Training in the USA - Visa and TSA Requirements
 

After September 11, 2001, U.S. Immigration has started to enforce the visa requirement for flight training.

There has been alot of discussion on whether to lie to Immigration when entering the U.S. and say you are on holiday or getting an M-1 visa and entering the U.S. properly.

I figured that alot of people in this forum have not seen the M-1 visa and would be interested in knowing what is in the form. The Visa form is a single page with 11 sections. They are as follows:

1)
Family name:
First name:
Country of birth:
Date of birth:
Country of citizenship:
Admission number (complete if known):

2)
School name:
School official (to be notified of student's arrival in the U.S.):
School address:
School Code (include 3-digit suffix, if any) and approval date:

3) This certificate is issued to the student named above for:
(check and fill out as appropriate)

a. Initial attendance at this school.
b. Continued attendance at this school.
c. School transfer.
Transferred from:
d. Use by dependents of entering the U.S.
e. Other:

4) Level of education the student is pursuing or will pursue in the U.S.: (check only one)

a. High school
b. Other vocational school

5) The student named above has been accepted for a full course of study at this school majoring in:
The student is expected to report to the school not later than (date) and complete studies not later than (date) the normal length of study is

6)(check if required)

English proficiency is required:
The student has the required English proficiency.
The student is not yet proficient, English instructons will be given at the school.
Enghish proficience is not required because:

7) This school estimates the student's average costs for an academic term of (up to 12)months to be:

a. Tuition and fees $
b. Living expenses $
c. Expenses of dependents $
d. Other (specify) $
Total $

8) This school has information showing the following as the student's means of support, estimated for an academic term of months (Use the same number of months given in itme 7)

a. Students personal funds $
b. Funds from the school
(specify type) $
c. Funds from another source
(specify type and source)$
Total $


9 Remarks:


10

Signature of designated school offical:
Name of designated school official and title:
Date and place issued:

11

Signature of student:
Name of student:
Date:
Signature of parent or guardian (if student is under 18):
Name of parent or guardian:
Date:
Address of parent or guardian:

That is the entire form which is sent to the student with this information filled. The student takes it to the U.S. Embassy along with the form OF-156 (which is about to be replaced with the for DS-156). That is it for the M-1 visa.

Hope this clears up the M-1 visa.

Happy to Help,


Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

Richard,

We genuinely do appreciate the unemotional, factual and very useful posts you write for wannabees but the sig line is getting a little bit cheeky - company slogan and all.

Rob Lloyd

I was hoping to attain a flight training visa without having a flight school before I go to Florida.
Does anyone know if this is possible because I would prefer to find a school when I get over there.

EI-CD,

The whole point of the M-1 Visa is for you to go to the school that is sponsoring you for the Visa.

You could enter the U.S.A. on a B Visitors Visa and then when you find the school you want, have them change your Immigration Status to an M-1 Visa. During the time it will take to change you from a B to an M-1 you will NOT be allowed to train in any way.

There are more details in this thread:

Visa Requirements for Flying and Training in the U.S.A.

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

What about the J1 Visa ?

Thanks + Merry Xmas

:D :D :D

Looks like the visa rules have changed again. The US Embassy in London is now requiring all those who want a non-immigrant visa (ie M1 etc) to attend the embassy for an interview.

But its all right, they say it will only take 4 hours out of your day - once you get there that is. After all, us Brits - who are standing shoulder to shoulder with our US allies in the fight against terrorism - have nothing better to do with our time than spend a morning explaining our last 10 years of holiday trips to some consulate type who thinks Edinburgh is in England.

It is not enough, it seems, to have to fill in three forms, including personal details of all your relatives, make a trip to a particular bank branch, give up your passport for 2 weeks, get a letter from your employer saying why it is they think you would prefer to stay in the UK and not emigrate to the US once you've finished and get tracked during your visit on the ISEAS student tracking system. And then there is the bit about being fingerprinted when you arrive.

Welcome to the land of the free...

Still, I suppose I should be grateful...at least I'm not Arab.

And no, if you are a US citizen coming to the UK to study, you don't need to attend an interview, you don't even need a visa.

For details - http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web...iv/january.htm

Sensible, check out the date of my post. Sorted out aeons ago and we have a very good working relationship with Richard.

