Hour Building USA - (Master thread)
 

Hi there,

I currently have a UK JAR PPL (19 PIC hours) and have just taken the final amount of ATPL theory examinations which i studied with Bristol Ground School. I want to do the remaining hours abroad and gain experience flying elsewhere and then come back to the UK and do my CPL/ME/IR.

I've been reading a number of threads about hour building and i cant get my mind on where to go and who to go with. I've listed below a few of my specifications.

1) I want to go somewhere with good weather for instance USA or Europe. I've noticed that a lot of you have said Phoenix, AZ.

2) It has to be cheap.

3) Has to have nearby Accommodation which is reachable within a 10 - 15 min walking distance or even better, onsite (I haven't passed my driving test yet :O).

4) What procedures (e.g. forms to fill in) do i have to do to be able to go to a particular country and do my hour building.

5) Be able to have good availability of aircraft.

6) Possible to finish hour building withing 4 - 8 weeks max.

7) Would there be a instructor available on hand if needed.

Would be grateful for the help.

Thanks

usa
 

Why not see Florida flyers school?.i ll be there in decembermore or less

That made me laugh, isn't the first thing you learn about flying is that it isn't cheap!

I'm at the end of my hour building phase and I bought a share in an aircraft at my local airfield. Good availability, weather was good enough during the summer and having it local allowed me to carry on studying for ATPLs and working to build up the money. Not cheap but certainly less expensive than some methods.

Also having an aircraft in the UK has been useful as I've been able to take friends for flights, so they've paid for they're share of the cost, effectively halving my hourly rate on some flights!

I didn't go there in the end due to getting a good deal in Europe for hour building, but I had brief correspondence with Chandler Air Service (I think that's correct) in AZ and they seemed to be well priced and good folk.

I think it's fantastic that you've got a PPL but not a driving license! :p I wonder how many people fall into that category? :)

I'd highly recommend Chandler Air Service, but you need a rental car. The public transport in the states is crap.

Pilots Paradise | USA Flying Holidays
Maybe this is an option, I know of 1 guy from my ATPLs that went there. I haven't really talked to him about it, but it might be something to look at yourself.
Park your plane outside the accommodation, you can't ask for much more than that. :)

Other than that, as has been mentioned, look into your options at home as well. If you have friends and family will to share a bit of the cost it might be surprising how cheap it would cost you overall.

I've flown out of Palm Springs, CA a few times. There are several rental outfits there - the town itself is a nice spot to be and has a choice of variously prices places to stay. Everything's close enough together that you can either walk, or just use a short cheap taxi ride. All the FBOs there seem to look after their aeroplanes well, always have instructors on hand, and you're far enough from the LA Basin to avoid most of the nasty airspace. Lots of nice trips to be done out of there and consistently excellent weather (just take lots of water, and get used to doing density altitude calculations).

Getting there from the UK, there are various connecting flights into Palm Springs international that are reasonably affordable - it also avoids the joys of LAX.

As for getting a US licence - just google "14 CFR 61.75" and you'll find all the answers. Or just search in the private flying section of PPrune - that particular topic gets discussed regularly and you should find all the answers very easily.

I would second Chandler Air Service.

I have recently returned from flying nearly 70 hours. There was a guy staying in the school accommodation who used a push bike to get back and forth the airport as he didn’t drive (its one straight road although probably a 25 minute cycle). Also if you go on ‘air b’n’b’, you can find even cheaper accommodation that’s really close to the airport.

If you are planning to go to CAE Oxford for the waypoint modular programme then I would definitely suggest Chandler as it is in Phoenix airspace. When I was there I flew in and out of Oxford Goodyear airport – got to check out the OAA school there, and got to know the local airspace and popular routes, which I’m sure will help for the CPL/MEP that you do out there with Oxford.

Instruction is great at Chandler. Aircraft availability is good because they never seemed to overbook the flight rental aircraft and they have a reasonably sized fleet. They train on Warriors but use Cherokees for rental usually (as they are the cheapest). I never had issues with availability. I completed 70 hours in 4 weeks.

Oh and remember.... a lot of US schools quote hourly rates without tax added!

Any more questions feel free to PM.

If only you could share the hours...

well apparently this place (Flight Program - Time Build Inc - Flight Time Building Program) says that you earn PIC hours while flying as a safety pilot :S.

if FAA/US only pilot flew as safety pilot (and not as instructor) that legal with some caveats done to death on pprune and gazillion other websites. The European/non-US pilot would be the only PIC in their books, but as per FAA regs, when the handling/controls manipulating EASA etc chap is under hood, then the safety pilot is acting as PIC keeping lookout etc. I don't see why European guys could not have it OK'd by home CAA when the other person is not instructor/instructing. Logging lots of time as S/P in FAA system may be frowned upon by some companies, though.

