PTC in trouble?
 

Have been hearing a lot of rumours that PTC are having money trouble and problems with students? So taught I might list them..

Flight Safety have finished with them in the states
They have downsized their Instructors in Waterford from 8 to 3
Moving out of Airport and into industrial estate
Students a while back refused to fly or do ground because they wanted more money
All the special cases are sent to Skytrace in Weston

Again not saying any of it is true but theres no smoke without fire:confused:

Looks like PTCs overpriced rubbish course and awful treatment of students is finally catching up with them. Graduates have been advising people to steer clear of the place for a long time now, must be taking a heavy toll on new enrollments, especially in the current climate.

"Cleared to taxi to the junction of the A45 and B424 - watch out for the traffic lights and no stopping at the burger van" ;)

When you finish for the day, put the plane in the lock-up!!

Really? Kyle always told us that GS was free-of-charge for the students of the glittering Airline Program...:E

He always told us we could get as much as we wanted since it was "included" in the 98k + bucks!!! I still wonder why FIs were FORCED to deliver GS when WX was crap in the sunny SE IRL then...:{

Anyway...

Happy landings

DK ;)

So happy to hear that! trained there years ago and got robbed!!!!! since then try'd to warn people away and STILL got sucked in by there fancy wings and bars on there shoulders! I don't even know where to start wit the story's iv heard first hand since then.

It great feeling when I get pulled aside by the management pilots in my airline asking "did you train in that PTC"

Anyway their bridges are burnt wit us and ALL of them said their day would come!


Yeppppeeeeeeeeee :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

reap what you sow
 

Not all doom and gloom.
 

I am a student still currently with PTC and all does not seem such much doom and gloom as posted. Alot of the items you bring up have been discussed openly with students and reasons behind them. They put out numerous communications to students lately. The move to the industrial estate is due to they have out grown the airport facility and the other three smaller premises they are already in, in the industrial estate and are pulling it all together into one big building.

The move from FSI is a good one. The head office in New york was reducing instructors dramatically and there was no flying being done. Also 2/3 of the aircraft were not being maintained, so PTC ended the contract and joined with FIT in Melbourne where we have a brand new facility and glass cockpit aircraft. Also the instructors are way better.

PTC also now does all the VFR training in the US and the CPL is all done in the twin - bonus.

The reduction of instructors in waterford is cause they are now out in Melbourne doing the MEP and CPL in better weather. Now done in 4 weeks!

As for the course costs . I can now see exactly what I am spending- to quote them it is "fully transparent "and I can get a live update.

Don't know about the weston thing.


Other stuff that came out in the last couple of days from PTC is fuel surcharge dropping, no more utility costs.

Use of elite procedural trainer is free. Always should have been.

They also are offering past students a discounted course for those who need to renew IR.

They also did a thing for graduates to help them write CVs and do interview technique. More than any other school offers as far as I know.

I hope they are around for a while longer, well till I finish anyway.

Garden talk
 

Sounds like a plant.

i think so too :=

Beauty.

http://www.hostmoon.net/%7Ebumblebe/...ok%20plant.jpg

haha....ShockStall: try not to make it TOO obvious you work for ptc next time.

PTC
 

The onus is on you Shockstall to prove that you are not PTC management.

If, as we suspect, you are part of PTC then your time would be better spent trying to sort out your house and look after your customers.

I wonder if we will hear from you again.......................

FSA Is like the BEST school in the USA, I keep my ears on the ground when it comes to FSA related anything, but I haven't heard of them reducing the number of instructors. I know of a hiring postponement but reduction in instructors, no. Ive also never heard a single negative thing about their training standards....only their prices.

WOW!! I'm so glad all of this is coming out...

I'm a past student of PTC and all I can say is that since I finished I've been steering any wannabe away. far far away. what a joke of a flight school.

It is very easy to judge from the outside when you have finished or you are not currently in the school.
FSA has been up for sale twice in the last year cause it wasn't making money. The head of marketing left and went to Piper. The centre manager retired and then they brought a muppet in from a sim centre to run the place. Who knew nothing about initial training.

