CABAIR - General discussion for those involved.
 

I have closed the old Cabair thread because it was degenerating.

This thread is for those involved to post any relevant information as it comes to hand in order that the aviation community may follow the progress.

I must point out that anything posted should be from 'open source' rather than private letters or emails that the originator would not wish, or be aware of, publication.:=

Halfwayback

Does anybody know if the 7th November ground school course at Bourenmouth is on or off? There is absolutley no info coming forth on this front.

All those 'involved' with commercial training at Cranfield (flying and groundschool) don't really need this thread as we're in communication with Cabair and FL500. If Anyone has been missing out on information they need to speak with FL500 and confirm their name and course they are on against a list of students.

As a Cabair student this is where I am getting my information from.

Current students are unlikely to post lots of information on PPRUNE (and are advised to bite their lip on the Internet) as it could look bad for a company we want to survive and complete our training & help with jobs at the end of our course.

Reading the speculation and words from those not In The Know is comical at times and the motives of some posters is highly questionable.

G-RICH and others,

CIA Ltd. is the parental holding company set up last year with the new ownership of the investor group headed by Clive Dolman, Ludwig Bertsch and Tim Talaat in December.

The previous owners, including Steve Read, became minority owners as all existing companies including those in America were rolled up as subsidiaries of the new CIA Ltd. With CIA Ltd. in administration all of the dependent companies are effectively as well.

Re posting details: I have been on PPRUNE since the mid 90's with hundreds of posts, but none in the past two years. Apparently the join date was reset in 1999 and post count more recently. This further dashes my hope of ever seeing I.F. Snailtrails on here again.

Cabair structure - Companies House data
 

]Historically, the main business of Cabair seems to have been conducted by companies owned by Cabair Holdings Ltd (CHL). In March 2009 (latest available accounts, the March 2010 accounts are overdue) the CHL Directors were Stephen Read, MC Henry, Shahriar Peyami , S Hinton-Lever and MJ Bradley Russell: the latter three were appointed in late 2008. CHL had a positive balance sheet of £5.2M but this consisted almost entirely of the cost of investments in its subsidiaries. Operating profit was £80k.

In May 2010 Flying Pictures Ltd bought 10% of CHL prior to a proposed merger which subsequently does not seem to have happened. Colin Prescot and James Hunter Smart, the CEO and Financial Director respectively of Flying Pictures Ltd were appointed as a Directors of CHL in May 2010 but resigned in October 2010.

In early 2011 three new investors were reported (by Flyer magazine) to be buying the majority of shares in CHL and a new CEO and CFO were appointed. Between December 2010 and April 2011 the entire shareholding of CHL was acquired by Cabair International Aviation Ltd, one of three companies formed immediately prior to this announcement (the others were Cabair (UK) Ltd and Cabair (Overseas) Ltd). No accounts are due to be published yet for these three companies.

Cabair International Aviation Ltd was put into administration in October 2011. The ownership of this company is not recorded as it is too recent to have submitted a return.

CHL subsidiaries are/were - Over The Pond Ltd (which seems to own 65% of the Cabair USA operations), Cabair Helicopters Ltd, World Aviation Holdings Ltd (see below) and Plane Talking Ltd. The latter appears to be an aircraft owning company, with £4.1M of fixed assets on its books at March 2010, but bank borrowings/loans totalled £3.1M and total liabilities exceeded assets by £1.1M, even when a claim of £951k for ‘defective engines’ is assumed to be an asset.

CHL also owns/owned Cabair Group Ltd (CGL). CGL in turn owns/owned Cabair Ltd, Cabair Maintenance Ltd, Cabair Flying Schools Ltd and Cabair College of Air Training Ltd. The latter three are seemingly the active trading companies in CGL. In June 2009 CGL sold European Pilot Training Academy Ltd to World Aviation Holdings Ltd (WAHL - see below) for £2 and sold 100,000 CGL deferred shares to WAHL for £100,000 (but CGL had not been paid by March 2010). CGL also owns about 10 dormant historic companies.

CHL owned World Aviation Holdings Ltd until it sold it in December 2008 for £160k, at a loss to CHL of £176k. Stephen Read, MC Henry, Shahriar Peyami and MJ Bradley Russell were shareholders and directors of WAHL at 31 March 2010. WAHL owns Wycombe Air Centre Ltd and bought 80% of Worldwide Aviation Ltd (aircraft maintenance company) for £280k during the year ended March 2009. As noted above, WAHL also acquired European Pilot Training Academy Ltd from CGL in June 2009. All the WAHL shares were acquired by Cabair International Aviation Ltd in December 2010.