I Finally made my decision, i decided to choose Chandler air Services. I received good feedback about them from a lot of different people.

Hour Building USA January 2014
 

Hello everyone,

I've searched endlessly for recent posts and feedback on hour building in the states...namely Florida and still haven't found great success.

I am flying out to florida mid January 2014 and would appreciate any great feedback from anyone who has recently completed hour building with a flying school in Florida or its surrounding areas.
I have emailed several schools and got very generic responses.

I am considering the Pan AM academy in Kissimee, Flight Time Building and Chandler Air Services.

I would really appreciate any feedback or advice on any of these three or any that you may know of.

Many Thanks

A future budding pilot

Let us know how you get on.

I hope to be in your position soon

@AirForceNone - Will do mate. I just sent my license verification forms off on Monday to the UK CAA and FAA, so I'm hoping i get the Verification letter by the end of December or start of January. I emailed Chandler Air Services too and asked for a quote and they quoted me for 80 hours all taxed including accommodation with the checkout and ground training due to the mountains over in Arizona - £6045 which to me is a bargain. I am going to browse around for other accommodation and see what they can provide me with.

Hi weedman

What aircraft did they offer you for this price?

Thanks

@straighten up

I think they offered me PA28 cause when they told me to email them when i phoned them up, they told me to email them with my details and what flying experience i have got. I told them that i flew Cessna 152's and PA28's so i'm sure that they quoted me for a PA28.

I can email them and find out for you though?

I don't really mind if its in a Cherokee to be honest. It will be a good experience and a learning curve for me.

Thanks

Time building
 

Hello

Looking to do time building in New England are in 2014.

Any tips?

Thanks

£6045 for 80 hours, all taxed including accomodation, checkout and ground school???
I knew they were good and cheap, but I could never expect such an offer!

Weedman, do you have any experience on Piper aircraft?
I have only flown Cessnas so far and was wondering if they provide a sort of familiarization course.

@Redbullgavemewings

Hahaa, exactly and i got quoted in the UK for 80 hours well over 10k

I have around 3 hours dual and 4 hours solo on a Piper Warrior PA28, i normally fly cessna's too but i have to get some dual hours in the UK before i go to the states because i haven't flown since November 2012 mainly because i concentrated on my ATPL'S. Now i have them out of the way i can concentrate on the hours and just fly full time!

I think Chandler Air Services will be able to help you out because personally i think those approx 3 days for the checkout and ground training will be enough to get familerised with the aircraft even if you haven't flown the PA28's before. Mind you i might even get made to fly the Piper Cherokees they have there because they are even cheaper. But anyway think the best thing for you to do is ask your instructor where you completed your PPL and tell him/her that you want to fly the PA28. Thats what i did.

Hope this helped.

No Pipers at the place I am doing my PPL, but I wouldn't mind some familiarization hours during hour building with an instructor.


Thanks!

Yeah i'm pretty sure they will provide that there when they offer you the ground training and the flying. Because then again they have to do a checkout!

@RedBullGaveMeWings

Just thought I'd let you know that Chandler Air Services gave me a quote on the PA28, so even if i chose to be on the Piper Cherokee the price would be even cheaper for me :)

Thanks, I appreciate the update. I will be writing them in a few.

Does anyone know of a good place to do multi hours time in Central Florida?

Try this place:

FlyMiami | Dean International - Miami Flight School - South Florida

They are based in Miami.

Just make sure you are actually going to get what you think you're getting

Taxes, wet rates..... and the number of (propper) P1 hours quoted.

Pacific air, CA
 

I posted in the N America forum but no reply. Wondering if anyone has any experience of this firm out of Long Beach airport, CA. They've quoted me $89/hr wet incl tax in a 152. Any feedback appreciated.

Just a quick question. To those who hour build in the US, do you take friends or other buddies with you? Just curious.

Second note: are you allowed to fly multi engine p1? Or does there have to be a safety pilot on board?

