Hi guys. Just a quick question:

Where to do time building (around 40 hours) and WHY????. Maintenance... facilities... money... instructors...

- Daytona aviation acamedy (Daytona)
- Air America flight center (Daytona)
- Sunrise aviation (Ormond beach)

I'm from Spain, and as everybody, i guess, i'm worried about the hours recognized by the EASA legislation. I want to do time building with a mate of mine, flying as safety pilot. Any experience with any of these schools in which they gave you a certificate of hours that was valid in europe??

Thank's a lot guys!!!!

here is my opinion about air america in daytona. totally unprofessional.

I was going to do 100hrs of time building and we established on cessna 152 for 100hrs. After that i booked a place in daytona (not refundable) a month ago. When i checked with them 1 week prior, they said they already sold their 152 and i will not be able to do time building with that. They did not bother to let me know beforehand, maybe if i did not sent a mail 1 week prior i might have a huge problem.

Since i cannot refund the place i booked, i started searching somewhere close and found Deland Aviation. And luckly they offered me a better price on 152 and i finished 100hrs in 2 weeks. They have their own maintenance hangar so no worries there. Good instructors, good facility with a great simulator. I can definetly recommend that place. Bob is the owner, great guy.

Chandler Air Service is a good outfit but you want to go to Phoenix in the summer?? Last summer I saw temperatures reach 47C.

Do you mind to share your thoughts about visa issues etc? PM, if you don´t want to share it on public. Thank you so much!

5 years ago now, but friends have been there more recently and have had similarly good experiences.

Very high quality of instruction. If you have the money, do some aeros or tail wheel flying with them as they are second to none in that area.

No visa is required unless you plan on acquiring a full FAA license or new rating.

What jwscud said (actually he gave me a lot of advice when I went out there 3 years ago). Thoroughly enjoyed but I did struggle with the heat. Up to around 45°c some days and it just got unbearable. Done some practice aero's in the Pitts which was awesome.

Going flying as early as possible (preflighting in the dark, taking off at dawn) may help with the heat :cool:

I'm also heading out to CAS in April for a month.

Have heard some good feedback and the support from the team there so far has been excellent.

Would definitely advise getting the foreign licence verification process started if you haven't already. I commenced that in December and still haven't had confirmation. Can take up to 3 months as per the CAA and FAA websites.

Was there in April/May 2014. Great experience! Flying is second to none and CAS are top notch. I'd go back in heart beat. In two weeks got to San Diego, Vegas (over the Dam too), Grand Canyon, Sedona and down to Tucson and the Mexican border. Chandler airport is super busy. Coming in one day I had landing traffic parallel to me on other runway to my left and heli doing circuits off a taxiway to my right. You have to be on the ball...

Apart from the flying Phoenix is amazing. Super organised, friendly and just nice place to hang out. Did a off road drive one day (Tortilla Flat) which was only a half hour drive from Chandler. Would love to have had an extra week to check out the night life.

You won't regret it...

PF,

What was the costing like for the amount of flying you did??

I had some quotes in the region of ,$8000 - $9000 for between 60-80 hours..

I did 60 hours at $88 an hour = $5280 (minus 10% for having cash on account)
Car rental = $200 for 2 weeks
House rental from CAS = $350
Food = $400
Flights €700 return

Exchange rate has worsened since so will cost a bit more. I remember working it out at about €100 per hour for what I did. But personally I saw it as a holiday as much as any training that I did so you can reduce it for what you'd value flying across the Grand Canyon P1, which for me is a lot.

Great memories...

What aircraft were you on?

Cherokee.. 40 years old and not a bother out of her...

Have a chat with Westwind Aviation at Deer Valley (just north of Sky Harbour). Having relatives in Phoenix, I chose to go out there for hour building with a mate and Westwind were nothing but professional, straight up, helpful with brilliant staff and especially rates on aircraft (we paid $99 per hour wet if I remember rightly) that were reliable and well maintained. Infact, they even made sure that any routine work was carried out overnight so that out flying programme wasn't affected. I took N54715, a C172 which is no spring chicken but served me very well. It was owned by one of the in house engineers so was extremely well looked after. My mate took another, much newer C172 out which was very up to date in terms of equipment.

Can't recommend Phoenix highly enough, especially Deer Valley. Those 4 weeks gave us very fond memories and in fact 6 years on both of us that went out there are now flying big Boeings but would give our right nut for another lads trip with a couple of 172's around the West Coast.

Good luck and enjoy!

PS just a few quick tips...

- Fly over to North Las Vegas and do a night out.

- Lake Havasu has cheap fuel and a nice town for lunch

- LAX VFR Corridor from San Diego up to Santa Barbara is amazing

- Just to the south west of Sky Harbour is some high ground. The other side of that high ground is heading towards Luke Airforce Base and you'll be talking to Luke Approach. Go and fly around for a bit just west of the high ground and you'll find a few F15's will come and play with you!

