I would like to transfer to another school
 

:) :) :) :) I have M1 visa for flight training.

If I contact my first school while I am still in my country ,and telling them that I would like to transfer to another school . Can the school cancel my Visa:( . is it possible.
or they Just say its ok and Transfer me to the new school.

my first school is in WA. & the new school in FL. it Is very far between WA & FL.that way I don't want to go to the first school then to the new.:{ (if I have opitns)
can I Just contact them by phone!

:) thank you for your help.:)

Type Rating Visas
 

Saw this in depth thread and thought Id throw in my 10 cents.

I recently travelled to Denver, CO for a type rating. Of course, thought I needed a visa. I am a British Citizen. Got in touch with the US consulate in Dubai who explained to me that my course was VOCATIONAL and could not issue me with a visa, even if I wanted one. The consulate could only issue a visa if my course was a prolonged course of study, for example if I were to be doing initial flight training. The fact that I was just going accross for a couple of weeks to add a rating meant the need for a visa was waved.

Not being convinced I contacted the TSA, from whom I needed to get approval from anyway in order to train. They also explained that my course was vocational and that I could enter on the visa wavier program. At the same time I started my approval with the TSA for my course.

STILL not convinced, I contacted the Department of Homeland Security who also explained that my course was vocational and as a British Citizen I did not need a visa and could enter on the wavier program.

STILL not convinced I finally got in touch with the Customs and Border Patrol. I took the womans name who I spoke to and she quoted me the rules and regs out of her immigration book and the reference numbers I could quote to the immigration officer at JFK when I arrived in case I had any problem.

On departing the UAE I made sure I brought all correspondance from the departments I spoke to. I also had my TSA approval application which I could not complete until getting my fingerprints taken at Denver International Airport. I booked the appointment for the fingerprints before leaving the UAE. On arrival at JFK, the immigration officer asked me what Im doing. I said aircraft type training in Denver...and before I got a chance to finish I was admitted to the US for 3 months.

Finally, 3 days later after getting the fingerprints done I received my authorisation to train from the TSA and that was it.

I would just suggest to anybody unsure about their visa requirements to personally check with every authority possible, check, double check and tripple check. Type rating visas are a bit of a grey area in the US as nobody knows what type of course its classed as. When researching into my course, I got in touch with Flight Safety in LGA who told me that I would have to go accross on an aircrew visa. If I wasnt a member of an airline, I could not do a type rating in the US. However I found that this was untrue.

Don't know if this will help anyone but there u go

Cheers DB :ok:

Desert Budgie,
Thanks for this very useful piece of information. :ok:
Was yours a self sponsored type rating or were you sent by your airline?
The two cases have different requirements, I believe.
Thanks

I did my type rating self sponsored at Flight Training International in Denver, CO. They also told me that as being a member of a wavier country I did not need a visa, however they kept me up to date as the rules are constantly changing.

Like I said in my previous post, Flight Safety told me flat out that if I was not going accross on an aircrew visa I could not train at their facility in the US. However, if I was to do the same course in Toronto I could. The Canadian requirements are slightly different, and said that I could hop on a plane yesterday and to my type with no probs at all.

All in all the way I did it worked for me, superb staff, good sim and saved 8000us rather than bothering with flight safety. A mate of mine also on a British passport did a CE-550 type in Orlando Simcom, and as far as I am aware, he attended his course along the same lines as myself. I think the biggest thing the US is bothered about is the TSA clearance. At the end of the day they are the absolute authority to whether or not you can train, and if they clear you its all good. If an FTO cannot offer you a visa like in my circumstances, bring all the goods with you like you would when showing up for a visa interview. Ie bank statements, TSA approval, accomodation, enrollment letter etc..etc so that if you get questionned on arrival, you have the evidence to back you up that you are a legit student.

Again, this info is just from personal experience, so check it all out yourself before making any decisions.

Cheers

DB :ok:

Hi DB,

Tried to reach the TSA Flight Student Program Help Desk today but they seemed too busy and I got an answering machine.

