Advice needed urgently should i start now?
 

Basically ive been on and off these forums for a year now ,my situation is that im finishing my AS course going onto A2`s this september....im like many of those young ones aspiring to be a airline pilot......but cant make my mind up of when to start all i read from other peoples posts are positive or negative ....alongside a resccsion/high unemployment etc .....

however picture that im building in my head right now is 2 routes

1) see how the economy is next year january and hopefully apply to oaa to start in september ....(finish around 2012 ....does that put me in a good position for job prospects?


or


2) Do some sort of aviation degree for a year at city universerty ....tht should buy another year for the economy to recover then join oaa.



please people can i have decent opinions and stright answers although stright answers will be difficult .

Any help will be appreciated
Thank you

heya,

I'm pretty much in the same position as you, looking to go to OAA after finishing A levels.
What i've picked up from here (and elsewhere) is that doing an aviation related degree is not a good idea. If you are planning to go and do a degree do it on something else that way if becoming a pilot falls through you've got something else to fall back on.

I can't recommend enough to you do NOT get an aviation degree. What a waste of time. If you want a degree, get a proper one. If you want to be a pilot then train to be a pilot. If you want 'a back up plan' that people seem to go on about then do a PROPER degree and then train. As for the timing, why not get a job after you leave school, work for a year saving as much cash as you can and then use that for living expenses while training, and then consider the flying training at OAA? If your goal is to be a pilot and someone is willing to go guarantor for the money there is no desperate hurry to get it done right now.

yh thts true ive also considered tht aswell but tht would mean another 3 years or so with extra debt....,need some adivice to see if its gonna be the right time to start next year ..in order to see if i can get a job when i come out.....

If you are looking for a guarantee of a job join the RAF. Otherwise, welcome to the real world.

not looking for a ganrantee ,and ive seen and heard howz it lyk out there at the moment but 2013 job prospects going to be OK or still the same situation as we have today.

It is impossible to say. I would hope that things have begun to improve by then. I would strongly recommend going out and working in industry for a year or two to earn money and gain life experience. Consider flying lessons to solo or gliding as well to see how you fare in an aircraft. There is always a risk of not getting a job, I know nice guys and girls who couldn't get one 2-3 years ago and it was a very good time then. And I am not being an ar*e but spell things properly.

one question.... why only OAA?

You all seem to look for "advice" but wont take one telling you what is happening out there right now!
Why dont you just say that you want somebody to tell you, go ahead, now is the best time to ask your parents for 80K loan :ugh:
Time and time again and see highschool seniors coming on pprune talking about going to OAA or other FTO with integrated courses.
You all seem to talk about all this very "lightly", but yet you never had a proper job, lived on your own and have NO clue whats REAL life looks like, and what 80K loan means. :confused:
Well, do whatever you want... Its you parents money. :ugh:

Despite the title of the thread, the advice you are seeking isn't urgent. An hour or so reading these forums should give you a fairly good idea of the state of the aviation job market for low houred pilots. Experienced commercial pilots come to that.

There is no urgency, take your time and research your options carefully in your own time. While your at it, could you try and avoid using text speak in your posts, as it makes them look rather odd and unnecessarily rushed and clumsy?

gbb -- what is up with pprune always with negative comments.and infact i have had a proper job ive worked at my bro`s law firm in the city for 6 weeks and also have many retail experinece so dont be rude.

thebreak - i appreciate all you have said.

ba038 go for it. I've begun already (modular), i did get into OAA but i decided against it due to the current market conditions.

Be aware that it's rough out there but you can get a good training deal at the moment. I have multiple degrees (in maths, physics) but i can't for the life of me work out why people are calling aviation degrees rubbish? When i got on a graduate scheme i met people who had studied zoology, aviation related subject, botany etc and we all were training to become financial analysts and some like me have become quants! IMHO the classification of the degree is important but what you study isn't!


I'm loving every minute of flying ;)

Good luck :ok:

six weeks working in a law firm is not living in the real world.

ive been in the same place as you are in right now. the only thing i can say, like ive said before somewhere on here is decide with your brain, not your heart and you will make the decission right for you.

and again, one questoin... why OAA?

He`s choosen OAA because it is PERCIEVED that they have the best employment prospects after training.

Correct me if iam wrong?

first of all sorry for the mispellings and txt writing im at work and having to whizz bk and forth the forums....

i titled it urgent because of finance longstory........

many have asked why oaa......ive just mentioned it for an example and i most probably may go for it aswell as keeping in mind ctc ,fte ,cabair.

nashers - sixs week in a law firm ....also working in various different retail stores aswell as a waiter ...more or less the taste of the so called real world isnt that far off for me ....but i do take into account what you have said.

Quant;

Off topic i'm afraid but that is utter nonsense in my opinion, if the years I did in the city banks are anything to go by.

If anything what you studied and probably more importantly where you studied it are the crucial factors. I never saw anyone without a degree in a "proper" subject from a "proper" university even get an interview for any of the junior roles on the trading desks or equity research dept that I worked for. I'd sooner take someone with a 3rd in maths/physics/eng from a top institution over a 1st in botany/zoology/aviation related (excluding aero eng obviously).

Maybe he has been to OAA and liked the place? just a thought

Tottally agree with you james D.

NO! DO NOT START TRAINING NOW - or within the next 1-2yrs.

The airline industry is in MELTDOWN at the moment. Despite what FTOs are saying, it will take YEARS and YEARS to recover from the severe downturn we are in - and we still havent reached the bottom. IATA has doubled its original estimate of airline losses for this year. NO AIRLINES are recruiting at the moment (except for hold pools or pay to fly schemes). And they wont be recruiting for YEARS.

My advice would be take option 2 - got to UNI but do a "proper" degree. City flight ops degree is useless outside aviation so if you want a good backup plan for another career then look somewhere else.
OR get a job after your Alevels and work for a few years.

We have all been in your position of "WANTING IT REALLY BADLY and BECOMING A PILOT". However now is not the time to take the plunge. Remember the average age of Integrated students is 23-26. So you still have ages of time to start training. Dont rush into it because you have no rush.

Hope that is of some help/insight and good luck.

Exactly what iam dong at the moment, iam a year older though just finishing my A2 exams this summer. I will be working for the next few years so i dont hav debt when going into training.

Have you thought about doing your class one medical before you decide not to go to uni ?

I did mine this time last year, which secured my mind that i would work for a few years then go and train.

Aerospace101 - True to say but even though the whole entire industry is going downhill.....i am going to go integrated some time in the future....
its still hard decision to make because as if i do go uni and study and 2 years into the course the airline industry is starting to pick or has picked up i presume i will need to be in a position where i am trained and ready to go rather then start.....but all in all uni is an option for me aswell .....patience is probably key in my circumstances .....lets see how the airline industry is around 2010....

just to throw in aswell vince cable recently visited my college and is been proven that he was 1 of the few people to predict the recession,i posed him the question when do you think economy will start improving? ....he said to me no-one has the answer but his prediction was mid 2010......

Kiev23 - yes ive thought about it hopefully going to do it in august some time ...hopefully shouldnt have any problems.

Kiev23 - just to mention to you its easy to say ill work for a few years and save cash but as you work many things change from you day to day circumstances and you have certain desires that may make you spend money rather then save things such as fancy cars ,relationships,and plus many say you should get education done and dustied when your a young person,others may have different opinions but the point im trying to make is that once mooney is in your hands you may have other desires to spend it on ....and most probably youll end up working for the low sector jobs such as retail ,waitress,(unless you have links) .little pay and youll have to work your way up and once your up at the top in a company youll have doubts on weather to leave.

just my opinion.......but still its a viable option.

James:

What a complete load of bs... off course you're entitled to your opinion but i doubt you have worked for any city banks..

drivel...

Well I have, and I'd rather take on someone with a 3rd in Maths from Cambridge than a 1st in sociology from Middlemarch Poly. :}

Cheers

Whirls

Thats a bold statement, I've actually worked at two full time and a summer internship at another whilst at uni years ago. Most recent position trading interest rate & volatility derivatives at a large European house.

Its not so much my opinion but more an observation of how my superiors have gone about selecting which cvs to call in for interview at the banks i've worked for.

Are you a real "quant" or one of these middle office/IT fantasist types??

Whirlygig-Well said.

I saw plenty of candidates CVs, whose degree ended in "studies" or similar, fast tracked to the shredder bin by my boss.

It's quite clear you work in IT and have no experience what-so-ever working on any desk. Keep dreaming noobie and maybe one day you'll make it to the front desk with your 3rd class degree.

Quant, stop digging now - no need to get personal.

Your original premise

is flawed. Don't know how much actual recruiting you've done but I've done a fair amount including graduate recruitment programmes. Whilst your initial examples of biology, zoology and aviation being degrees of sufficient standing to get a job as a quantitative analyst do stand up to scrutiny, your sweeping generalisation above doesn't.

Life sciences and engineering subjects are sufficiently mathematical to warrant an interview for any finance analyst postion; media studies isn't.

Don't forget, when recent graduates are doing the milk rounds and graduate fairs, it's often some crusty old middle-aged pedant like me who's doing the recruiting and sifting the CVs.

Cheers

Whirls

Quant I have done many years in the City and have worked in "front office" roles at many banks on top ranked teams (GS, UBS, ML etc etc) and the fact is on many of the Citys "graduate training schemes" what has been mentioned is true... to get on them you need a top degree from a top uni (social studies won't cut it).

There are of course other ways in but I have spent many years interviewing candidates to join our desks and if you are a fresh faced grad you simply have to have a top degree to get in (prefer a numerical bias).... the competition straight out of uni is intense.

Once you are in and have a few years under your belt then I don't give a hoot where you came from... then I can check you track record/talk to clients to find out what you are like.

Anyway all a bit off topic.... as for BA 038.... "ive worked at my bro`s law firm in the city for 6 weeks and also have many retail experinece so dont be rude".... in light of this comment I suggest going to uni and then work for a few years to help you grow up a bit.... also drop the "text speak" makes you look like an idiot and is not typically well received by those a few years older than yourself.