Hour Building recommendations and advice
 

Hello !
I'm a newbie to this site, but i do have a question, which I could use a bit of advice on.

i am currently living in the UK and doing my PPL :ugh:. I grew up in the US (Albuquerque, NM) and I plan to head back there to do my hour building to reach the CPL prerequisites (150 hours, i believe?) as it seems like the most cost effective way to build my hours taking onto consideration the cost of building hours in the UK, especially since accomodation would already be taken care of- my old man stil lives in ABQ! :D

i'm wondering if the 'hour building' stage which sets you up for the CPL is normaly done in a single engine, such as a Piper or a C152/172 etc, or if its worth using some of these c 100 hours to build up Multi time?
Obviously i would need to obtain a rating for the Multi, but would it help if i used this time (and money) towards building both, and then go into my CPL and ATPL theory with experience in both?

Also, would it be a good idea to start my ATPL Theory whilst building hours?

just trying to get to grips with the best way to progress! My aim, if you hadnt already guesed, is to fly for a living, and i am going the modular route as i dont have £80+K to part with at the prime age of 22, for the integrated route .. thanks for reading, and i appreciate anyones '2cents'. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

forever the optimist.

in your case wouldn't it be 250 hours?

if you are smart, you will use the time to get an instrument rating


of course it is expensive but its up to you...I hate the single cessnas...try piper.

thanks for the advice FlarePilot.

Ive done most of my training in a Piper Warrior and i enjoy it, but from a cost perspective the Cessna seems to come out cheaper. Suppose this is more down to preference and is not so important..

so you are saying the entry requirements for CPL are 250hours TT to begin the CPL? I'm sure I read somewhere that is was 150hours TT to start CPL? is this different stateside as i may do ALL of my training out there..

the IR is a good idea although if i do this is in a single, would i then need to repeat that for a MEIR?

sorry for the questions and appreciate the help :ok:

Not sure if it's different in the states (don't see why it would be, assuming still under the EASA regime) but 150h TT to start the CPL is correct.

I think the experience of hour building in a twin would be good, but honestly I don't think it's worth the amount extra you would be spending. The other problem (maybe easier in the states) is finding someone to let you rent a twin when you have virtually no experience. Think insurance requirements etc.

You can do a single engine IR as part of 'hour building' if you wish but bear in mind that you need exams completed for this, and you also need to make sure you're going to end up with enough PIC time for licence issue (hearing rumours that it will now be required to sit the CPL skills test). You do not have repeat the IR to get a multi engine version, but there is a conversion course as such. I believe it's 5 hours of which 3 can be done on a sim (from memory).

Lastly, theory before, during or after hour building is really up to you. I personally did the theory first doing maybe an hour a month just to keep my hand in, and then did the majority of the hour building afterwards. My reasoning for this was the I figured that the hour building was going to be the chance to be the most 'current' I ever had been to this point. Doing between 50-100h in a month or so should leave you very 'in tune' with the skills required, especially if you use the hour building properly to practice for CPL stuff (Cross countries to different places, different turning points, diversions in flight etc without a GPS). I think it is wise then to start the CPL straight after the hour building while you are still on top form, instead of doing the hour building, then sitting indoors doing theory for half a year then jumping into an airplane having done maybe a few hours in the last 6 months and hope to fly to CPL standard.

Thinking of heading Stateside myself. Have around 94 TT and 54 PIC. My priority will be the TT for CPL start. Just wondering should I do MEP rating while Stateside? Would this save a few hundred Euro later on during MEIR? Or is it all the same whether you do MEIR together? Since I have to build up to 200 hours by CPL test anyways might it be good idea as it would be cheaper out there and spread the learning a little more?

Any advice on sequence of training would be much appreciated!

A few years ago when I was at the same stage of my training I considered paying extra for twin time, but it is completely pointless unless you are planning on doing Flying Instruction, Air Taxi or similar work. Airline recruiters won't care - except with passing interest as a topic of conversation.

The key things with hour building is (a) do it economically, (b) have a helluva lot of fun buying bacon butties at far-flung aerodromes, and (c) incorporate a little bit of training, such VOR tracking, Flight plan trips into foreign countries etc.

At no other time in your life will you be 'forced' to fly 100 hours in a relatively short space of time. Right now you might be thinking mainly in terms of getting the hour-building done so that you can start the commercial licence, but in the future you'll look back on it as a wonderful opportunity to fly expensive aeroplanes for fun!

Requirement to start CPL training is 150h.

However, keep in mind that CPL training is around 37-45 hours of flying, whilst the requirements to undertake the exam is a minimum of 200h.

You need 250h to get a frozen ATPL. That's once you've done alll the necessary training (which does not need, but is highly recommended to have JOC).