Their site sates:

[08/25/2005] Taking flight training without an appropriate visa could be a violation of your immigration status and could result in your arrest and removal from the United States; therefore, it is important that you have a visa that permits you to take flight training in the United States. If you do not possess the correct visa, or if you have questions pertaining to your visa status or the appropriate visas for flight training, please contact your local Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services at 1-800-375-5283 or at, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services or the State Department Consular Affairs Office for assistance. The AFSP will deny flight training requests from candidates who are present in the United States illegally or who do not have an appropriate visa for flight training.

You say in your previous message that you contacted several agencies. Do those phone calls include one to the guys you had to deal with when you went through the port of entry ? I mean, are they the Border Patrol or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service ? Are they the same thing ? (Please pretend I asked this the right way :O)

Thanks

Yes! Customs and border patrol are the immigration officers at the desks when you enter the US. Basically the flight school told me I didnt need a visa and told me to check with my US embassy, who told me I didnt and told me to contact the TSA, who told me I didnt and gave me the number for the Department of Homeland Security (or State), who told me I didnt and gave me the number of the Customs and Border Patrol who also told me I didnt need a visa.

I worked in entry clearance at the British Embassy in Dubai last year. One of the things I learned there is that under certain categories of study or travel, a visa is not required. We would get these folk pleading with us to give them a visa 'just in case' and we couldnt. We were not refusing these folk entry to the UK, the fact was they did not require a visa to go to the UK, and could just travel on their passport alone. Even if they were going to study. A vocational course for example we could not issue a student visa because there was no requirement for one. However, we would advise these students to travel with 6 months bank statements, invitation letter, accomodation confirmation, return ticket...etc to show the immigration officer in the UK on arrival. This was the same deal as with me going to the US for my course.

DB :ok:

I have been denied by the TSA.
I have applied with Panam for the randhem training on the A320.(self sponsored).

Panam told me to come under a tourist visa,
not true, the TSA sent me an email requesting for an M1 visa. And this visa, I can not get it.:{
Since the begining, I got only not coherent stories from the TSA, DHS,and the school.



@desert budgie

who told you you do not need to be a crewmember for a type rating?.any text?

People who have been denied training by the TSA, can send me info by PM,
please if you wish,send me phone number of agents you have contacted, TSA/DHS answers, your situation (pending, denied,...)
all info I can get, will be used against the TSA and the DHS for clarification.


(you can keep your anonymat.)

D

check ur pms, found that law quoted to me from the cbp. keep us posted with what u hear. would be good news for everyone if it could get cleared up

db :ok:

DB,

thank you.
your number provided has been sent to the USA.
I think I will reapply with the TSA, and ask them why I have been denied, once I have more info.
I keep you in touch !

kala 320,
please,check you PM, or explain us your story.I bet you have applied for the A320 or the 737 training . and they told you to come with a b2 visa or visa waiver, and bingo, at the custom, they told you to go home after 5 hours ,giving phone calls, etc... and no one has really understand why!!! ...and now you are stuck at home, and you ask yourself: why????

Please keep me informed on your conclusions via PM or whatever means. (now I am really :confused:)

Thanks

Urgent
 

HELLO ,

I have M-1 Visa it issued in 16th of May 2006 & I did not travel to the United States Because of my father death ,My father died on the 14th of may ,so I delaid my flight till now .

My Question is onc I get to the USA Airport ,the customs will turn me back !! to my country?!? Because I was to late .

my Visa Will Expire in 16th of june 2007.

Can any one answer my Question.:confused:

**my flight will be within two Days.

visa waiver scheme
 

Hi,
I am off to do a type rating in good ol' USA for 22 days ,can I enter the haven of democracy on the Visa Waiver scheme (you can for recurrent training) or do i need a M1 visa?Appreciate any info/links etc.Thanks

You are adding a rating so as far as I know you have to get an M1.

Welcome to the world of long queues and $100 fees for applying to make an application for a visa that you will have to pay another $100 for.

Then you will have to pay to register with the TSA, and that costs money too. And then you have to pay (at least, I did) a $30 fee to have your fingerprints taken at a police station close to the school you are training at.