Regards
Rob

Well it looks like it is South Africa for me then...I am just not prepared to undergo this treatment.Shame really as I love the States and flying there but I have my limits and this is beyond them.I feel sorry for the schools out there.They are the ones who are going to suffer especially now as SA is becoming a viable althernative.
Beet

Beethoven
 

Trouble with your idea Beet is the Crime.

I know someone who went over there for the month but returned after two weeks....couldn't deal with the high level of crime and living like a prisoner....took all the enjoyment out of it. Everything had a wire fence around it and most were electric.

Guess is depends where in the Country you go as there are some lovely areas but most would want to fill out the paperwork and go to a known quantity. The stories I have heard are crazy. One said that he had to pay a kid to look out for his car when he went shopping because if he refused payment his car would not be safe!

Just to let you all know, about 10 years ago the process at the US Embassy was quite similar and they had slackened off. It is also interesting to know that it only seems to be US Embassy in the UK who has these new changes. I feel that the government believe that as we are in cohoots with the US that we should be careful from all around.

I have a question....I posess a B1/B2 Visa and an Aircrew C1/D Visa as a professional airline pilot with a UK Carrier. I also hold FAA Cpl/IR and CFI/MEI Licences in addition to my CAA Atpl.
In a year or so I would like to renew my CFI ticket.
Will I have to undergo this 3rd degree grilling in order to do so?
Secondly, I am the co owner of a US registered twin which is based on the West Coast USA with my partner being a US Citizen.
Am I now restricted from flying my own bird when on holiday?

I've got the same starry constellation of visas Aztruck and I'm going through the whole shebang to get in for recurrent...........

Rob

aztruck,
Interesting question...Few observations that may help you. INS doesnt care how many visas you have in your passport it only cares for which visa you enter the US with. This then better correspond to what you are actually doing...For example...if you enter with your Airline Crew C1/D visa and you are on vacation they that could cause a problem because you are not actually doing what the visa is intendet for.

You can sum up visa requirements with what you intend to do. For example if you are going to school then you need a student visa. If you happen to go on vacation while you are at school your main intend is still to be a student even though you are currently on vacation...have I confused you enough :confused:

If you are flying your own airplane and not actually enrolling in a school then a Tourist visa should suffice..but this is where it gets tricky...if you enroll in a school (for a CFI renewal) and fly with an instructor it may not fall under "vacation" and a Tourist Visa would NOT be enough...bottom line a lot is up for interpretation and believe it or not the US embassy employees which actually work for the state department don't always agree with INS which is Dept. of Justice. So I would advise you if you are going to renew your CFI to add another visa to your collection and get a M-1 Student Visa and use that when you enter...of course talk to the officer when you arrive and simply ask him. I noticed that they are getting much friendlier and helpful and if you have a good attitude about it they will too...

Take care!

Is S.A. survivable?
 

Beethoven,

I'm off to a place around 300miles from J'bourg at the beginning of Jan to do some flying.

If I get back alive I'll report how good or bad it is in S.A.

Aztruck,

The simplest thing for you to do is do your renewal online. There are plenty of refresher courses available. I know jepessen and asa, king have them. I know they are not expensive but don't know what they entail.

As for flying your aircraft if you are not doing any training in it towards a rating you CAN fly it on your tourist visa. This is to the best of my knowledge, dealing with a lot of international students at the flight school I work at in the US.

What hapens if my company wants to send me to the US for training?

What visa would I enter on then?

Many thanks,Sensible...!
That would be really helpful.Stay safe ok?
Best Wishes,
Beet

oh yes, u can be train during the change of an B1/2 visa to an M1 visa.U can even be trained on your B1/2 visa.
here my secret (do not tell to a US officer, they will place u on the terrorist list).enter in the USA with a B1 or b2 visa.
when in the USA, go in a fixed based operator (FBO), take some business card you will find around.Call several CFI, ask them if they have a plane to rent and the next day u will fly in the wonderful US sky.

the pilot in command has final authority (PArt 61,????), INS has no authority on a pilot in command.
it's the law!:D

superpilot68
 

You know it is people like you, dodging the rules, that make it harder for everyone else!

Is that what you will be like in an aircraft?

CFI Renewals
 

Aztruck.

Visit www.Gleim.com for details of their online refresher seminar.

If you are awarded a M-1 visa, how long is the maximum time it can last?

