Oxford
 

Hey every one,

I am hopefully off to Oxford next year after years of graft!!
I just wanted to know if anyone has a bad word to say about it. Obviously, I know that it is an expensive school but i have have friends that have been there and they have no flaws about the place.

Best wishes and good luck to every one.

Scott

Standby to be bombarded.
Everyone has a view, and they are all different.

Big, Busy, Expensive.

Scott5988

I have got through the skills assessment and have a provisional start for March 2008. As Lurking123 points out, it is very expensive. You'll be looking at around £80K ir the training, accommodation and food.

I am looking at doing it in the US, with conversion partnered with PTC (Ireland). The cost of the course is in the region of £51K, which includes the FAA course, the JAA conversion course, accommodation and food. Saving me enough money if I want to go to Ryanair (for the type rating. Still alot cheaper than going to OAA.

On the other hand i know someone on the course there, and he's enjoying it immensely. But it all depends on how deep your pockets are.

Look at some other schools to see the savings you can make!

All the best

Ad

There will doubtless be many acerbic responses relating to the costs (which are hard to deny!). But you will also see several people without any direct experience of the school coming out with all kinds of rubbish.

There won't be many people (other than modular students) who will have direct experience of more than one FTO / training route.

From my own personal experience I can say that the Ground School instruction was largely excellent with a couple of minor exceptions. Saying that - at least 95% if not 100% of OAA students will make use of Bristol GS in preparation for the exams.

My experience of the flight training in Goodyear was excellent although there were certainly admin and maintenance issues which were generally well handled.

Having completed my CPL 1.5 weeks early (and all of our course finishing on time as far as I know) I do not start flight training in the UK for a couple of weeks. The general impression from course colleagues ahead of us is that the UK-based instructors are of excellent standard and the maintenance is generally much better than Goodyear.

OAA
 

Most people who know OAA or have been there generally praise it. Those who do not know OAA and have not been there generally knock it. You must weigh up all the odds and decide for yourself which is the best route to take. Whatever you do, becoming a pilot is not cheap.:eek:

From OAA site:

08 to date - RYR 39%, BA 13.6%

07 - RYR 22%, BA 16.6%

06 - RYR 3%, BA 16.3%

05 - RYR 1.1%, 19.2%

So plenty do still go to BA, just more to RYR at the moment, so don't put any BA ambitions on hold just yet. Ryanair have taken a large number of pilots form all areas over the past few years, not just from OAA. This is inevitable as RYR have expanded so fast. You would expect this to drop off if their expansion slows, but also everyone's recruitment might slow. Oh to be able to see into the future.

OAA has never just been a feeder for BA. OAA pilots have always gone to a variety of employers. Like any career, the key is getting that first job.

Best of luck for the future:ok:

Skintman

oaa
 

dont care what airline i fly for as long i am flying for a living. money is not an issue as i have saved a large amount of money.

Thanks for all comments and keep them commin.

Cheers

Scott

:ok:

billy buds and hollingworthp are both correct!

although i can't comment on the flight training side of it, the ground school instructors are generally very good to absolutely excellent with a couple of Swift exceptions..Waddon earth these two exceptions are still doing there is a mystery to me. :O:O

Not sure about most people who go praising and most who don't knocking. I went and I most certainly wouldn't have done if I'd have known how overstretched the whole operation is, and oxcel is AWFUL, thats why everyone at OAA uses bristol feedback.

badadj, very poor form to name and shame instructors you weren't happy with. :=

Oxford
 

Glad to see you haven't changed a day Bajadj;)

Ground school at Oxford was excellent and fantastic. Note, you will have to put the work in and YES you will use Bristol to prepare for the exams. Thats just the way it works.

Cant comment on the flying side of things as I decided not to do my flying with Oxford for the following reasons:

- Very big organization and from what I have been told by ex class mates a little disorganised (but hey they did get their CPL completed in a reasonable period of time). Its important to note that I completed my hours for an IR (55 hours) in the same time period as they have done their CPL's (15 hours)
- COST!!!!! I am a modular student. Waypoint at Oxford is ridiculously expensive - £33K if you take into account accommodation in Goodyear and all the other hidden costs. My IR and CPL are costing me £15K. I still cant understand how Oxford can send their students to Goodyear (which is all round cheaper for them) and still be so ridiculously expensive. In my case almost 110% more expensive. Oh, and before I get the old argument about the quality of instructors I should point out my tuition to date has been better than amazing. I fly 3-4 hours a day (sim and aircraft). I enjoy the luxury of a 3-1 instructor/student ratio and my pre and post briefs are better than expected.
- Being a modular student at Oxford means nothing. Its a little like being allowed to wear the uniform but hey you just ain't part of the club. Following this route means Oxford will do nothing for you when you graduate, i.e. help looking for a job. Thats reserved for their integrated students. However I have also been speaking with a good few recent graduates from Oxford who have come to learn that the Oxford name just isn't what it used to be. I now understand that doors don't open if you graduated from Oxford as an integrated student. So, before putting the 80K down don't listen to the hype and think very carefully about what you want to do.

Whatever you do consider all your options, make the right choice for you and then hang on and enjoy the ride.

Dont give me s*it mate. i have been working between 10-14 hour days 7 days a week as an electrician for the last 3 years, i no it might seem long but i have save 20k solo, managed to do my ppl, sacraficed things to save, sold my car and motocross bike to raise money, put off holidays ect. So, as most peolple would probably agree, you on the wrong network if you want to start putting people down, and my parents have no input to this as they are not financialy able to support me, think before you write next time as you dont have a clue what goes on in peoples lives.

Scott,

If you have that cash saved up (well done btw, I couldn;t do it!) you would be better off going to modular, you could potentially end up with a very low amount of debt compared to those leaving the oxford scheme and have the same ratings.

re : modular
 

Hey predukI was going to go moudular. As there is a unlimited credit crunch going on at the moment, if i go the modular route i think i will find it harder to find a job. On the other hand Oxford gives you a higher chance of getting a job. Cost-wise it would be better though. Im still a bit unsure. I do have a back up carrer, im a fully qualified electrician, so if the aviation employment dried up i could divert to that to keep paying off loans ect.Best wishes scott

Intergrated vs modular, once again!
 

If you actually read what in have written:As there is a unlimited credit crunch going on at the moment, if i go the modular route i think i will find it harder to find a job." I wasnt slagin the modular route. The only reason why i think the intergrated is better is Oxford have high recrutment ratese.g my mate from guensey is 19 and he flys the 737-400 for BA.He used Oxford, intergrated. I no this is almost a one off but it is still intergrated OAA for you.P.s sorry about lay out of text, probs with keyboard!

Scott I'm sorry but that is just marketing non-sense. Yes it sometimes takes modular pilots longer to get the first job but I would rather it take longer than sitting with an 80K loan on my tail (or 60k in your case :P)

I've got friends from modular schools who fly with BMI, Flybe, Loganair, Eastern Airways, Globespan and Ryanair who all done the modular course with schools that don't have the glamours name like Oxford.

Preduk
 

I just dont know what to do now??? lol

You're 19. You've got plenty of time.

My personal opinion, if you don't have glamourous A levels and the rest of it, I wouldn't bother with an integrated course at this time.

No point in being locked into a flying training programme that might dump you into a bad time for hiring. Why bother shelling out an additional £20K for a type rating when you don't [i[have[/i] to? (Reading between the lines with the Oxford guys going to Ryanair)

Yes I can imagine how keen you're are to get amongst it, try out for some cadetships that are available, it shouldn't cost much (if any thing at all) and that'll give you a pretty good feel about how you'll get on. Better still, contact GAPAN and do their assessment. This way you're still moving forward but now you have a better idea of your strengths and weaknesses.

Oxford isn't the only school with contacts. All schools have contacts, it's a matter how you perform and get on with it. eg Bristol Flying Centre has produced some exceptional pilots who are now TRIs etc but they don't splash the advertising with that fact.

Many of us are waiting to see how this year pans out fuel price wise and general pax market wise to see what's going to happen recruitment wise.
If 2008 finishes ok, then it'll probably be about 2 or so years before hiring begins (in ernest) again for low houred guys. If 2008 doesn't finish well, economically and fuel price wise, it'll be 4 years or so.

If things aren't good, you'll need to be prepared to go back to your old job (and being a sparky means you should be able to) or think outside the jet FO job and head to Africa, Caribbean and or instruct. What you don't want is an evil debt to service.

I have absolutely no ties with any school or training organisation. I already have a cool job flying a nice jet.

Good luck, the view's great. :ok:

It is hard, don't get me wrong I almost fell for the FTE trap until I sat down and worked out the figures.