Then there's the "special" sized photos that you have to pay for as "normal" passport photos are the wrong size. Then there's all the money you will fork out going to the embassy - oh and yes of course you have to purchase a DHL or Fedex envelope that they use to post the visa back to you if you get it and.........sigh!

I hope for your sake that it's the waiver but as I said at the start, you are adding a rating and that constitutes training and not just hour building on an existing rating.

Farrell

I disagree... I went to the US last June for an initial typerating. Went on a visa waiver, but still had to do the TSA stuff

I was in the USA last month and enquired about a PPL course for my son. The training school were adamant that for any course you MUST get a visa.

Best to contact the TSA by telephone.

None of us really know what the deal is!! :rolleyes:

I have been all through this state side, i had an J1 visa, right to work. But i couldnt train, i wasn't eligable for the waiver either.

If you are "Training" then you need an M1 if you are not as US Joint or sole citizen. The exceptions to this are if you are on holiday and you decide to take some flying lessons, then a "resonable" ammount would be acceptable, they never stipulated how many hours are resonable, i would say five or six. You dont need an M1 for hour building, you dont need an M1 for continued studdies either, i think this refers to if you have started a course and never finished it off in the one trip/visit. Each rating is classed as a seperate course, so how i under-stand it from how they explained it state-side if you are been taught then an M1 visa is required, if you are hour building or had a "one off" lesson then this would be waiver or tourist type visa.

Correct. There is some good information on this thread, but it is highly date-sensitive. Not only that, but you are not in a position to judge what is correct and what is not.

The ONLY definitive source of information is the TSA, if necessary via the US Embassy in your domicile country. That doesn't guarantee correct info, but you stand a chance of a fair hearing if you are given false (and attributable) information by US authorities. The TSA will laugh in your face if you turn up at the US Immigration Post saying, "My mate on Pprune said it would be OK".

You stand to lose a lot of money invested in courses if you are turned away on entry. Make sure your information is correct. I repeat, there is only one source you can trust and can quote in case of dispute.

Scroggs

There seems to be a lot of confusion over travelling to the US with regard to an SSTR
A group of us have just finished a JAA turboprop type rating with FlightSafety in the US.
We had all the issues and concerns that have been voiced here, and we went round in circles for ages trying to get a visa. FlightSafety couldnt issue an M1 as they didnt have an approved JAA course (we were renting the simulator and brought our JAA instructors/examiners with us).
Our group, although asked questions at the airport both my Customs/INS and TSA did all get admitted, and all of us were on visa waivers.
The main issue is the TSA clearance, if you dont have this you simply wont be able to get in the sim.
As always - get your own situation clarified before travelling.

M1 VISA Question
 

will it be possible for someone on the M1 visa to travel out of the USA without completing his course for a short break? Or do i have to reapply for another visa when returning after the break?
thx

LostAndFound

If you have the visa issued in your passport , it will say multiple or single entries, if multiple then yes , if it says single than no.
Best would be to contact the US embassy in your country, and ask them , each aplication is done on merit.

You may have a visa with " multiple entries", however you need a valid I-20 to go with that.
Meaning that if you leave before you are finished, the school administrator either needs to sign your I-20 or issue you a new one.
Some schools may charge you a small fee for the paper work.

the TSA and the DHS dont know their own rules...
call 3 times, and you will get 3 times different answers.

Some people working at the DHS have no clue about visa.
One asked me what was a tourist visa!!!and I started to explain him HIS job.

anyway, I have given up my training in the USA, because noone of these US offices want fix THEIR mess with SSTR.

for the same course they can ask you to get a B2 visa, an M1 visa, a J1 visa, no visa and come illegaly,...

for my part, they asked me to come with a M1 visa, but the SSTR couldnt issue M1 as they are not approved for M1.
USA is not a reliable country for aviation training since 9/11.

