Maximum, now I see where you’re coming from, and I understand your reaction.

The reality checks here are sobering ( :O ). Sadly, I believe the mindset attached to the management of the lo-co’s with their lower margins etc. are here to stay and I’d be surprised if things change much for the better. I guess what you describe is the norm rather the exception with the lo-co’s.

The problem is that I’m a coward. Having spent the amount of money that I have on training I can’t turn to my wife and say “Sorry I blew that £60k darling (that bigger house you deserve, and all those nice holidays…..), but I’ve decided that I’m not going to be a commercial pilot after all” That just wouldn’t be fair.

I think that this is what you’re up against in trying to give us a realistic view from the flight deck. I don’t think (most) wannabes dismiss your advice out of hand, it’s stupid to ignore the people who know, but no matter how it’s depicted or perceived, I’m just going to have to find out for myself. Then and only then will I feel justified saying to myself and my wife and family, “OK I did it, it’s crap, I’ll cut my losses and consider it as a gamble that didn’t suit me. Now wasn’t there a job at McDonalds going?”

Then, Maximum, Towers, Scroggs et al I shall buy you all a beer (or a burger) and you can say “I told you so” as often as you like!! :)

Hey Snigs, you've already bought me the bourbons. :E
If you want to go "ahhhhh" have a squizz at the pics on my website. There's stuff there that the jet jockey's will never see. (I should update it though)
As Maximum and Scroggs have said, the flying is great fun. It's the management weeners that make the job suck.

Already seen your website, impressive stuff!! :D

I still chuckle at your story about "bombing" a suspect vessel... :cool:

Highs and lows
 

I also have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Some of the replies have made me laugh and cry in equal measure. I only really wanted to chip in and talk a little about how my flight training has started to seemingly prepare me for the 'life after', having read what has already been laid down by the experienced.

I'm on an integrated course - Started just after the new year back in early 2003. We were 20 at the start, six months after the off, we were down to eleven, so perhaps Tom, Dick and Harry weren't on my course.

Groundschool was an amazing experience. It was obviously very similiar to being at school but with a great big point to it. I say this as I'm eleven years past A levels and eight past a degree and never, regretfully, studied aviation related topics to a higher level back then. However, over the first six months of groundschool, I lost touch with a number of friends and never had the time to enjoy the former life and social habits that I once enjoyed. I simply locked myself in my room and read...and read...and read. Phase 1 passed and it was on to the first stage of flying, CPL level.

My first phase of flying was conducted overseas and lasted for four months. Just before I departed, I split with my girlfriend of five years. What can I say...

Passed the CPL first time though.

After returning to the UK it was on to Phase 2 groundschool. Met a new Flame who flies for a major too!

Very hard to get started again. Had no Xmas as well for JAA exams were in January! But a couple of quick months passed and before I knew it, all fourteen subjects in the bag. A great achievement but very few people to share it with (class mates aside). No one from my former life understood! For the past nine months, time had stood still for them.

Great...on to the IR then...

My instructor, an ex 747 training captain, likes to be wheels up at 7.30am...first slot of the day stuff here (no 'passenger only' instructor either...). I wake at 5am to ensure we make make our departure slot, but hark...the de-ice team are late - yikes, the mass and balance spreadsheet has crashed-got to do it by hand! Worse still, you've walked all the way out to the aircraft on the apron and the fuel strainer has vanished! Tick-tock...

The cockpit environment frequently can resemble boot camp. Lose 50 feet, ouch. Slow in selecting a nav frequency, ouch. 3 degrees off heading - ouch!

Just like to say I had a great Valentines day this year. Shame the Flame had to get up on Sunday 15th Feb at 4am to get to EGKK by 6am...

Got my IR next week, so fingers crossed. Got no past job waiting for me either.

Happy - not sure.

Unhappy - not sure.

Unsure - very sure...

Oh and by the way, if you thought breaking up with a girl after 5 years was bad, here's a gag...

I phoned up a really gorgeous ex-girlfriend of mine the other day. We lost track of time, chatting about the wild nights we used to enjoy together. I couldn't BELIEVE it when she asked if I'd like to meet up and maybe rekindle a little of that magic.

