing still very good then I won’t defend going to OAA (as it’s been done to death on here) or spending the extra money but they have delivered what they promised on time and that for me is worth the additional investment. With regards to your claim that FAB have approvals for virtually everything now, anyone considering flight training with FAB should check out this official document from the UKCAA: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Doc%203...rsion%2091.pdf This is my last post on this subject. I would advise anyone training with FAB to do their research. Good luck. ;) |
To Hesam.Jet
If you do your research properly, you will find that every school will charge you dual flight time for every flight, Dual and Solo, while you are still PPL training. This is basically due to the fact that you don't have a license and you are effectively flying on your instructors license. The instructor has to be there to sign you out and when you end your flight. All this is part of an instructors duties and therefore has to be paid for. |
Where is GGFPB
Hi
Rang the office today to book Archer GGFPB told it was on Maintenance, I know different ! it has been sold! how are the No Equity members going to take this? all paying their monthly subs and no aircraft :{ |
The Man who knows eh AKA the man who knows Fxxx All , first time poster as well i see well here goes
PB has been sold PC is about to be sold PB is on the booking system but is clearly posted as UNAVAILABLE you will notice it is a different legend to that when the aircraft is normally on maintenance PC wont be soon These aircraft are being replaced by SR20's That is how it is , that is factual up to date and beyond contestation . Any rebuttle from the newly named "Pilloch who knows very little" Ps if you knew the aircraft had been sold why did you try to book it ???? Axxhole! |
Registration Details
Mark: G-GFPB Current Reg. Date: 29/10/2007 Previous ID: De-Reg. Date: 20/05/2009 Status: De-registered To: FINLAND Reason: Transferred to another country or authority |
SR20s
Yer right can see these type available to hire out of Barton during the winter months, ask Alan Sugar LOL:D
Same price I hope £110pcm and £70 an hour wet inc ???????? doubt it:{ Hold on where is SV, I need to borrow another £200K and I will pay you back £250K in 4 weeks. |
Ahh suddenly everything becomes clear , I think max was hinting at the right guy , new screename same old RM , why dont you get a life
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