I might want to spend my money that i earn, but if i want to be a pilot ( which i do ) i know iam not going to be able to. If i have a huge desire to spend the money, then i can just get my dad to look after all my wages, that way he wud prevent me from spending it, but iam not even gonna let it get to that.

I appreiciate its a tough decision, just for me i didnt think i could afford to go to uni, come out with 12k debt sumet like that, then get a job and pay off the debt and save up to be a pilot.

Can i ask whos actually paying for your integrated course?

"wud"... "sumet".... "get my dad to look after my money".... are you for real??

I don't mean to be rude but if people can't write properly and have to ask their dad to look after their money because they aren't responsible enough to do it themselves... how the hell do you expect to get through an interview/selection process??

No wander flight schools survive.... like taking candy from a baby... :oh:

Quant;

Oh dear! Appears I hit a bit close to home with that last statement.

I only started down this track as I didn't think your first statement was true to the reality I’ve seen, wasn't expecting you to throw the toys out of the pram nor was i expecting a slanging match.
If you'd like to have a willy waving competition regarding our comparative city careers please PM me and I’ll be be more than happy to enlighten you.

Whirlygig has it about spot on with her last post. She sounds like someone who has actually done some recruiting in a technical field.

I didnt say i HAVE to ask my dad to look after my wages, iam perfectly capable of looking after them myself. All i said was IF i kept spending my wages, which i know i wont because it makes the whole idea of saving up to be a pilot pointless, i could always ask my dad to look after them.

As for the abbreviations.........iam hardly going to go through a selection process abbreviating all my words.

The danger, is whether you (plural) are actually aware of the number of grammatical and spelling mistakes you make? It's all very well to say that typing on a forum doesn't warrant correct English and if you were completing an application form, you would complete it correctly. Is your knowledge of English good enough to do that?

Making the effort to write/type correctly is a sign of respect towards those who are reading. I have had to backspace a number of times and make corrections as I believe it is important to get things right. I am, in effect, whilst making a point, showing some respect for the other Ppruners who may be reading this. I also want to make sure that the points which I make are intelligible to everyone else. We all make mistakes and everyone makes typos. However, it is easy to spot the difference between a typo and genuine sloppiness.

Sorry but if you do know how to write properly and don't, it is indicative that you have no pride in what you do and no respect for how others percieve you.

If you want professional people on here to take your views seriously, then address those people in a manner befitting of that.

These points are addressed to anyone of any age who doesn't see the importance, not just you Kiev so don't take it personally. :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

I totally understand what your saying, and yeah I agree, from now on I wont type in abbreviations.

Thank You Whirlywig sound advise.....:)

The thread appears to have crept away somewhat from the question the chap originally asked. Should he start now? Well no-one can really say I'm afraid.

My own personal advice would be if you wish to start sooner rather than later, I'd seriously consider going modular, the timing of which is a bit more under your control. However you could wait until things start to look like they are picking up in the economy, then do an integrated course to get you through in a year or so. That way, even taking into account a years lag to do the course you should hit any upswing that might occur. (Although my personal opinion is that we won't see any significant upswing for quite sometime to come yet, however none of us have a crystal ball, that is solely my own personal opinion).

Anyway, good luck whichever way you do it.

If you work in city banking then of course you will have had to do a job specific degree at a university recognised by that sector. Thats no different to going in to medicine or law. However, not everybody has the means, grades or inclination to do this and, without entering in to a debate about universities and courses - in some respects anything is better than nothing.

I know plenty of people who are in good jobs earning good money who have qualifications completely unrelated to their profession.

I think its easy to be elitist about further education. My advice would be do something that will interest you enought to stick to it, is at least somehow likely to help you in the job market (ie not a degree in David Beckham if they still do them!) and try to keep your uni costs down.

When all is said and done I feel fortunate I am not having to make the difficult decisions that some posters are at 18/19/20 years old. Its a difficult tiume for anyone making their way at the moment.

No, the point has been made by several people that many roles in the finance industry can go to trainees with mathematical/scientific/engineering degrees, not business and finance. I did a degree in nuclear physics before I became an accountant and, at the time I joined, the preference was for trainees who didn't have relevant degrees as they were less likely to start with preconceived ideas and had some experience of a different field - useful when auditing British Nuclear Fuels :}

The upshot is, if you are going to do a degree, stick to the traditional maths/science/engineering degrees from one of the old universities rather than an ex-poly (Salford and Hatfield being exceptions :ok:).

Personally, I would also advise modular training at the moment.

Cheers

Whirls

Grass strip basher


All you give out is negative comments -----




--If you actually read the previous posts i have apologised for it -----


"text speak" makes you look like a idiot"

I'm afraid that any pilot, whether qualified or not, needs to learn to accept negative comments and criticism.

What are perceived as negative comments are equally as valid as the positive ones and should be taken with equal measure. As long as comments don't get personal (which is a matter between the posters concerned and the moderators), then take them with the spirit in which they were meant.

Cheers

Whirls