I know my local school are currently in talks with Flybe and Thomson over their crews training there and they are no where near as advertised as much as Oxford.

Think about it, look at the long term investment visit other schools in your area and speak to people who have been to the schools. I'm not saying Oxford is bad, just a lot of money for something other schools do as well.

can anyone tell me more about the assessment ?

Oxford Aviation UK = very, very expensive, and very, very good

Oxford Aviation US = very, very expensive, and very , very sh!t

Scott

if you want to go integrated at Oxford then go and do it...the endless modular v integrated debate has started to degenerate your thread into ususal pprune rubbish.
Everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks they know best...the only one that matters is yours, and i sense you have your heart set on OATS.

I went to OATS in 1997 and self funded an integrated course; my reasons were

1. BA were sending their cadets there at the time so trining should be good
2. better facilities at the time than anywhere else i visited
3. not the cheapest by anymeans but you could pay in installments (5k per month)
4. didn't fancy going modular as it took too long and in my opinion it seemed airlines preferred integrated at the time

as it turned out i though they were excellent, didn't use any outside help for groundschool and passed first time. I think they may have got a lot busier these days so things may have changed a bit but i can only say as i found.

BTw i got a job with BA on the 757/767 after 3 weeks. I also got offered a job with 2 other airlines based SOLELY on my Oxford recommendation and results ( British World airlines (since gone bust!) and GO). Also i just remembered that Aer Lingus phoned me to come to an interview after 5 weeks but i had alread started with BA. This was 10 years ago though and the job market has changed a lot sonce then.

Regarding the the type of course one chooses I wouldn't like to say but as far as quality of trainning goes getting the right instructor is more important than choosing the right flight school and that can be pot luck.

Choosing the right training provider can make a huge difference to your job prospects though and at one time (it may still be the case) preference was give to Oxford graduates for no obvious reasons when smaller outfits like PAT were getting some of the best first time pass rates (did someone say back handers or old boys network ? I couldn't possibly comment).

When a certain flight school folded, Oxford took on some of the flying instructors, many of the ex students of this flight school though would probably agree two of the best instructors went to PAT although now I believe one of them has gone on to pastures new and the other prefers to spend more time on his allotment although if large amounts of green stuff (not cabbages) are waved under his nose he is tempted once more out of retirement.

Going in past events, imo if you are prepared to pay the premium and and go with Oxford and if you time it right you stand a greater chance of walking into a job quite soon after you finish up. At the moment though the trick is probably going to be to try and time it right.

I was a modular student throughtBCFT, Airways Flight training in Exeter (who were excellent) and did the MCC at Oxford. I have a very high opinion of Oxford however, dont believe all the hype that its the school that gets you the job. I believe with the market in the right condition they can help if you get good grades but I am strongly believe that if you put the effort in before starting the course you can make contacts that can often really help when you finally get the blue book. I was a modular student and thanks to writing to airlines and from the time I started the PPL, some 4 years before completion of the ATPLf, my first job was on the 320 for a UK charter company.

From what I have experienced the school is very good and can help get CV's to tops of piles but I also feel that you make your own luck, so start writing!!

CABUS:ok:

Best of luck buddy

Some people in the US seem to have been unlucky with the scheduling, with our course now beginning to overtake the course ahead. There was an issue with students cancelling their own flights left right and centre, and the current backlog could be the consequence of this.

The flight cancelling got so bad that any cancellation now has to be countersigned by an instructor, which I think is fairly reasonable. However, it looks as though we're going to have potential problems as two courses simultaneously hit the Senecas, and all Warrior students have been called to a meeting tomorrow which is, I suspect, going to put some of us on a bit of an enforced holiday. (This is the rumour, we haven't been told what it's about yet).

I'm hoping it's not me, as I'm only 2 weeks away from finishing the Warrior flying and don't want to take any breaks at the moment after finally getting the holds nailed.

Reliability hasn't really been an issue on the Warrior fleet for me (not had a lesson cancelled due to a tech aircraft so far), and through flying six days a week I'm running nearly a month ahead of schedule.

Dave.

PS - Is cancelling one or two l's? Firefox says one, Google says two.