"Wow!" I said "I don't know if I could keep pace with you now! I'm a bit older and a bit balder than when you last saw me!"

She giggled and said she was sure I'd meet the challenge! "Yeah," I said, "Just so long as you don't mind a man with a waistband that's a few inches wider these days!"

She laughed and told me to stop being so silly! She teased me, saying she thought tubby bald men were cute!

"Anyway", she said, "I've put on a couple of pounds myself!"

So I hung up.

Cheers...

Craggs

Hello all,
I'm new here, I've been reading for a while but this is my first post.

To those who have had a previous career outside aviation and have made the transition to airline pilot (or visa-versa), I was wondering whether you regret making the change?

Some here seem to be trying to compare the benefits/drawbacks of an airline career with those of other careers. I don't wish to draw comparisons between various careers. I'd just be interested to know if, given the chance to start from scratch, would people who have experienced flying and another career rather be working for an airline or working in their other occupation.

DHdragon

P.S. - To those who run/contribute to these forums, its a great resourse, thanks alot!

That is an interesting question..
I was a lab technician at a university in Sydney, Australia.
In the 10 years that have passed since I left there I would have got myself a degree in any thing. So I would have been able to be promoted higher or left that course of employment. I most certainly would have paid off my mortgage and probably moved to a much better place. I would have saved a fortune on gym fees and food. ($10 a year at uni.) I would have had guaranteed 7 weeks off per year and known my "roster" 6 months in advance.
In other words, financially I would have been streets ahead. Uni didn't pay brilliantly, when I left I was earning $A28K 10 years ago. It would have been about $A35K or more 4 years ago. When I left Australia to come to the UK, I was earning $A40K as a turboprop pilot(FO).
Yes, I have had a fun career but it has left me perilously short of funds for my retirement. I have only 26 years left to set myself up for that.
Would I do it again? At the age when I started yes, however, I would do things differently. Would I start now at 38? No.

What an interesting thread this has turned out to be.:) It is good to see the objective views about a pilot career.
One thing that seems very prevailent though, is splitting up from the girlfriend/wife. I have known this for a long time, but the point has be reiterated on this forum. Its quite shocking for me; I have been going out with my girlfriend for 3 years, I couldn't split up with her. In fact, I am determined to have an aviation career and to keep my partner happy.
Is there anyone out there that has trained from 0hrs to employed pilot, without the pilot career being the cause of the brake-up? I am sure there is, but it would be nice to hear of some success stories for a change :ok:

Just a note from one of last years wannabies.

The job, is it what I expected?

err no not really.

All the things i thought were going to be major parts of my day arn't really.

The flying side of things only really accounts for about 30% of the days work. The rest is pre flight planning, legalities of if you are allowed to launch or not. Various cockups in ground handling, rush bags, catering, ops wanting things, tech problems etc etc.

The point where you get gear up is usually the easy bit. Getting from A to B safe is lacking the same drama as on the ground. Some times its a bit hair raising and you have to work hard other times its not like working at all.

Now the tiredness working a 800-900 hour year as an FO compared to the same number of hours instructing is incomparable. Which is why I proberly why i am feeling more alive than at any point since I started training.

As for the dumping the partner thing, yes I did that as well. Better do it sooner rather than later. Flying is a way of life which dosn't fit with normal jobs. Its the same with policing and any other 24h service industry. Which is maybe why so many IT types do so well in the industry, their hours actually get better. The hours i am working now are about 70% less than as a contractor and they are alot better planned as well. But then again i may be lucky getting a faily stable roster for 4 weeks 2 weeks in advance.

Am I still glad I became a pilot, hell yes.

But you do get out of the job what you put into it.
Personally i can't be arsed moaning about everything I knuckle down and get on with it, and try and learn as much as I can. But I havn't been on line for a year yet and don't have any idea what it was like in the good old days.

So in summary

I work less hours than I have done in the previous 10 years of my working life
I get a great buzz out of going to work (always wake up before the alarm)
And I am doing a job which if had been possible before I went to Uni I would have done at the age of 17 instead of 30.

MJ

Be prepared to be the person who wears the trousers in the relationship.

My partner told me I had to wear them. :}

Maybe another reason other than the hours is the technically oriented subject matter, constant need for research, training as well as the extremely flexible mindset that goes with a successful IT career.

There are people who've managed to keep the same partner throughout their careers in airlines, but they are few and far between. I'd venture to say that the majority of those are survivors from an earlier, less pressured, era.

I know of almost no-one who's joined the industry in the last 5 or 6 years who's managed to keep their marriage going. There's no support for relationships in this industry; when you're away, your partner is on their own. They either learn to survive the single life, doing all the jobs that you once did for the household, or they ship out. They usually ship out, I'm afraid.

This is one of the most fundamental differences between the airlines and the military, where I did 22 years. In the military, there was a support system for spouses left behind. Social occasions included those left on their own; the much-decried wives clubs kept an eye out for all the vulnerable ones and made sure they were looked after. The burdens were shared. That just does not happen in the airlines (nor, I'd guess, in most other careers).

Would I have joined the airlines if I'd known more about what it's really like? No, I probably wouldn't.

Well I'll be the awkward one as usual then!

I think being an airline pilot is a great job and beats the vast majority of others. I'm not just being contrary - everything I say now I have said before on these pages.

I've just counted, for Jan, Feb and Mar I've worked 16 days a month average. I've been home every night between midnight and 4am or else I've been in a hotel full of crew on training and therefore in the pub or restaurant until cough o'clock.

I gross about £46,000 a year which is more than just about any of my mates apart from the one who works in London for a bank. He's just bought a £400,000 flat that fits inside mine twice and he's had to go halves with his brother.

My other friends in decent jobs all hate them. Another one just this year qualifying as a GP is going to be £130,000 in debt when he buys into a practice later this year and he's 30 and doesn't own a house. My only friend who is earning more and having a better lifestyle is a self employed chippy - but he's worrying that he won't be able to take the physical side of the job when he's 40 and then whats he going to do etc.

Another old chum is in the Airforce on GR4s and hates the miniscule amount of flying he gets based in the frozen North where endless reams of people push paperwork and non-war tasks at him. He can't wait to get out and do what I am doing.

Now I moan and bitch about work - don't get me wrong. But if you really pin me down as to what I would rather do then I'm hard pushed to be realistic. I think I am happier and better paid and more long term secure in my job than any of my contemporaries and chums. Thats got to be worth something.

I had a cracking day to day, into a misty Venice, back out over the sunset Alps, overhead an early evening London then a quick nip up to Glasgow for a lovely visual approach and back. No hassles, great crew, lovely pax. Shame to take the money. It depends what floats your boat and where you take your pleasures really. If its status, social life, money and glamour then Airline Pilot no longer has much of that - look elsewhere.

If its just a bug you have and always have had then you'll love it. Simple as that.

A very wise very senior pilot told me something during my initial line training for my first airline. He said, and I quote,

"There is no such thing as The Perfect Job in aviation. Many pilots think that there is - and make themselves miserable because they don't have it.

Don't be one of them".


I think thats the best advice I ever received.

Cheers

WWW

In one sense, I am writing now to bring this thread back to the top, because I feel it should be there, even after this time. On the other hand, I am writing somewhat hindered due to a lump of humble pie in my hand.

I have not logged on for a while and have enjoyed reading the whole thread tonight. The only exception to that being my own reply. Thankfully I did apply an after thought to it. But I certainly see things from a different light tonight which will reflect in future posts. My reaction to the initial post was not based on rose tinted glasses as such, but more in relation to my knowing or feeling that I was not stereotypically ignorant to the industry. Just that for years, I had felt frustrated about being prevented from doing something that I loved....in my case for pleasure or "profit".

What I now realise is, how I may have come accross to those already there. I am sure that nobody felt that I was being derogatory, but I certainly would like to say that a fifty pence piece has dropped in relation to how some comments may be construed by those experienced in the industry, from us partially informed wannabes, as frustrating at best and certainly in light of some posts as potentially damaging for the status of professional pilots.

Although this thread appears thankfully to have calmed, I would like to echo the voices of appology by us wannabes and encourage all those with indepentant experience to continue to advise us without fear of a poorly thought out hammering.

Finally without sounding like I am too much up certain orifices (nothing in it for me....Virgin a distant dream) but I would like to say publically how much Scroggs's posts impress me. In my experience thay are always balanced, thought out, honest and concise. This thread particularly has proven that to me. I am sure he like others, wanted to burst at some comments, but he never did.

So here's to Scroggs....and indeed all at PPrune and those that post for our benefit.

Happy and healthy lives what ever we do.

Harves

Jam123
check your PM

I think there is more to be said on this subject.....

I read the post from the lawyer with interest, being a law student myself! I can sympathise completely with his plight - being stuck on The Strand from 8am to 9pm (with an hour commuting either end) is no life when you could be at 30,000 feet thrashing through the clouds.

Really, I'd like to direct the conversation onto a related topic that's been touched on here - whether people want to go into aviation as a career or want a career, with aviation on the side.

What would people prefer? Flying for a job, or having a job that funds flying?

I'd argue that the latter cuts out a lot of the negative points raised earlier, though of course you don't fly as often. That may in fact make it more interesting, though limit your flying options.

Any opinions?

1st Choice would be flying as a job.

2nd Choice would be flying as an instructor part-time, but ready to seize upon any opportunities.

3rd Choice would be having a job that funds flying.

My current approach is that I am going for all three! I am actively seeking opportunities or promotion within my current job and working towards my ATPL. If one wins over the other then so be it.

Grief...what a thread this is!!

Anyway I have only been flying commercially for 5 years....when I last got involved in a 'what'it all about thread' it was about 2.5 years ago and at that point in my career I loved every minute of it. 2.5 years later howsit going? Well I've changed companies and now work lo-cost flying the 737. And....I still love it!!

I enjoy the job immensely, the things that others see as stressful and a bad side to the job I think are challangeing and fun. Yep, some airports security staff are morons of the highest order, but I don't fly out of those airports. Where I fly from the banter between crew and security is fun, they know us, and we know them. Yep, the crew still pop in and visit...especially on an early morning Faro when all the punters are asleep. Lots of cups of tea...food is quite nice really. We still get time to visit the crew shops where they are provided and visits to duty free shops can also be made with a lot of crew co-operation. Salary is very good really, workload is not too hard for me. However, I suspect that is down solely to my base, as my compatriots at Luton seem to have it a lot worse.

Anyway, I love the views, the flights, the challenges, the banter, the ever changing SOP's....what I don't like.......when the beef stew has a bit of gristle in it!! That winds me up. ;) apart from that it's fine :)

DT

You could always do this.
 

Instead of spending all that cash and possibly no job at the end why not do this...

I am joking of course, but press here.

:E

Very interesting thread....and I am gonna throw in another perspective here -

I worked for the UK's biggest for six years - not as a pilot but as Cabin Crew. In this six years, my job was basically my whole life - especially on L/Haul as I am sure all the Longhaul guys on here will attest to. I saw and experienced at first hand the working conditions and daily issues between company and onboard crews. Yes, the conditions could have arguably been better, yes people moaned, and yes in all honesty the conditions have detiorated over the years.

However, I believe that any form of aviation work (notably on board) is a passion and that is what keeps us in it. As mentioned, the feeling you get when you are sitting up there at 30 something thousand looking out over some spectacular scene (be it the Swiss Alps or the Canadian Rockies) makes you glad that you are not in the 9-5 office based / train platform syndrome. And as you are on short finals over the M25 (or on the climb out) and you look down and see all those guys bumper to bumper, I think you realise you are in a pretty unique world. I know it sounds romanticised, but its the reality in my opinion.

Yes, it can be lonely (as Scroggs said) and relationships are very hard to hold down. Its something you learn to deal with I think. The loneliness can get to you at times, and that is hard. But ask the majority of airline crew if they would change their jobs and most would say definitely not.