On my last visit out to the states (for flying purposes), I went to my flight school (which I had been to before on an M-1 Visa) to build hours and keep my licenses current. I went without a visa and travelled on the Visa Waiver programme. Upon arriving (I went via IAD so went through immigration there) I went through immigration where I was asked what I was doing in the USA. I simply said I was there to build flight hours and keep my licenses valid. I already have my licenses so I am not there to be taught / instructed on flight. The officer understood what I was saying and I was allowed entry into the USA.

I think there is a very thin line on whether a visa is needed or not. The best thing to do is check with as many people as you can, and knowing the visa system I’m sure everyone will give you different answers.

Check with the flight school, the US Embassy, TSA, the FAA maybe even, but do check and be 100% sure.

This stuff is not difficult.

any training lading to the issue of a licence or rating ,US or non US requires a M1 visa.

To get this you need to enroll in a flight school approved by the Immigration people who will issue you with an I-20.

This I-20 the allows you to register with SEVIS who monitor the student status.

Next you apply to the relevant US embassy for an appointment to get the visa. They will ask whether the I-20 has been issued before the will fix an appointment. More forms to fill I am afraid.

Once the visa is issues then there is the need to register with the TSA who will cross check with the flight school that you are a student of theirs and record your visa number.

Upon arrival at the school they will arrange for a photo to be taken along with your fingerprints and as long as your photo matches the photo in your passport, the photo taken on entry to the US and the visa phto you are good to go.

It seems a bit of a hassle but as far as I am concerned its their country and if you want to go there then you play their game.

I am sure there is plenty of scope for people trying to get round the rules but if you get caught then you could be thrown out of the country and not be allowed back ever.

If there is no training involved as any instructor time is currency related then no visa is needed. The visa waiver programme is fine.

Has the rule changed now? i thought one could apply for the TSA befoore the visa?

I've always applied to TSA first and have done this time (September application), you don't need a visa for CPL either, just ME and IR

I thought any training resulting in a licence, the pilot has to have a visa (PPL, IR, CPL, ME, FI, ATP). Not for time building !!!

"Officials" like things in writing...If you are going to a flight school for time building, I suggest that you obtain a letter from the Chief Pilot explaining the purpose of your trip, with a friendly reminder for the TSA agent (who sometimes forget their own rules :ugh:) that this is not a training therefor no visa is needed.

Happy Flying,
Chti17

Thought I'd try and clear a few things up with the relevant links; (Additionally, I would like to mention that the process in reality is NOT complicated or hard, it's just a matter of the school you choosing guiding you through the process, which they will have done many many times before.)

To complete flight TRAINING in the US you will probably require a VISA - cost of Visa dependant on Embassy circa £64 in the UK?
This is normally completed on a M1 Visa. You will need to apply to your school get an I20 and then book an appointment at your relevant embassy. Wait times and other relevant information for your Embassy can be found on Department of State website
Student Visas - look under M1 for vocational study - as this covers flight training and Dept of State M1 Info
J1 - Exhange Visa - used for Instructors and Dept of State J1 Info
If you are going to leave the US during your training;
M1 - you will need you I20 signed by the representive at your school for every trip you depart the country on; this allows re-entry subject to the standard entry to the US rules.
J1 - you will need your DS2019 signed by the representive at your school stating you are in good standing.

A SEVIS fee is required when have an initial M1 issued or change status or have an initial J1.
See http://www.fmjfee.com for more info. Normally $100

Regarding TSA for GA training;
TSA is required if you are completing licences or ratings as below:

• An INITIAL Licence to fly in the US Ie Private SE(P) (ASEL as known in the US) including Foreign Licence Verification process.
• Initial Multi Engine (IE for Private not needed for Commercial)
• Instrument Rating

The TSA online application is at : https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/ with the main TSA website at http://www.tsa.gov/. $100 plus $10 for fingerprinting (Can be completed at any US Police station rather than elsewhere which will be more expensive)
Also the Alien Flight School Program pages. Read the FAQ there and then contact your school if your in doubt

If you are doing any FAA Ratings or taking the FAA Commercial (and your licence is based on a foreign PPL) you must have a letter of verification see: (UK CAA Links included as it's governing authority for the majority of the readership)
FAA Form
CAA Guide to Licence Verification Process
CAA Form SRG1160
No CAA form is ever complete without the Payment Method Form
You may complete hour building without foreign licence verification on a US student pilot certificate, however you will be heavily restricted require multiple endorsements, and you woul dneed to check your individual school's policy.

If you get stuck on the process read the FAQs on the websites and then contact your school first they will know and should understand the process. You may see these as additional costs, but remember you will probably get continutity of training due to better weather etc. I suggest you include these costs in any plans you make. Why not make an excel spreadsheet and compare your options? (It will still probably be cheaper than flying in the UK LOL!)

If anyone spots any changes I'll happily amend the thread as necessary rather than letting this thread expand with speculation - this should help alleviate some people's queries.

good luck to understand the application process...

since I start to apply, they didn't stop to ask for my credit card number.

the TSA:130$
finger print:160$
travel to fingerprint center: 500$

(then by chance my application has been denied at this application stage , the I-20 was not possible for my school as they are a SSTR),
if green light from the TSA you can continue to pay :

Sevis for M1 visa:100$
Visa application with Us embassy 90$
visit to US embassy: 200$
application fee 90$
CAA form: 40 pounds????
trip to the USA: 1000$

(not sure of the costs)

in one year, they will ad some extra fees to pay for their new US-Berlin wall, because WE are going to pay for that too; it 's not going to cost 2 billion but 10-15 billion $ (they love to lie in Washington, time by 5 at least everything they say).

Do yourself a favor:do your training in Canada(first choice), Australia(second best choice), or Europe (last choice).

I'm still not too sure why you keep blaming the US government for your losses when seems to me that the school are at fault.

VISA for US Training
 

Does anyone know whether the VISA process for flight training in the US is simplified at all if the applicant has a UK MOD security Clearance?

Depends what training you want to do, and for how long! I have just gone through the process and with a British passport, did not need a visa to do a type rating, I was there for 21 days.

I have just done a > 12500 TR in the US. I am on a British Passport and did not require ANY visa. I got all my TSA stuff squared away, all the correspondence in a file and off I went. At immigration I told the official what I was doing, showed him the TSA approval and that was that. VIVA VISA WAIVER :D

Unless your flight training is for military purposes and to be carried out under NATO orders, I think it is highly unlikely you will be exempt the normal visa procedures.

Scroggs

Type rating >12500lbs
 

Whether or not a visa is required for a type rating seems to be an area where there is difficulty in getting a standard answer.

I'm hoping to be in the US later this year doing a type rating for an a/c greater than 12,500lbs. I'm going through the TSA process at the moment and hold a UK passport. It seems that most (if not all) the people that have undertaken TR training have done so on the visa waiver.

Is there UK passport holder out there who has been granted TSA authority to undertake TR training on an a/c greater than 12,500lbs and then been refused entry because they did not have a visa.

Secondly, and perhaps a bit optimistically, has anyone got the name of a responsible person at the US embassy who can provide a definitive answer to this recurring theme.

Provo

Dose the EU nationals needs a (TSA) approval?
 

Hi every one

Lately the US issued a new system for the foreigners intending to study flying in its territory and to obtain the (TSA) approval before starting the training :ugh:

I would like to go for a type rating to add on my (FAA) license and the question is
- Dose this role include the EU nationals (France)?:{

ThanX

[QUOTEImmigration's own website will read that a student visa is NOT needed if
you would be in a course of study that is less than 22 hours per week of
classroom OR less than 18 hours per week of "practical" study.][/QUOTE]

I have a JAA ME/IR, I want to do a JAA CPL in FL. As I already have the IR my CPL is 15hours. Do I still need a visa? Iguess the answer is yes.

Provo,
I have just done a greater than 12500, actually a 28450 type rating, on a FAA license I got pre 9 11, and did not have a visa on a British passport, I was told I did not need one by the TSA (visa sect) and by the training facility.
I am back at home with type rating and ATP in hand, with no problems at all, I was honest and up front with IMM. Official and showed him the TSA paperwork. Just have everything (paperwork) in order and available.
PM if I can assist.