Scott,

I see your from Jersey...been there a couple of times, lovely place! If I were you i'd be getting in about Blue Islands and Air Aurigny. Being a local lad and all that, get your face known. You've got your ppl already, shows commitment to your future career. Have a chat with the Chief Pilots there, tell them what you want to do. Ask what theyre looking for in terms of training background etc. You wouldnt be the first 'local lad' snapped up by an airline/operator thats right on the doorstep. I've seen it now time and time again....jobs for the boys and all that. If you want OAA and Ryanair at 100k, then go for it. I think you'll have much more fun however spending a bit less money, getting a fantastic hands on flying job on a TP flying around a beautiful part of the country.....then head for the jet jobs. Just my opinion though. Your so young, and have got loads of time ahead. Be wise, be sensible, but do whats right for you. ps. I know plenty ex trades guys now flying, you'll do just fine. You've got a solid background to fall on if needs be.

If you feel the BA interview is worth £25 000, go integrated.

If not go modular. You will save £20k - 30k and still more than likely end up at Ryanair. (Which I feel is a good starting airline.)

Sorry, to make clear, the quality of training in the US is very good, ie, the instructors methods and teaching abilities are without fault (Brad B, you are a genius!). The groundschool portion of OAA's groundschool is also very good. However the overall operation/scheduling/aircraft condition in the US is pretty dire.
Rest assured the skills learned will put you in good stead for the rest of your career, but OAA must stop resting on their laurels as far as the US operation is concerned, or the likes of the Netjets 'incident' will happen with other airlines also.

I am clearly out of the loop here - what was the NetJets 'incident'?

one l or two
 

David,

I think it might depend if you are a Brit (two - hence "cancelling") or a Yank (one - "canceling").

But could be wrong.

Overflare

Having done the OAA integrated course - I would broadly agree with most of what has been said. However anyone who thinks that the training in AZ is excellent is either nuts or was very lucky. Generally the standard of instruction there was poor (although it did improve post CPL skills test) in my experience. The instructors were badly controlled (probably due to the director having been sacked without replacement) , some turning up when they feel like it, or just not turning up at all. Many taught their own flavour of aviation rather than the OAA syllabus. Scheduling and maintenance is hit and miss. Communication with the students is dire. The aircraft (and there can be no debate on this) are decrepit. One PA28 in particular looks like it was the subject of an arson attack. The PA34s generally had an availability of 2 servicable aircraft out of 7. Say what you like about "that's aviation" but the fact is that this is a very expensive course and I think its unreasonable to have to use a fleet of aircraft which could easily feature on scrapheap challenge. They all have different avionic fits, having mostly been sourced on the cheap from different sources.
That said, groundschool in the UK is excellent. The IR training in the UK is also very good although the instructors feel that they are having to spend the precious few hours re-teaching what should have been taught in the US. The MCC/JOT is top line.
I now wish I had gone elsewhere or gone modular. I probably sound like a bitter old tw*t, but I did manage to get a job and I suppose they must have done something right, but the overall experience didn't live up to 50% of the expectation...

Low hour Employment Stats
 

Just thought this might be an interesting fact!

Statistics prove that 80% of all low hours pilots employed by the airlines have completed their training via the modular route.

Ba is an exception to this!

Did you know 75% of statistics are made up?:rolleyes:

Have you actually got a source for that?

Pjlot - what's your source? It sounds like a load of rubbish.... Standing by to be proved wrong.

I only know of the 80% reference made by FLYER: (flyer learn to fly guide '06)

"The modular majority: Perhaps 80 percent of those training for the ATPL do so via the modular route, spreading their training over a period of time and/or between training organisations. Four modular students share their experiences with FLYER..."

"Perhaps" a load of old boll-cks? :}

60% of the time.....it works everytime

Oh Ron Burgundy, we salute thee.

I doubt that there is a database anywhere that tracks training route and employment stats for the entire UK or all of JAR land and is also accessible to the likes of Flyer. Perhaps the CAA have such data for the UK, but as far as I know, they don't even publish pass rates for exam and flight test data they do have. I suspect what they publish are statistics on how many people train modular and integrated, but that doesn't mean the employment rate matches that split. Even if 80% is accurate, it would be important to know what type of jobs are involved, how long it took to get them, how much self-improver work experience at various low wage jobs was involved, and how many were SSTRs or pay-to-fly types, etc.

Finally, even if the statistic is accurate and otherwise meaningful, it says nothing about how many from either route don't get work. Given that there are four integrated approved schools and about 90 approved for modular, I would be more comfortable having the failure stats than the success stats, even if I accepted the 80 percent figure.

To modify what RickO says about 75% of statistics being made up, I would add the other 25% need a lot of caveats to be properly deployed for meaningful risk management.