EI-CD,
It is valid for up to 50% over the actual course length but no more then 12 months. In other words if a course if 6 months you will most likely get a 9 month visa. I would have to add that many schools do not know about the exact rules regarding this so many schools issue 12 month I-20's. Sometimes the US embassy doesnt question it either but I do know in some cases students were approved less time in their passport.

The M-1 visa can be extended only ONE TIME (for maximum 12 months) so if you do not finish after the extension you would be required to leave the country. Then you could conceivably apply for another I-20/M-1 visa but be prepared to do some very good explaining why they should give you another visa

Visas that allow you to work in the US
 

All of you wize guys and girls out there!!

Does anybody know about a visa that allows you to work as a flight instructur or in banner towing in the US for shorter periods??

Embassy interview
 

It's not that bad really, they just want to confirm who you are and where you're going, I heard it only takes 20 min.
What's the added security value of a visa if you could get it over the mail?
Lot of people seem to be upset about being treated the same as every other nationality...bit of a laugh really..
Didn't Reid (the shoebomber) live in the UK?
Wat about that imam in a mosque in London...you now the guy with no hands who was persecuted in Egypt for being a little too radical and getting asylum in the UK?:D

The ridiculous US visa system has just ruined my planned trip to the states to do my PPL. Firstly their appointment booking system is a premium rate number which costs £1.30 a minute, they deliberatly repeat the recorded messages to waste your time and cost you more and then you get told that you have to wait over a month for an appointment. The woman on the other end clearly didn't give a toss that this would destroy my one and only chance to do my PPL in the next few years and wouldn't give me any advice whatsoever. They also want to take away my passport for a week which would prevent me doing my job (cabin crew).

No wonder everyone hates the americans when they treat even their "closest allies" like criminals. By the way, I am British, I have no links whatsoever with Muslim extremists, Islam or anything else, I have a nice home, decent enough job and family. Anyone with half an eye can see I will not want to live in the USA or blow it up.

My M1 is valid for five years

I have just completed the J-1 Visa merry-go-round Its complicated, requires a certain amony of time and dedication, yes you may have to plan on not having your passport HHmmmm a bit like trying for any flying licence?

How many people get aggravated here in the UK about the lack of control of immigrants into the country? It seems to me that if you want the visa then be prepared to do the things that the people (who's country you wish to enter) are asking.

I have J-1 Visa for myself, (2 hours wait in the Embassy) and a J-2 for my wife. The system is not perfect by any means, but at the end of the day I am now able to stay in the US for 2 years and complete my training. Isn't that worth a little bit of effort?

Two of the most known muslim terrorists in The Netherlands who worked together with Mohammed B., the murderer of Theo van Gogh, are Americans; Jason Walters and Jermaine Walters.

I love most americans, except for a few.

S.

M1 , tough question for NAC
 

Naples Air Center, Inc

Are you aware there are flightschools, who participate in the TSA very tough screening (fingerprints etc.) on www.flightschoolcandidates.gov , and for specific courses ( license upgrade etc ), that don't issue I-20 forms ?

So a B visa on the Visa Waiver Prorgam might be good enough for selected courses and flightschools ?

S.


p.s.

- immigration officers / VISA are there to assess people for the risk of staying in a country without the means to earn money

- TSA is there to asses the security risk of people.


Like coffee and tea, not different cups of tea.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as a finishing touch, God created the Dutch

Sensible, I think you'll be fine in SA .. I did hr building there and it was great laugh .. cheap, food better, people nicer.

Plus, I did PPL in US and hr built there too, was OK when I was there .. however, since had a visit from Special Branch ala FBI.

About time I think for bods to tell the yanks where to stick their homeland security, wash their hands of them .. and get out flying in better and friendlier places

ta ra

The M1 visa debate continues.......
 

It is true that the TSA requirement does not require you to be on a Visa. In fact, the Deputy Sherriff that comes to do the students fingerprints at NAC does not even want to see an original passport anymore........but what he does need to send to the TSA with the fingerprints to get approval for training is:

1. Copy of Passport
2. Copy of I20 visa form
3. Copy of student visa in the passport.

ChewyTheWookie

Sorry to hear about your troubles.......I can advise that we have many cabin crew for training and they use a visa processing service which turns around the visas in a couple of days when they are not flying. Please email and I will put you in touch with one of the students that did this.