I recommend doing the ATPL first if you're doing it here in Europe (EASA). It's what I'm doing. I miss the crap out of flying, but that way I concentrate on my ATPL exams. Remember that here it's 14 exams, not 2, like in the US. Also, that way when I get back to flying, it'll 100% of the time flying and no huge delays between flight sessions. This will keep me fresh and up to date. I recommend you do the same.

I'm told the ATPL theory is the hardest part of flight training, and I'm hoping that the peron who told me this (airline pilot) is right, because it's very tiring to do that AND a university degree at the same time.

If you do ATPL theory exams, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO CPL THEORY. ATPL covers all the material and beyond. CPL in EU is 9 exams if I'm not mistaken (1 in the US).

Before you think about doing your ATP in the US and then converting, part of the conversion is taking those 14 exams, so it would be a waste of time and money.

I hear many people arguing about whether you should do your hour building in the US or not. I can't really contribute to that debate to be honest.

There's one thing I cans ay however. Wherever you do your hour building, MAKE IT COUNT.

That means, don't spend 90 hours doing cross countries with friends on board and pottering around in the local area. Get an instructor to fly with you every X number of hours. Have him correct you to a CPL standard. Make him give you exercises and skills to practice when you're flying alone. And try to visit as many different airspace and airfields/airports as possible.

One thing I started doing after I got my PPL was begin a Flying Diary. After every flight I would write an entry about what happened in the flights, what mistakes I made and how I think I could have avoided making them. I would also add bullet points for things I believed I needed to work on for next flight, and which problems I had successfully eliminated that I had outlined in previously entries. It had become part of my postflight routine after filling out all the logbooks.
I plan on doing this once more when I get back to flying.

There's a book, "Commercial Pilot's License", by Anneli Christian-Phillips, which gives a bunch of useful information to know about the CPL and how to be best prepared for it.

Summary (tl;dr):

if you want to go into airlines or do ATPL at all, skip CPL theory, go to straight to that
You need 150h to qualify for CPL training, but 200h to qualify for the examination
Best to do all the theory first, then fly. More efficient and better for learning retention
When you do hour build, make it count for something by learning as you gain experience.
PPL is a license to learn

Night hour building.

Im planning on being in the USA around August to do some night flying. What would be the best area to do it in? I know that time of year the weather in the USA can be a bit unpredictable?

East Coast preferably but Midwest may be an option. Any suggestions appreciated.

funkydreadlocks, I just want to correct a couple of things (unless they have changed fairly recently).

CPL training is not 37-45 hours training, it is a 25 hours minimum reducing to 15 if you already hold an IR. It may be true that not everyone does it in minimum time but I personally haven't heard of many (any if I'm honest) going up close to 40.

If you were saying this to include the IR, then it is perhaps closer to that depending on the sim/flying time split.

Also 250h is NOT a required for an "fATPL" primarily for the reason that there can be no requirements for it as it technically doesn't exist. It is merely a term commonly used to refer to having a CPL, MEIR, MCC and ATPL Theory completed. This can be done with a minimum of I believe 200h + CPL test time.

I don't think this is correct. You simply need the minimum 70 PIC time and total time of 150 to take the CPL test. The 200 hour figure is the minimum for CPL 'issue'. Most people do the MEP and IR and then apply for CPL issue at the end of the training.

As funkydreadlocks says, don't waste AVGAS burning holes in the skies, but I don't agree that you should make sure every flight counts in a 'training' sense. Have FUN! Take your family and friends for flights.

But like all things, a balance between fun and purpose is important. The CPL is not difficult and if you've done a bit of beacon bashing during your hour-building you'll be fine. The IR is the hard part because of the multi-tasking and your hour-building won't be of much help with that, but if you bear that your ultimate aim is to be a commercial pilot, so use your time wisely.

thanks alot for the advice everyone. much appreciated!:ok:

So, building multi time in the states may be useful from a training/experience standpoint, but not so cost effective when the goal is primarily to build hours (and have fun, of course). thanks for that tip, however, i may still do some time in a twin while im out there,just to get a feel for it, and may even get my Multi rating while im there (still cheaper than UK!) - isnt the multi rating accomplished with only a handful of hours with an instructor?

With regards to the ATPL (UK) - if i was to do the theory in the UK, exams and all, and then do the rest of my training ( IR, CPL, MCC) in the US, how does the license conversion work? by that my mean ATPL UK > ATP US, with the intention of utilising these licenses stateside.

While on the topic of ATPL theory, has anyone done this ( ideally the 'distance learning' method) and could shed some light on the level of complexity, and what you did to remain focused through the study and exams, while working?