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-   -   Growing evidence that the downturn is upon us.... (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/311832-growing-evidence-downturn-upon-us.html)

Grass strip basher 25th Jun 2008 11:24

WWW I agree with you on many things but the average US house price has not fallen 23% in 3 months!

... and on the mortgage approval data are comparing like with like... they are down but not as much as you say... it is about 56% I believe (still Sh*t thought) :ok:

Bombs Away 25th Jun 2008 11:44

WWW,

After reading your posts you sound like you know what you are talking about, so could you offer some advice. I've been quietly saving for the past few years and could get the ATPL license without going into any debt. As I am 30 should I go ahead and do it now or hold off. I'm not getting any younger. As the aviation market is cyclical, I would imagine it will bounce back eventually and would it be better to have the qualifications ready for when (or if :sad:) that happens?

Wee Weasley Welshman 25th Jun 2008 12:11

Sorry Grass Strip Basher but they have.

22.8% in three month in the US. Do you want me to post a link or would you prefer to pick up a copy of todays Times and read the piece?

Bombs. No rush - plenty of people don't enter the industry until they are 40 odd. The key is timing. Now is a poor time. Perhaps you could do a PPL and IMC rating and build some hours for a couple of years and then look at it again.

WWW

PosClimb 25th Jun 2008 13:44

WWW, what's your take an oil prices as they relate to the future of aviation?

I think oil prices are a much larger threat to aviation in the long and short term than economic cycles, because oil prices will remain high and likely climb even higher.

nich-av 25th Jun 2008 16:06


I think oil prices are a much larger threat to aviation in the long and short term than economic cycles, because oil prices will remain high and likely climb even higher.
Not true.
If worldwide demand starts decreasing because of oil prices steady at 140$, OPEC will start quoting oil in other currencies. Believe me, that's gonna crash oil prices.

But seen the recent developments in Washington, unless we have an other terror attack, everything should start top get back to normal in 2009.

At least, I hope, and I am optimistic.

Grass strip basher 25th Jun 2008 18:35

With respect WWW I think you will find your average Times journo was not particularly good at maths at school... go to the source not some journo's interpretation... S&P | Indices > Alternative Indices - S&P/Case-Shiller® Home Price Indices - Home Price Values


;)

MarcoFF 26th Jun 2008 12:50

OPEC:s chairman and Algeria's energyminister Chakib Khelil said today that oil price could get 150-170$ per barrel - already in this summer. He claims that dollars weak course is the reason to expensive oil.

Today at Nymex exchange oil barrels was allmost 135$.

Damn.

SAB 26th Jun 2008 12:56

You forgot to quote the last sentence of the article though. :ugh:

That he also expected a drop in the prize of oil by winther to equalize it.


SWB

heli_port 26th Jun 2008 20:01

Crude oil at a fresh high of $140
 

The price of oil has surged to a fresh high passing the $140 a barrel level.


BBC NEWS | Business | Crude oil at a fresh high of $140

hollingworthp 26th Jun 2008 21:37

It's not all bad ...
 
From the Guardian:


Business jets boom as rich float above oil crisis

Link

doctordoom 26th Jun 2008 22:11

The dollar is weak but we still are paying big money for fuel. The Euro is strong and so is Stirling so why the hell are we being robbed at the pumps in Europe. Some body is making a killing, I think the rest of the world is paying to get the U.S out of its resession and puting everybody else into one.

clear prop!!! 26th Jun 2008 23:14

Robbed at pumps…that’s just the tip of the iceberg,

Fact is that the UK’s oil story is one of the best kept secrets ever ..for very good political reasons!

Did you know that we produce more oil from the North Sea than the output from Kuwait?..and, we are 97% self sufficient (apart from refinery capacity)

Why then do we not all drive Hummers and wear a Rolex? (apart from the fact that no pilot worth his salt would be seen dead with them!)

Because, we have totally pissed our oil revenues up against the wall!

Whilst Gordon Brown publicly wrings his hands at what increased oil prices are doing for his people and country, he laughing up his sleeve at the additional $40bn income that he is conning us out of in tax revenues as a result of increased oil prices which, is saving his arse!...JUST!!
Our near neighbours in Norway have built up a ‘sovereign wealth fund’ from oil revenues which equate to around $55,000 for every man woman and child, and, they have a budget SURPLUS of $38 billion, an oil windfall just short of that of Kuwait. And the UK? …Zilch…Nothing…Not a Jot!! We have pissed every penny up against the wall on failed education and NHS schemes etc etc.

The big problem for the UK will be if Scotland gets itself independence! If it does,..the rest of the UK is BUST!...big time.

We are in the **** at the moment, but without the additional oil revenues this country is BANKRUPT!

hollingworthp 26th Jun 2008 23:32

Gotta love our country :ok:

nich-av 27th Jun 2008 00:34


With respect WWW I think you will find your average Times journo was not particularly good at maths at school... go to the source not some journo's interpretation... S&P | Indices > Alternative Indices - S&P/Case-Shiller® Home Price Indices - Home Price Values
Good reading, thanks for posting that Basher.

Your links shows that in April 2008, 33% of States analysed saw an increase in housing prices, and that 100% of the States showing an increase in price had a continuous price decrease during at least the 6 months preceding April 2008.

As said before, for those who understand what this is all about, the housing crisis was nothing but a tool used to increase oil prices.

Some OPEC members today reacted madly to a Republican saying on Monday, the day after the Saudi's announced an increase in oil production, that this increase are not sufficient to cope with actual increase in demand.
Lybia is threatening to decrease output due to oversupply on the market.
Venezuela did not attend the meeting on Sunday because they don't see any reason to increase output.
The Saudi's are doing the US a favor by increasing oil production and bringing the tensions between OPEC memebers to an all-time high but if oil goes above 150$ , it'll be game-over because other OPEC members will disapprove strongly if Saudi's increase production further. I see it more as "the last chance" the Saudi's are giving to a longt ime customer.


So let's read what this newspaper says:
!!!Keep in mind that the newspaper Middle East times is a subsidiary of a conservative US media network.

This article says it all - in one word: propaganda!

I read alot of articles every day but this is what caught my eye:


There is much that Republican and Democratic party leaders alike in the United States could do about this, but they are not.
Now really?
Then he goes on:



We would also recommend to Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., the Democrats' front-runner, that he refrains from his hardline rhetoric bashing the major oil companies and vowing to crack down on energy speculators. Those "speculators" are largely rational investors who reflect the hard realities of soaring global hunger for oil and insufficient available production and refining capabilities.

We also note that prominent Democrats have been bending over backwards to deny that there is a critical shortage of oil refining capacity in the United States, or they have argued it isn't such a big problem. But it is a big problem. Republicans and Democrats alike have been complacently negligent about it for more than three decades.

If Obama wants to start a really serious and constructive dialog with the major U.S. oil companies about what they could do to ease the current crisis, getting some serious action going on expanding U.S. domestic refining capacity would be a good place to start. (Personal note: why should he? he doesn't need lobbyist to be elected!!)
In the past, we have taken the position that soaring energy prices will invariably help Obama rather than McCain at the ballot box this November. (personal note: not so sure about that! A crisis/fear will only benefit McCain) But McCain has certainly been fighting his corner hard in the election campaigning so far.

See people, this is what it's all about! It's an election year, that's what it's all about.

This article is supposed to talk about "how demonizing the Saudi's will not help oil prices", in reality it is a stunt by a politically inspired newspaper putting pressure on a presidential candidate.
But since when does a newspaper have any right to recommend a presidential candidate to do anything???

Demonizing the Saudis Will Not Help Cut Oil Prices - Middle East Times


JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia -- The U.S. energy secretary said Saturday that insufficient oil production, not financial speculation, was driving soaring crude prices.
Energy secretary to saudi arabia: Insufficient oil production is behind rise in prices :: Beacon News :: News

What gives me hope in all this mess?
The American youth.

heli_port 27th Jun 2008 06:13

dam you Gordon liar brown dam you :mad:


(always remember to put liar between GB's first and last name and remember that the next time we have a general election :D)

ReallyAnnoyed 27th Jun 2008 08:14

Clear Prop, the last figure I saw for the Norwegian Oil Fund was 7,000,000 NOK pr citizen which equates to about 700,000 GBP. However, I think that figure was a forecast based on their total oil reserve :ok: They stole our Danish oil due to some terrible negotiation by the Danish officials, but Denmark is still a net exporter of oil too.

Re-Heat 27th Jun 2008 09:35


Because, we have totally pissed our oil revenues up against the wall!
Oh, too true. If only those fools in politics knew how to run a business, let alone a country, we might be in a far better position.

Even better is Brown's stupidity is levying tax at 50% against North Sea oil firms. This reduces their profits and leaves them less willing to invest in new development projects in the North Sea that could yield far more oil over the long-term.

As it is, they will not invest in depleted fields as the economic models do not permit sufficient returns - largely due to the tax rate.

When you realise that not even the majority of oil in any one field is extracted before it currently becomes uneconomic to extract more and the field is abandoned, it becomes clear what economic stupidity it is to tax the companies at any rate higher than the UK corporate marginal rate applicable to other companies.

Prudence Brown? More like stupidity Brown. And I don't have much good to say for the other lot who were in for 16 years before that either.

Re-Heat 27th Jun 2008 09:40

NOK 1.939 trillion / 4,752,735 people = NOK 407,975,618 per head = £40,703,687 per person.

Grass strip basher 27th Jun 2008 09:58

Does anyone have any idea how much money the UK government raises each year by taxing north sea oil?? Would be interested to know what that looks like on a a per head of population basis....

Re-Heat 27th Jun 2008 10:16

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/corpora...table11_11.pdf


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