The place went to hell. No new instructors were brought in and the ratio to studnets on our course was 9:1 . Half the planes didn't work either.

Glad to be out in what seems to be a quality provider (FIT) but early days.

Shock Stall
PTC is no worse than any other school. There will always be students and ex students who want something for nothing, usually the ones who can't perform or produce the required standard. I'm sure you will see that on your own course, then you get all the vinyards full of sour grapes.

If the school is working for you then stick at it. Your qualifications and ability are totally your responsibility to achieve NOT the responsibility of the school, instructors, your mum or anyone else. It is not supposed to be a holiday as more than a few students appear to think. You have the access to all the information and help you could need right now so be pro-active and take advantage of it, don't wait to be led. That is not how good Captains behave. When Airlines interview they are not looking at you as an FO they are looking at you as a potential Captain so start practicing that attitude now while you can. Make your own decisions.
The real world of aviation is a lot harder than a few months at PTC and is worse right now.

Yes, there are lots of improvements that PTC and all the other schools could make but it is an expensive and difficult business to run.

Let the people here have the courage to identify themselves and give actual evidence of their complaint then we can find out how they performed at the school. But no of course that won't happen will it because they don't want you to know. Why should anyone believe an anonymous posting by an underachiever?

And one other thing 'Chocktochock' FSI are in trouble they have been trying to get rid of the Vero Beach facility for some time. Get your facts right. As for standard of training I have done three type ratings at Flight Safety and the training leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately and it is not what you would like to think it should be.

oh come on!

just because somebody (or many people) has a bad opinion of an FTO does not automatically mean they are bitter failures. yes im sure in some cases it could well be the truth, but in the minority of situations i think. its becoming an all-too-common theme here, 'oh you have a problem do you? well youre obviously **** so sod off and shut up'

going by your logic then there must be a hell of a lot of underachievers on pprune! which is amazing really considering all the 98% pass rates and 98% job placement etc etc. pretty big 2%...

and before anyone comes on to call me a silly little twerp please note i am neither praising nor criticising PTC or any other FTO, merely making an observation about a flawed and insulting generalisation made by a previous poster.

lol

:hmm:Unless the three type ratings were for the Piper Archer, Arrow, and Seminole....

"PILOTBEAR"
As you were talking about "facts" Doing type ratings at an FSI (Flight Safety International....various locations worldwide) center, is not the same as training training at FSA (Flight safety Academy) Vero Beach campus which is an Ab-Initio-CPL/CFI flight school. FSA its a business like any other. As with the Parent company FSI...or is it Berkshire Hathaway, trying to "get rid of it" as you so factually state is something not unusual in business- I take it you are talking about the failed sale to GTI Group and needless to say in today's current economical climate (The same thing happened at OAT not to long ago), and has nothing to do with training standards. FSA is a big academy lots and lots of planes, equipment and staff....very big etc etc



:rolleyes: I should have known better than to say "I think XXX is the best" in the PPrune Courtroom- sigh.

I think that they are damn good !!!!!!:p

The real problem with PTC and flight safety and PTC seems to be the STUDENTS and their extremely poor behaviour which has caused Flight Safety to terminate the contract (albeit rumour)
See :
Corrupt management - jetcareers

How to exit the industry...
 

There are a lot of bitter bunnies on this thread. It's hard to generalise, but bitching about your FTO is not something I associate with mature people and successful students. In short, losers are loud.

As for Aero222, if it is true that he used to work for PTC, then I take it that he has had enough of the industry? Have you Aero222? Do you think that any FTO, anywhere will take the risk of hiring you after reading what you have posted here?

And yes, I have connections with PTC. And I happen to know that their standards are very high in every area of their business. And I know that the best students seem to have the best experience there.

Bitter rubbish like what has been posted above by whingeofpilots, a797 and 738bus is usually best ignored. Nobody will take it very seriously. Grow up, guys!

But when the bittterness spills over into dangerous and defamatory rubbish like Aero222's it needs to be rebutted.

I've been a lurker on PPRune for awhile and have yet to read a positive post about PTC and I would say that there is rairly smoke without fire but to be honest I think that anyone going for flight training is old enough or at least should be mature enough to make their own decisions.

Therefore I would say that you do your homework and visit these schools, talk to the instructors and students and get an idea of the place before handing over your money. There are plenty of them so you can afford to shop around.

Use a little common sense guys.

i was down for my assessment recently and i can honestly say that i got a good feeling about the place. the staff are very good and the new building is taking shape. i would certainly agree that the course is very expensive, especially as the euro and sterling are so close atm. For that price you would expect to have an mcc included but you dont even get that. Im trying to secure finance for a course but im keeping my options open for now.

€€€
 

Over priced marketing. Their FlyBe scheme is 97000€..no type rated included!! How oh how can you price a modular course at that figure?

No smoke without fire. We hear of the high prices of Oxford,CTC and FTE but to be honest there is not much complaining about them FTO's.

I am currently with PTC in Florida, and can honestly say that the level of training which we are recieving is excellent. Again I am not here to get into a slagging match, as I dont have the time or the energy.
You have to be selected for the FlyBe scheme and pass a FlyBe interview, then if successful you will be accepted on the FlyBe mentored scheme, and you will recieve a combined JOC/MCC and type rating paid for by FlyBe BUT you will be bonded.
The JOC/MCC is done at Simtech which I have been informed is brilliant from people who have done the course there. If anyone has any questions regarding PTC I will try to outline the pro's and con's of the course here from an honest stand point. Cheers all :ok:

Chock to Chock - Flight Safety did not terminate the contract. The standard of training of PPL was and is very poor, I know because I had have direct contact with it. Allegedly it went wrong when the new centre managers attitude caused experienced instructors to depart leaving the hour builders.....
Issues are; PPL licence holders that can't trim, level off, hold altitude, never done a no-flap landing. No idea how to VFR navigate and speed control non-existent. If that is quality C to C, than your sim check will be fun for someone. The PPL course has to be good because it is leading on to the CPL/IR. You cannot mop up bad techniques later on.
And yes FSI is a big organisation with a lot of planes, most of them on the ground. The ramp at Melbourne is empty most of the day with everything flying. As for your other silly comments:ugh:
Aero222 - I would be careful with your 'facts'. Someone may just feel it necessary to post the facts about you.:E
So all you budding accountants (you certainly aren't pilots); where are your budget figures for running an ATPL course?
The association with Florida Institute of Aviation Technology is a good one. FIT are on the whole a very professional organisation with new facilities and aircraft. They do not rely on an out of date reputation as FSI do. The quality control is mostly very good (as in any organisation).
How many times have FSI organised a 17 aircraft student fly out for the weekend to New Orleans? You are lucky to get 30 miles out from Vero Beach. Will be a regular event.
There are rules of behaviour which have to be enforced or not. There is no point in half measures because no-one knows where the line is then. If you bend it for one person then someone else is entitled to the same. If you are not mature enough to see that you need to be at home with mummy.
The last laugh has to be that in these difficult times employers are more choosy and will see through your inadequacies at interview and you won't have a job anyway:D

guys, these issues are typical for most FTOs these days. I started my training in Cranfield. Tried 2 schools there. Both were horrible. Moved to Bournemouth, it wasn't perfect but school was much better than Cranfield :mad:holes. I did it modular route.

PTC
 

I did some of my training in Flight safety and I am now in Florida institue with PTC Florida. Don't know much about why they changed but this place is much better. very good instructors, great airplanes, and there is no messing.

Response from Mike Edgeworth CEO - Pilot Training College.
 

1. PTC terminated its Contract with Flight Safety Academy on 31st December 2009. The reason for this termination was simply that the Contract was due for renewal by PTC on this date. PTC received a more favorable offer to its tender for renewal from Florida Institute of Technology. Bear in mind that this was the most valuable tender offered to the GA training market in recent years consisting of training requirements for over 200 students per annum. PTC and FSI had a very good and mutually beneficial relationship for two years. When renewing Contracts all tendering organizations will carry out in-depth analyses and adopt measurement criteria that will ensure the best outcome. PTC has succeeded in achieving this objective which is beneficial for all concerned including our students.

Pilot Training College Ireland and Pilot Training College Florida are Certified Flight training Schools under JAR-FCL. They both undergo rigorous auditing through internal approved quality systems and through regular external audits carried out by independent auditors and by The Irish Aviation Authority. Should any of the standards required under JAR-FCL be found to be inadequate or less that published requirements the schools would not be permitted to maintain their Certifications.

The Management and staff of both Colleges are experiences professionals with establishes track records in their respective areas of expertise gained not only in aviation but also in many other disciplines. I have total confidence in the Management and Staff of both Colleges and I have no hesitation in stating that they are among the most dedicated and professional in the industry.

The quality systems of the Colleges will from time to time identify areas that may require change and / or improvement. This is one of the purposes of having a Quality system. If standards are not been met in a particular area remedial action is taken to rectify this situation. There are times when remedial action is not effective and on occasions as a result we have found it necessary to replace staff members. While the vast majority of our students are focused and hardworking, occasionally and in the minority of cases we may need to advise students that they are better not to continue their training or indeed we may need to terminate their training. Staff and student replacement or disciplinary measures are necessary on occasions in order to protect our standards and to ensure that we continuously provide the best possible services and facilities for the majority who are deserving of our support.

Changes in personnel can often lead to some form of reprisal and unfortunately PPrune is an ideal forum for such reprisal. Because it is an anonymous forum people who feel that they have a grievance will flock to such a forum since it affords them the ability to make false claims that they feel they will not be held accountable for. Thankfully, due to pending legislation in Europe, this practice is being brought under control as unanimous forums like PPrune will be required to disclose details of contributors where cases of deformation and slander are been pursued through the courts.

I expect that the vast majority of professionals in the aviation industry will continue to support our Colleges both in Ireland and in the USA. We are proud of what we have achieved and of our association with both Waterford Institute of Technology and Florida Tech. University in offering our Aviation degree programs, our graduates are proud of the qualifications they receive in our Colleges, we are proud of our anagement and Staff. Management and Staff are justifyably proud of the job they do and of the job satisfaction they derive from being part of our success story. Our airline customers continue to support our efforts to be the best at what we do and on April 4th next we will have the opportunity collectively to celebrate our success at the Irish Annual Aviation Ball which is being held in Faithlegg Country Club, Waterford.







Chief Executive
Pilot Training College.

How come there are a number of FTO's in this part of the world (say PAT, Multiflight, Bristol, Airways to name but a few) that have consistently high pass rates yet everyone raves about them and you hardly hear a bad word spoken. Yet your establishment keeps on hitting the headlines. I don't know call me an old cynic.......

Incidentally Mike can you confirm that you paid all of the creditors in Bournemouth when you closed up shop a few years ago? And any truth to the rumour that you took rental monies from a certain groundschool provider but failed to pass it onto the leaseholder leaving the former high and dry nor paid other FTO's for time clocked up on their aircraft?

Aero22, as you brought the subject up; what about the gear up landing at Oxford recently where the warning horn was cancelled and forgotten?:eek:
Every school will have an incident sooner or later, it is the nature of the business.:E

well, you can't make wild claims about deals with airlines which draw in students with false hopes and get away with it forever. When you see things like that, you know there will be other issues in a school.

PTC - Further Clarification from Mike Edgeworth - CEO
 

There is no connection at all between PTC Ireland and PTC Bournmouth other that that I did my CRI and IRI training there. I met Tony Kember in PTC Bournmouth at that time some time before PTC Ireland was founded by me. Tony subsequently was appointed by me as Head of Training of PTC Ireland. Your question clearly indicates that you were not aware that there is no connection at all between PTC Ireland or myself and PTC Bournmouth. There never has been any connection between these companies other that a similar name.

Mike Edgeworth
CEO
Pilot Training College Ireland

tropical fridge
which wild claims are those then? If someone doesn't get a job it is down to them! not the school, you can only do so much baby minding and hand holding. Where on earth do you people get this stuff?
Astonishing... keep it up. It is almost as funny a Fox News:ok:

Something that needs to be borne in mind here is when an airline or employer asks for a reference or report on a student the behaviour , dedication, interaction with authority and other student colleages during the whole course is taken into account. :eek: Not just whether they have passed the ME/IR test which, lets face it is not rocket science if you have used your hours building wisely and studied your aircraft :E

ok, so I pay £50000 of my hardly earned cash to school. they set me up with an hour builder :} and it is my responsibility to learn everything on my own.
You only get things like this in aviation schools these days. I tried 2 schools in cranfield, my first instructor used to be a postman, changed the school and my instructor there used to work as a security in tesco shops. no surprise they lacked knowledge and didn't have a clue about teaching.

went to bournemouth, instructor was an ex-airline crew and a proper pilot. Learned more in four flights with him than in 30 hours i spent with the losers above. :cool:

what you are saying is exactly the problem with FSI at Vero beach.
However, it is still your responsibility to study, learn drills, checklists and emergencies. You have to perform! no-one else. My point, from a great deal of experience is that students generally do not realise the importance of learning the above before getting in the aircraft, it then costs them more money. All the advice and guidance is provided, but not taken up until well into the course when it results in repeated lessons. Crazy behaviour:eek:

I have sat in the sidelines for a while now reading some of the stuff that people post up here and to be honest most of it actually makes me laugh. If i can i would like to give my two pence worth and share my opinion. As i am still a student with ptc I feel it is only right to set some of you guys straight
Yes i understand some people have grievances and thats only natural but to post it on here says alot about the type of people they are. I was in fsi towards the end of the ptc contract so i know what it was like, since the new manager took over there the place went to pot young instructors who just wanted to build their hours and not really concerned with actual good training the fact there were near more planes grounded everyday than in the air, the fact they had to sell four / five planes to try and pay for maintainence so you can see how the move fit had to be a possitive one.
I also feel it my duty to defend the staff and instructors with ptc, yes there are some weak links but doesn't every company. The instructors there are good people and try and help you out in everyway in and out of the classroom. They push you and try and get you to a standard and it shows my the success rate of the cpl/meir exams and the rest behind the scenes try and keep it going as best they can. As i said before this is only my oppinion and yes i have had issues with them as well but you know they are trying and changing everyday and thats why you have to say fair enough you screwed some things up but you also done alot of things right, they have a good thing going and it shows by the ammount of new people coming in every week for assesment and the new building they have moved into is top. So thats it i have said my piece i'm glad i chose ptc because training aside i have met some great people students and staff and i look forward to working with them in the future.

Thank You!
 

Thanks flyguy80!
I have decided to go to PTC in Florida at the end of the year and I am delighted to hear such a good review of them. I'm under no illusions that anywhere is completely perfect but the place sounds like they are doing lots for students and that the training is second to none. Also, some sun and a nearby beach adds to the attraction!! Can't wait!!

Whilst I truely believe that Waterford PTC are doing their best to iron out any problems that students may have and that is something I applaud them for, there is one thing I think we can all agree on and that's the price of their course is daylight robbery.

At the end of the day no matter what way you wan't to sugar coat it, they offer a modular course not an intergrated one. And it costs the guts of 100,000 to do it when you can get a fully integrated option with two long established and highly reputable companies for the same price and in one case actually cheaper with current exchange rates.

So before I were to ever consider PTC and I'm not saying that I am, they would have to bring their prices done by a hell of a lot. In the current market conditions the prices you guys are charging for what is essentially a modular course are outrageous.

Anyone consider it without looking at the intergrated option available for the same price is nuts.

just a little to add
 

I did full time ATPL training at Oxford for their 7 month course.
The course was genuinely good, and I recently passed my 14 th exam

While I was there, I met three Irish students who were clients of PTC.
These people had paid up the ridiculous sum this company charges for their training, then, due to the complete lack of quality groundschool they ended up forking out £5k to Oxford to get some decent groundschool.

I would run a mile!! I visited the school appox 2 years ago, and it was this visit that made me go the modular route!!
Great marketing spiel tho!