As for this.....the process is getting just as bad going into the UK, but saying that everyone hates americans .....that's just as bad as the few Americans generalizing about the French just because the President over there does not agree with the War.... I am British and I live in the US for one reason only......I run a flight school and I believe that the best place for my Flight school is in Florida.

Getting back to flying......yes there are some things that you need to do but for most is put them out for a bit of form filling and going up to the Embassy. We have pretty much roughened the edges on the system and students are moving through quite smoothly. Most students see putting up with this is still worth the brilliant flying that you will get in the US.

On a final note, I would suggest that you contact your school that you are going to and see if they can assist you....most will have a contact at the US Embassy that you can call.

Good luck to you

@ Ninety-Nines

Still mixed up;

On B visa you are approved to study, if a study is less than 18 hours a week.

1. no study, No I-20, no M1
2. A participant on the WVP gets a B for 90 days

A multi add-on will take about 10 hours. This will need TSA approval.

:confused:

S.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as a finishing touch, God created the Dutch

M-2 Visa
 

Hi,
Supposing i am going for the flight training with my spouse, how do i get the M-2 visa.Is the school required to also send an I-20 form for my spouse?(she s not going for training)

SR20flyDoc
 

The local homeland security office is clear in as much that any student completing training towards a licence certificate or rating requires an M1 visa. ie if you have a FAA PPL and want to get a JAA PPL, then this is not considered training as you are licenced and rated in the aircraft that you are flying. If however you do not have any licence you would need a visa. In another manner, if you hold an SEP PPL and want to add a MEP, you would need a visa. It has been rumoured that the FAA Examiners will soon need to take copied of the visas as well as their ID's when giving check rides.

A visa waiver form is not and does not give you a B visa; you have to apply for a B visa. A visa waiver (green form) is a programme offered through the Airlines to avoid some approved countries the requirement to attain a visa to visit those Countries.......not train, study or work.

Generally there are two B visa, B1 and B2. One is primarily for people who own a house etc and want to be in the US for up to 6 months at a time. The other is attained when you are visiting the US on business and allows you to work on behalf of the Company that sent you to the US.

The process for the B visa is very similar to that of the M visa but they are harder to come by these days as people were abusing the system.......shock horror:eek:

Engine Noise

It is really simple to get a M2 visa for your wife/significant other......we just add her details onto the form and you take it along with yours to the US Embassy appointment.

They already do in Orlando district.

Received an e-mail from a guy recently who said that his wife was told to make a seperate appointment at Grosvenor Square - and she had to make it herself, therefore a different day, different appointment. Stupid bloody system.

Hi
Just a correction on obtaining an M2 visa for spouses and family. Individual I-20s need to be issued for each and every person.
It is relatively simple to do. When the schools administrator is issuing the main I-20, they just need to continue into the dependents section to issue separate dependent I-20s. You will need to give the full names as in the passports and dates of birth.
Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise, we believed a person we spoke to over the phone at the embassy and my initial application was rejected.
All the forms from the embassy also need to be filled in for all the applicants. BTW, you should still only need to pay one fee to SEVIS for your I-20 issue. Make sure you take the receipt for payment with you to the embassy.
It all goes really smoothly as long as you have every piece of paper you can possibly be asked for. I have been here with my husband and children for 18 months and we love it.

Outsdie a flight school
 

How do you get a visa when the instruction (FAA instrument rating) is given unpaid by an indivdual rather than a flight school ?

According to the US embassy I need an M1 visa (rather than my Business visa) as you state and to get that need a flight school and forms I-20 or DS-5019 neither of which seem to be available via the embassy website.

Thanks
:confused:

M1
 

My M1 visa lasts 12 months with 6 months extendable..If I could go back in time I would never have done the full course in Florida, just a PPL and 100 hours buiding...Everyone I know from our school has had a nightmare adjusting to UK airspace, comms, and especially the weather....whats pitot heat for?? Icing whats that all about???

One guy from our school spent 15 thousand pounds to convert his FAA IR to a JAA IR....

The I-20 is issued by the Flight School which you wish to attend. Be aware the majority of schools charge for this hidden away in some sort of enrollment fee...:bored:

They don't in the LA area. I know of a school which charges $ 1000 for the I-20, and do a multi in 30 hours. :confused:

ATP does it in 10-15 hours and 4 to 5 days.

S.

Does it mean a I-20 form must be obtained before applying the M-1 visa? Can all flight school provide the I-20 or only specified flight schools could provide that form?

Thanks very much!