Cabair Consultants Ltd and Cabair International Ltd are dormant companies.

Knowing nothing about the current situation the key question for Wannabes not yet sold on a CABAIR course is; why not go elsewhere?

People will all have their own responses to that question. Those responses will determine the future for the flying school known as CABAIR.

I have no crystal ball. Perhaps I don't need one.


WWW

Presumably the replacement will be deemed a new company, subject to the rigours of the CAA approval checklist (form SRG\1175, http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1175Issue1.pdf).

What are the criteria in section 17 that is considered 'evidence for sufficient funding'? Should there be a tick box for 'previous fiduciary history' and 'moral courage'?

My heart sinks.

G-RICH

My understanding of the current situation is that all the other parts of Cabair that are "unnecessary" to the survival of commercial training at Cranfield have been either wound up, sold off in management buyouts or bought by the previous owners.

The situation for students isn't a bleak as you might think, that's all I'm saying for now.

That's probably what the Phoenix partnership told Nu Labour when taking over Rover, before winding up and trousering the last 11 Million squids, driving into the sunset in their - er - BMWs.

Cabair - good news, light at the end of the tunnel
 

Oh my God it's a train coming!:ouch:

I had expected to see the Phoenix rise by now.......or at least to see its 'flight plan' (perhaps even to FL 500) :hmm:

What makes you think there isn't a plan.. and that you should be privy to it?

WWW....... hit the nail on the head. Why indeed not look elsewhere if you're not yet committed to them?

I feel desperately sorry for the students involved in this mess, yet again the guys and girls handing over the money for training are up for a shafting. Surely time for the CAA to become more actively involved in the regulation of FTO's?!?!?!

As a past student (who left for another FTO along with almost everyone else on my course as soon as we could after completing modular groundschool), Cabair is an absolute shower of brown smelly stuff and having seen first hand how it treats students, I'm not surprised that it's going down the pan.

Best of luck to those involved. I hope purely for your sakes that this is resolved quickly.

@ G-RICH,

Without turning this into a race row.

Your comments on 'Greek practices' are downright ignorant, uncalled for and frankly racist, be careful what you write and stick to the topic or this will end up a political thread.

Two events very recently:

1) The lady working in Marketing was, in her words, officially made redundant
today. I got this from an open FB page.

2) In the December issue of FLYER, which came out over the weekend,
there was a short article by Cabair International Ltd CEO about an
imminent (by the end of the week) resolution to the 'restructuring', with
exisiting students expected to pay between an additional £10-15k .
Bearing in mind printing and delivery times I imagine the interview was
given at the end of October. :confused:

I think this ship has sailed. nevertheless I would LOVE to be PRIVY to the info held by T.F.C and others.

G-RICH: Could not agree more! ;)

Seconded here.

Agreed.

Where else do you have the potential for a company to trouser maybe £70k+ in a short period of time without having an effective regulator peering over their shoulder? Bankers probably eye this market jealously.

Time for change.

G-RICH's post from 21:51 is pretty accurate.

Err, Greece has run up massive national debt, and expects everybody else to foot the bill.

Surely, that is the current Greek (national) practice.

I have many greek friends and colleagues who I like and trust, but their nation is not a good neighbour right now and so the term "Greek Practices" hardly seems unreasonable.

G

The latest heard at Bournemouth today from some Cabair guys on the degree program is that they can no longer continue with the course and EPTA is finished.

The Pheonix would appear to have risen. "Cabair International" Ground School resumed operation today at Cranfield. Flight School expected to be up and running next week. :D

But the Authority can/will not grant FTO approval to an organisation that is in administration. If Cabair International has re-started approved training then it must be a 'going concern'.

Is cabair running?
 

Definitly no. I have been in front the door and I haven't seen any car parked on cabair. No people in the bulding at 11:30 am, so I suspect cabair is definitely close or in an invest period with any student/teacher.

Cranfield has indeed received approvals as of yesterday for residential ground and modular flying as Cabair International.

The old management (S.R.) have nothing to do with the ongoing concern. The investor group and the staff are committed to doing right by their students, despite the doom and gloom one reads here.