Sorry for rabbiting on but it's the best lads trip I've ever done.
Loads of flying, loads of beer and loads of fun!

This has been done to death.

You cannot county any safety pilot or time with safety pilot towards EASA requirements.

It wouldn't be recognised anyway.

Stop trying to get around the system!

Well three days now until my hour building trip out to Chandler.

2 Whites 2 Reds your post was very motivational and I've decided to cover some of the same things in my trip. Sadly I've not managed to drag anyone else out with me so I'll be heading out solo!

However, looking forward to a month of flying and I will report back with any pertinent information.

I would look for rental options in Oregon or Illinois during summer. Canada might be an option too.

"Did a off road drive one day (Tortilla Flat) which was only a half hour drive from Chandler."


Jeepers - what were you driving !?! Half an hour?


Flying in the Phoenix area can be very good but no one here seems to have mentioned sheer density of traffic or heat stress (other than to say that heat doesn't usually bother you Pilot Lad and to start early in the day); the Phoenix training and transition areas are some of the busiest you will find anywhere in the world in terms of volume of traffic, with plenty of mixed types (they are F16's '2 whites 2 reds', and F-35's now, also flown by low houred pilots, albeit Airforce), lots of English as a second language over the airwaves (and that's not just the locals), and historically, a number of mid-air collisions (google for more details of recent accidents) between training aircraft; a particularly nasty one involving a Chandler based Cherokee not too long ago.


Heat (and it's getting hot now) is a big deal in Phoenix. Density altitude can become limiting but the biggest safety factor in my experience is tiredness: fatigue and dehydration - leading to distraction and reduced awareness in the cockpit with a resultant degradation in lookout. Keep hydrated with plenty of water, avoid downing copious amounts of beer every night and p a c e yourself but above all else - LOOKOUT and try to keep safe.

Yeah definitely I wouldn't go to Phoenix between April and October. I can't stand heat, not that kind of. Luckily there are some good options up in the North.

@ReverseBucket: Didn't take long at all to get to. Obviously it was longer than half an hour but I'm just talking about the drive to where it got scenic.

It's exactly a year to the day I started flying in Chandler. What I'd do to go back...

The heat can be bad (even in April/May). I found once you got up the air it was fine. The hardest thing about the temperature was that it would be so quite cold at 10/11,000ft and 35/40 degrees on the ground. You'd have to wear a jumper starting out and leave the door hanging open on taxi to be in any way comfortable.

Rbucket is right about the traffic. There are countless training schools there (a lot of em foreign). Lufthansa even have their own private airfield. I saw everything from fighter jets to USAF 137s (I think) doing circuits. When doing transition over Sky Harbor you'd have commercials landing/taking off under you with A320s/B737s on the approach at same height.

Still, as cautious as you have to be, it was by far the best flying I've done to date. The ATC in the States is second to none.

Btw, Payson has a great cafe!

@RedBullGaveMeWings
 

Forgive me for the OT, but would you like to share more details on what you call ? :)

I don't remember the name of those places right now, but I suggest you give a look at sites like FlightSchoolDB or BestAviation, you may find schools in Oregon, Ohio, Minnesota and so on.
You do not need any visa for hour building, so you will have a lot of options to choose from. It doesn't have to be a flight school. An aircraft owner that rents his aircraft out is a good option too. If you can find one.

Based on what factual knowledge?

This is one of the places I was referring to:
Airplane Rental Duluth, MN Superior, WI - Superior Flying Services

Hour building in the States
 

Hey Guys, apologies for asking a question that has probably been answered already.I'm heading to the states during the summer to build hours in a helicopter and am having trouble getting concrete information. My two questions are.
How long does it take to change an EASA license to an FAA one?
Do I need a M1 visa for hour building? Due to insurance requirements at the place that I'm renting the R22, a CFI will be with me on all my flights. Does this affect the visa situation. I'm pretty sure if the CFI wasn't there I wouldn't need an M1 visa.
Cheers in advance for any information.

You don't need to convert your EASA licence to FAA. There's a procedure you have to go through that would allow you to obtain a temporary FAA licence which is based on your EASA licence.
You do not need any visa for hour building, if the immigration agents ask you what you are up to, just tell them that you coming for a vacation and a tour on your own in the States. Better not mention the verb "to fly" though.
A safety pilot doesn't imply you are enrolled in a course.

Thanks for the reply, How long does it take to change your licence to an FAA temporary one? It says on the FAA website that getting one take 45-90 days!! Surely it doesn't take that long???

I have always known that this was the the time it usally takes on average... The FAA would have to deal with your local authority. If it is Swedish or British it may take less than 40 days, if it is Greek or Italian... well good luck.

Ok, cheers for the info.

Never a good idea to suggest that information be withheld from the CBP officer at the port of entry.
If they decide to search your bags and find flight relating material they will likely take a very dim view.

Cu Chulainn

As part of the process for obtaining a FAA certificate based on your current EASA license, you will need to undertake a Flight Review to ensure that you are up to the standard required. There is also a related ground review so you should get the current FAR/AIM and study it.
Are you current on the R22? it seems odd that the place that you are renting from won't allow you to go solo.
Having a CFI with you will increase your $ costs quite substantially. You will also need to get it clear as to who is actually PIC. The CFI won't be wanting to be a passenger and not gaining any hours in his own logbook.

Thanks for replying,
I agree with you re; the visa stuff. I'm determined to get everything above board, The US immigration take a very dim view of any chancers and obviously I want to avoid that. It's just that Hour building falls into a gray area, I'm not under taking a course of study, I'm not gaining any certificate from what I'll be doing either in the states or anywhere else.
A mate of mine did fixed wing hour building in Florida in 2013 and they made him show his logbook at immigration because they didn't believe him, but once he had shown them it they left him off. He went in on the visa waiver program.
I'm 100% sure that I'm PIC. I'm rated on the R44 but thinking of doing the Robinson safety course in the R22 as preparation for hour building. It's the cheapest hourly rate by some distance.

You don't need a student VISA for hour building. I have done this many times (I have a FAA PPL based on EASA PPL). The BFR isnt training because it doesnt count as credit towards a certificate or qualification.

To avoid hassle at immigration I've refrained from saying I was there to hour build (which implies training) but instead said that I was there on vacation and that I intended to rent an aeroplane. Which I did. I went all over the north east on a grand tour with my family.

One final bit of advice. If you are in doubt get a lawyer to figure it out. If you get into trouble and then refer the judge to a bunch of unqualified people (in legal terms) talking crap online will not help you. If you got legal advice and it was bad you have comeback.

The only time a visa would be required for the Flight Review would be if the Instructor were to refuse to sign it off for whatever reason and further training were required to meet the US PTS standard.
If you are planning to do the Robinson Safety Course at the factory in Torrence, you need to get it booked as they fill up some months in advance. Current cost is around $450 for the course which includes 1 hour in the R22.

Does anyone know of a place where they allow you to rent a plane for several days and take it to another state?

"The only time a visa would be required for the Flight Review would be if the Instructor were to refuse to sign it off for whatever reason and further training were required to meet the US PTS standard.
If you are planning to do the Robinson Safety Course at the factory in Torrence, you need to get it booked as they fill up some months in advance. Current cost is around $450 for the course which includes 1 hour in the R22."

Gomrath, are you 100% sure of this? BFR nor 61.57 are additional ratings/certificates, and training towards an acceptable Flight Review is not training towards a rating or certificate. Can you find any rulings/evidence to support your opinion?

Nice machine or cheap metal?
 

Im thinking of buying my own light aircraft and leasing it out for hour building when I'm not using it to cover my costs.
I really like the DA40 but need to justify the cost!

A question for anyone who is looking to do some hour building in the future:
Would you rather rent an old 152 for $100 per hour, or a fully equipped glass DA40 for about $150?

C152 for $100, but that is just me.

VISA NOT Required if you fail a flight review
 

A visa is ONLY required on a FULL TIME training course doing over 18hrs of flying a week.

If you intention is to go to the USA to rent an aircraft and fly then you do NOT need a visa.

If you were not up to speed and needed more flying then as long as you dont exceed the 18 hrs then your good.

Trust me I do this all the time for 61.75 flight reviews.

dera,

Admission of nonimmigrants to the US under the B visa class (i.e. visitors, including those admitted under the visa waiver program) is conditional on the visit not being for the "purpose of study" [1] and a change of status is needed before a course of study can be started [2]. The US Department of Justice, in a memorandum to its regional directors issued in April 2002 [3], provides insight into its interpretation of "course of study":

In itself it is an unreasonable inference to state that a few hours' refresher flying constitute a "course of study." How does one distinguish between refresher training for its own sake, and training that is creditable toward a further qualification as for example in the case of a 61.75 holder seeking a standalone US private pilot certificate? In fact this problem of dual purpose isn't limited to US certification because training could be received from an instructor qualified as such only under a foreign authority, leading to the instructed person acquiring a foreign qualification. Such training cannot lead directly to a US airman certificate [4], yet thousands of EASA PPL holders have been trained under these circumstances in the United States and it would be wrong to view their training as anything but "courses of study."

Under the most conservative view any training received from any person in the US for any qualification purpose can be deemed a "course of study." If you want a more civilised form of tyranny try Canada.

[1] Immigration and Nationality Act 101(a)(15)(B).

[2] 8 CFR 248.1(c).

[3] Memorandum for Regional Directors, et al. Office of the Executive Associate Commissioner, US DOJ. April 12th, 2002. Available at: http://www.eandvh.com/engine/pubs/ge...spx?id=40&dl=1

[4] 14 CFR 61.41(a)(2).