I am temporarily out of the loop. And I miss it badly. I think its in the blood - a real passion. I have just completed my CPL/MEIR and am now looking at ways of getting back in as a pilot, since as cabin crew I was totally bitten by the desire to fly. So, all you wannabees, I say to you go for it, because (as noted previously on here) if its in your blood you are always going to regret not giving it a shot. It can be done! (and for my own sake, I have to believe that!!:D )

Something I wished I'd said earlier is troubling me - I mean in terms of getting it over.

Most here, certainly the majority, can drive. Remember when you could only change gear by actually looking down at it? Soon passes and becomes utterly automatic.

Well at some point in your flying career a huge proportion of your everyday routine flight has reached that category. Yup, I know we're always learning but by then such advances are now incremental.

There is a percentage of pilots who develop an itch, a very persistent and definite itch which I can only sum up as a realisation that flying isn't satifying some vital part of their brain, intellect or personality. How they deal with it is entirely different - some climb into management, some start a business, some take up a totally engrossing sport. Whichever way they go they strive to cut down the amount of flying they do so they can satisfy another part of their personal makeup. This desire can become very strong indeed and what I'm trying to describe is in no way a criticism. It seems that over the years most of my true friends in aviation actually need something other than just flying to feel complete.

I'm certain that a proportion of you are actually the same and in terms of an entire career would get more out of life by funding flying through a more stimulating and challenging use of your curiousity and intellect.

Regards
Rob Lloyd

I agree but weigh it up
 

I agree with what has been said :O :ok: But you gotta weigh it up, i mean the cost $$ involved etc. I got a question: I've decided to be a pilot but from the posts above it seems it's much more difficult & costly than what I figured. If u had £40,000 would u spend it on pilot training or follow the amusing suggestion of Master Yoda above??
:8

Work to Fly or Fly to work?
 

This has been a very interesting thread. As someone who came to flying relatively late in life I will never have the option of earning a living by professional flying. But, from where I am working to pay for flying is no bad option. In just over a year since qualifying I have an IMC and night qualification and have the chance to fly two aircraft in which I hold shares, one of which is a tail dragger. I shall shortly be starting on aerobatics in a Chippy! In the near future I will do the CPL, not because I want a career but for the challenge.

My point is that there is more than one way to get to fly. Professional flying is almost unique as a career in terms of the up front financial committment required and the currently very poor prospects of full time employment in the industry. I have never trained as a professional pilot but I know several who have, some of whom have sucessfully obtained jobs and who love every minute, one other at least who now after several years finds the work routine and a little unfulfilling. One of the best pilots and instructors I know (not just my inexperienced opinion) has been unable to find any commercial employment at all after several years. Of course it is the same with many jobs: hours of routine punctuated by prief moments of real excitment and and challenge.

This forum and comments elsewhere suggests that many wannabies will meet years of frustration in finding work and some will never obtain employment. It does no harm to consider whether money may not be better spent.

Just to throw another stone in the pit......Are there any more careers out there where someone with 10 years with a company, a captain ,is made redundant and the best job he can find has him at the bottom of the list again.......to a first officer??????.Lots of companies don’t take direct entry commands. :bored:

Says alot about the industry at present - the free market idea of supply and demand. At the moment and for some years past supply has greatly exceeded demand, making it an employers market, forcing down salaries and devaluing experience. Things are unlikely to change as long as there are so many chasing their dream!

Flying and driving
 

I wish I’d seen your post earlier Rob, because it really strikes a chord.

I remember my first driving lesson, at the tender age of 17, and having to look where I was going, steer, grapple with the gear lever and work 3 pedals with 2 feet. “Impossible” I thought. “I’ll never be able to do that.” 15 accident-free years and 1 IAM test later, I think I’ve pretty much got the hang of it.

That feeling came back to me the first ever time I turned finals, with a whole hour in my log book. In a healthy crosswind I pointed the nose at the runway, and was somewhat disconcerted to see it slowly drift away from us. :confused: Or the first time I had a go at actually landing the thing. “Impossible” I thought . . .

These days I liken my flying to the early days after I’d passed my driving test. Yes I’m legal and safe enough to go off on my own, but I lack experience and I’m acutely aware that there is no-one watching over me if I get it wrong. In short, I know just enough to be dangerous. That gets the adrenaline going, and the challenge of increasing my experience without killing myself helps to make flying a bit of an obsession.

I take your point that it won’t always be like that, that eventually it will become routine – automatic even - and your comparison with driving is a good one. However, although driving a car is totally routine these days, I still get a kick out of it. I huff and puff about traffic jams / cameras / other drivers / how the roads were much emptier when I were’t lad, but I still take great personal pride in getting from A to B smoothly and safely, in getting passengers to fall asleep when I’m driving, in getting 50,000 miles from a set of brake pads. Silly little things, but they matter to me. Christ, I even do a walkround to make sure the lights work every time it comes out of the garage – how sad is that?

The point is, the challenge of man over machine might have lost its novelty, but I still enjoy it and get just as much satisfaction from doing it well as I did on day one. I accept we’re all different, and I can only speak for myself, but I know I feel the same way about flying.

I’m genuinely grateful for all the advice and the caveats; it’s all valuable information. However, despite all the downsides, in my head and my heart I know where I want to be, and I know exactly why I want to be there. And it aint on a station platform.

My Dad has just decided to retire early. Why - had enough of the management. He can afford to and he has had his lot. "I want to sail my boat, go fishing, and walk the dog" he says. My brother despises the commute to work in London everyday. My mates from my time in the Navy say things continue to go down the pan with more cutbacks on the way. My eldest cousin works in the civil service sector - hates it but it pays his bills with enough to spare to fund his hobbies. I know not one person who is happy with their lot employment wise, and that includes my friends who fly for a number of airlines.

But I will make it to the flightdeck of a commercial aircraft one day. Whatever I have to do I will do it. Why?

1) I love flying. Flying a C152 from Southend to Le Touquet at the weekend is a long way from the world of the 737s. But flying is flying and its a bug and it has bit me hard.
2) Yes flying as a career will get monotonous at some stage. Most jobs do if done for any length of time. But I would rather have the highlight of my day being the view of the alps, or simply climbing out of the winters clound into clear skies, and not leaving the office at the end of the day to face another hellish commute home.
3) Finally I am a professional. For the very large part, that is the way of us pilots, be it PPL's of 747 pilots. Up there in the sky away from the beancounters and incompetents we are in our element, at home at ease and amongst professionals.

The last time BA got in contact with me it was to tell me my application to the Cadet Scheme had been terminated due to 9/11. Yesterday they e-mailed to say the DEP scheme was beginning once more. I am not going to walk into a job in BA tomorrow by any stretch of the imagination, but it the most positive news for us wannabees for a very long time.

Never let anyone or anything stand in the way of your dreams. For the greater the challenge and the more the hurdles the greater man you will be on realising the dream.

(edited because a post like this is hard to get just how you want it first time...)

Rob,

Point well made and well taken, but don’t you agree that it’d be the same whatever your job is. Robots can do the same thing over and over again, humans will inevitably get bored and need a release i.e. a hobby or sport or some other way of scratching the itch!

I’d still play golf or cricket if I was flying for a living, just as I do know. I just believe that the intervening time between that pint in the 19th and the next tee-off will be more enjoyable at the controls of an aircraft than what I’m doing now.

Cheers

Jools

P.S. What are you flying now?

Snigs,

Some of us are just plain flyin' fools. I fly something distressingly expensive with a head up display. Far more importantly I've got a share in an elderly but stunning two seater and I'm working hard at going solo in a glider soon. That's after having flown for 28 years now so I think the wannabees can work out which side of the fence I'm on.

However, along with our mods this reinforces the remit we all have to make sure you get genuine information and views from pros and that there is a genuine counterpoint to the industry.

That's not the airline industry by the way - the training industry. Connections between the two are very slim indeed - we're here to make sure none of you dare use the excuse that you were taken in by the brochures:E :E :E Remember that when you find you've written your first post on Rumours and News regarding the err, 'creative' flight time limitations you're expected to fly to or the total lack of a payrise for years - actually we ought to automate that with a script. Flashing caption and alarm sounding - keen wannabee finally realises 5th morning of the Alps after 3am alarm calls isn't quite what it's cracked up to be :ok: :ok:

We are your only reality check because it is not in anyone else's interests for you to know there is a downside to the job. You don't pay 30 grand or more to get bored in another career. The cost of an integrated course buys an awful lot of toys and holidays over a very long period while you do another job. As long as we've pointed that out clearly our job is done. As long as we consistently provide an experienced and cynical leavening of the marketeers' stock in trade this forum has served its purpose.

Regards to all
Rob

I think what he means is - we won't bull!!!!! you 'cos we've got nothing to sell! :cool:

Good point, Rob - 70K (you Oxford peeps) would buy you a healthy share in a very swish private aeroplane while you go and earn the squids in IT, or the City or wherever to pay for flying for FUN! Unfortunately (from the point of view of this scenario), my training was free - though it did involve compulsory attendance at a few wars. So I'm still working towards having the 70k in the first place.

Fortunately, the huge pay deal we recently received here at Pprune (500% increase for Mods) will help. ;)

Scroggs

Cooooor, a HUD, some guys have all the luck!! I bet that beats plodding the streets of Liverpool ;)

When I started PPRuNe-ing back in '98 it was this very advice from the people from the inside that I found most valuable, which is why I made the decisions that I did about my training and plans for my future. Because of this I have no regrets about my course of action (unfortunately some religious fanatics have made things a little more difficult though!). It's nice to see that the advice is still being given, unfortunately it's not heeded as well as it might be!

Scroggs, from where you are now in your Airbus/Boeing, if you didn't get your training paid for you, would you still be prepared to go back and splash out £50-£70k on licences for your current lifestyle??

Well - as said, the recent 500% PPRuNe Mod payrise has made a substantial difference to all our lifestyles here at PPRuNe HQ...

I spent the first half of my 20's in Uni/deskjob wanting to be a pilot. I spent the second half of my 20's being a pilot.

As I approach my 30th birthday I am able to look back and say quite honestly that the latter years were better than the former. Not that I didn't enjoy either.

Its just, if you KNOW you have to do something, then do it. Elsewise you'll become bitter about not trying and nagged by What Ifs. It will be a risk and a gamble - I was luck at 25 I had no responsibilites and therefore could treat it as a big adventure. I have the uptmost respect for the 30yr old with mortgage and 2 kids who decides to career change.

For the last 3 yearsish I have been saying don't bother trying - the industry has been brutal to Wannabes in this time. Now things ARE changing. Its time to enter the fray.

I love the job. I hate the fact I am working all this bank holiday weekend, that I have gone to bed after Eastenders all this week, that I have to worry about an annual line check v soon, that I can't go to a mates stage debut tomorrow night as I'm somewhere between here and Alicante.

But I wouldn't do anything else because its a real job - moving x100 people from A to B. Because there is very little management bull!!!!e, because there are no meetings no workshops and no politics. You only work with professionals, you get paid OK and every day there is something a little different and you learn something new. You are sometimes a little scared at work instead of always bored. You sometimes see something or do something fairly unusual.

It beats a lot of jobs hands down. It by no means beats them all. I - like most pilots - think a short lucrative career in the City followed by flying some light aircraft for fun would be preferable.

But hey - life is not a dress rehersal nor is it a competition.

Good luck, yes - on balance - it IS worth it (still).

Cheers

WWW

No, I wouldn't. I never had any intention of being an airline pilot; I wanted to be a military pilot - and, if I had my life again, that's where I'd go now. It was only later events in life that persuaded me, after 22 years in the RAF, that using the skills I'd gained (through wars and peace) to obtain a position in the airline world would be a sensible thing to do.

If I didn't have a family that will need financial support until I'm around 65, I would have stayed in the military - and continued to really enjoy my flying!

Scroggs

This undermines Pprune
 

I haven't read all eight pages of this thread, and you can call me naive, but for those of us who use Pprune openly and honestly to help our fellow aviators and wannabes, the potential that this is all a hoax to sway opinion for politics or entertainment really undermines the positives of Pprune. I don't know how you resolve it, but the feeling it leaves me with is that I want to get back to the good old days when I ignored the site completely and trusted no-one!

Think I might get back to the ATC boards where everything is perfect!

:*

Ye gods ..........here we are professional guys with quite a number of years of experience in this business and still people don't believe what we are telling them. Well of course that is your right I guess. Incidently hanging about in traffic jams is not confined just to desk bound workers. It takes me one and half hours motorway driving each day to get to the airport. Can't keep moving house each time I am allocated a new base. It appears the company I work for doesn't feel it necessary to even pay reasonable re-location costs. I won't mention what they offer here as you wouldn't believe it. But I see the rose-coloured spectacles are still very much in evidence. This isn't a wind-up guys this is the real world.:*

Straightandlevel80kts wrote:

What planet are you on? 'A hoax to sway opinion for politics or entertainment'? Do you really think that people like Rob, WWW and I (not to mention deathcruzer) would waste our time posting here to give you guys a heads up on the real for entertainment? Whose, exactly?

If you want sweetness and light, and nice stories to send you to sleep at night with your Air2000 teddy bear, stick to the FTO's or the airlines' websites. If you want the truth, you'll only get it here. Now go back and read all eight (six on my computer) pages of this thread, and don't make any further comment until you have.

Scroggs

you are right !
 

I think most of us (wannabes) are so sure of what they know about the aeronautical world that just don't even consider to be wrong .

I whant to really thank Rob, WWW, scroggs and deathcruzer for spending their time trying to open our eyes .

pls keep posting !!

Deathcruzer.. just coz it doesn't suit you , doesn't mean it doesn't suit anyone.

Thanks for your insight, but i don't think (most) people are ignoring the wise words that you and others are providing.


And if peeps don't believe you...?... then there is no help for them...

Wow, it took me a while to get through all the reactions in this thread and I have to say I didn't get out of it what I hoped I would. It felt like I was experiencing a tug-of-war between wannabees and those who have experience.

I am a wannabe, turning 39 this year and just finished my CPL and CMEIR in New Zealand. After having been in a succesfull career for a long time making good money I decided if I wanted to do this I need to do it now. It has been a dream for a long time and I have thought about it for a long time (too long). Many people have told me they respect me for doing it and that they would love to something similar but don't have the guts but I know they secretly thought I was absolutely crazy.
Well now my bank account looks a lot unhealthier than it did 18 months back and my partner has followed me to NZ and is not happy here so we are going to leave preferably to a place where there might be better prospects for a flying career. Her feelings about the future are pretty much the same as mine: very very very very unsure but we are both commited to make this (and our relationship) work. I guess I'll try and get a job in my old profession to get the financial situation back on track and in the meantime look around for a flying job to get those hours up to a level at which my chances of getting a reasonable job are realistic.

Yep, it's all true. It has been hard work, frustrating, demoralizing, finacially draining, relationship destructing, depressing and the future seems bleak.........but I am glad I did it!! I will never have to look back and wish I had and I will always be able to fly and I love to do that, even if it will only be as a hobby.

Nope, I DO NOT romanticise being a pilot. I think it will appeal to me (no I don't know for sure because I haven't had the chance to be one yet) simply because I love flying. Sure, I know every job has it's ups and downs and everything can become a rut if you let it. I think you have to look at the total package (money, future career, fringe benefits etc.) and try to work out if it is what you want and if it can keep you satisfied without blinding yourself by one or two aspects like money or status.

Now to get to the point I realy wanted to make.
I think I am a little dissapointed that after reading the whole tread I am not much wiser. I started reading this thread in the hope I would find some information on how to proceed. After all you are giving information about reasons for "doing or not doing". I have read reasons for "not doing" but not many reasons for "doing" and if you decide "to do" what is the best way to go about it.

It seems there is a lot of experience out there. I understand that the guys from the start were in a similar situation to me and I would realy love to learn from their experiences.
Maybe this is the wrong thread for my trail of thought, I'm not sure. And please don't shoot me for making mistakes in English because it's not my first language.

I think this site is a fantastic idea and I hope people will continue to share their insights in the industry and their experience.