The Instructor staff have always been committed with an excellent sense of customer care & commitment to the students, it is sad that the past “management” could never live up to the example they, the instructors, set. If the new management team want to make an unrivalled success they need to consult with their instructor team and be highly visibly with their customers being seen a the solid support behind their team. Furthermore I would suggest that the “Cabair” brand name is now too toxic, so as soon as practicable there should be a name change. A mission statement that is committed to at all levels and seen to be done, not just given lip service to, must be the key objective from the outset.
I would like to live in hope that the recent cathartic events could lead to new energy being breathed back in to the patient so it recovers more resilient and successful to become a market leader. Delivery beyond market and client expectations should be the daily goal of everyone, not just for those at the coal face. Bona fortuna

It will be interesting to see whether the new Cabair International claims to be " a global provider of pilots worldwide for over 40 years".

thank you hashdef - your post is accurate and welcome.

secret agent man - again you are in possession of the facts.

dofi27 - you are wrong.

thank you to all those in this thread and the other large one who wished the students well.

i'd wish this thread closed now - more negative and clearly speculative posting from those not in the know isn't going to help anyone. integrated cranfield students are returning to flight school beginning monday morning.

end of story.

So when you add what integrated students paid to the old company and what they now have to pay to the new company, exactly how much will the total be for someone to complete a " Cabair " course or is that top secret and unhelpful speculation.

If you want to ask how much a course is going to cost here is the wrong place to ask.. I don't think Cabair Sale and Marketing frequent PPRUNE.

Call them 9am Monday morning.

G-RICH I think the opposite. The guys at Cabair are very busy right now!

...and so you know, there is no new owner. They didn't bolt out of the stable with a pot of cash, leaving all of Cabair to die. It's a lot more complicated than that. The existing investors have injected more money and their track record and the management's effort in taking care of the student liability in all this speaks volumes for their 'track record'.

The number for Cabair is available on their website. If a prospective student has the intelligence I'm sure they'll find their way there and in doing so be mindful of the BS they may hear, but also the rumours they read here!

Ask questions of the horse and get answers from the horses mouth.

So students who have been asked to stump up a little extra can relax in the knowledge that the alleged £15k blackmail was purely conjecture in the warped world of PPRuNe?

G-RICH,

If you care to PM me I will give you my personal telephone number.

Better still, PM your personal e-mail address and I will respond with my private e-mail address.

I am a CABAIR staff member (ATPL instructor).

I cannot be more fair than that. :)

So is it all back to normal at Cranfield now?

Hi all have been following your posts on the situation at Cabair....has anyone got any further info as to whether or not it would be a safe investment, I am considering it as one of my training providers as it does seem to have a good reputation in regards to quality of training and equipment used and also its very close to where I live which is massively convenient. Many thanks :ok:

I would say it is still a possibility to go there but you would have to be stark raving mad to pay for any training up front just like all the other schools.

Also as well there are going to be quite a few schools go tits up when the new regulations come in so it would be a prudent student who waits a bit and see's what the out come is.
But saying that the cost of flying training is likely to increase when they do come in.

Cabair Bournemouth
 

Does anybody here have any up-to-date information about the future of Cabair at Bournemouth? I've made numerous phone calls to Cabair at both Bournemouth and Cranfield but never with any success.

There are changes to both the maintenance and the way schools are run. There will be alot more inspections and red tape bollocks such as auditing and qa and the like which is never free.

They have already sent out invoices to all schools out the blue with the option of pay up or stop training.

I did my CPL with Bonus, next door to Cabair, at Cranfield.

I have some issues with them, which I'll not air here. However, they never asked for a penny for anything up front (indeed, sometimes the time it took them to ask for money was mildly embarrassing). And they're still in business. And I passed first time. Those three things would seem significant to the likes of James Darlington.

G

I have got through on the phone to both Bournemouth and Cranfield but nobody has been able to give me any up-to-date information. I have a suspicion that I have already met Lightning Mate in person but I will not disclose his true identity. As far as I know the staff at Bournemouth are still there but at this moment in time they are unable to continue training. I can only say positive things about the quality of instructing I have received so far. Hopefully Cranfield will sort things out soon.

Bournemouth do send a daily email but it's been "nothing to report" since Wednesday last week. I haven't heard anything from Cranfield which is where I'm assuming any decisions will be made.

@ James

you have quality modular training providers on your doorstep in Denham, Cranfield, Stapleford and more ...

and in Luton itself for the ATPL theory

spread the risk lower the cost and keep the day job :ok: