FTO Uniforms
 

Doing a survey on uniforms at flight schools. Would like to know the following:
Trouser colour
Shirt Colour
Jumper type and colour
Coat type and colour
Tie colour
Epalette type and bars

Mainly interested in Oxford, Cabair, Jerez, Atlantic

OAT
 

Trouser colour: Navy
Shirt Colour: White long + short sleeve (with OAT motif)
Jumper type and colour: Both Navy
Coat type and colour: Navy - not sure how you would describe the type
Tie colour: Navy (sensing a theme here?) with a red plane and OAT motif

Epaulette type and bars: Someone else may correct me on this as I have only been there 6-7 weeks, but in ground school you get a single silver bar, when you go to Arizona you get two gold bars and when you get back you get gold wings. I think the modular students only have one gold bar.

hollingworthp is correct. However, you retain the single silver bar whilst completing all the foundation training in the USA. Once you have completed First Officer Fundamentals, then you get your 2 gold bars and wings.

Regards,

JetsetJ

Ahh - fair enough. All seems so far away right now ;)

You're the customer, you spend 50 or 60 grand with them. Why should they be able to specify what you wear? Since you pay, you should be able to specify what THEY wear.

Yes, it's terribly annoying because it's just not enough to cover up the private bits. :E

Finally a conclusive answer to the ever raging "Modular vs Integrated: which is better?" :oh:

Uniforms......pwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhh........:mad:

Slops and shorts........:ok:

One is of the constitution that one has to earn the bars.....couple of near death experiences should do it and atleast 1000 hours.....;):{:{:{:{

if you pass the IR first time (integrated only) you can buy a gold jockstrap and spurs from the afe shop across the road

:E

Guys - Why the obsession with uniforms? - Are you actually forced to wear them? :bored:

If you dont like a uniform dont join OAT. Its to get you in the airline mood. I notice that most airlines seem to wear them uniforms, or are you going to say "sorry BA,BMI etc I cant work for you as I dont like a uniform". Probably not.

Unfortunately the case with someone I knew, who unbelievably made it through to starting a type rating. More interested in taking photographs of themself in the aeroplane and fantasising about wearing the uniform rather than the hard reality of passing the conversion course. You can guess what the final outcome was.

And thus commences the tunnel vision to "I shall be adorning the right hand seat of an airbus with my 250hrs" (or whatever it is nowadays)

As already stated, airlines insist upon a uniform for valid reasons - company culture (identity), chain of command (seniority) etc etc. I know some FTO's ask for a plain crew shirt and tie...hmm...a little over the top perhaps...but epaulettes? COME ON! You're students for god's sake, not 737 crews! Apart from instilling an air of elitism which will serve little purpose in todays industry where CRM is key, its marketing pure and simple. Look great in the uniform, but if your flying skills suck, they will still suck!

Disgraceful discrimination. So £££ = bars? Oh dear. :(

Marketing is sales. Sex sells. Everyone in the sales & marketing industry plays to this almost without thinking.

Uniforms are sexy. Got to OAT, wear a uniform for a year and start getting laid even before climbing into the RHS (well, thats assuming you can clear up the adolescent acne sufficiently...)

That will be your cunning market plan then :D.

Suggest you read this thread about epaulettes. Uniform at an FTO is ever so slightly worrying, IMHO. If you can't use your brain until you have a uniform on, what does that say about you?

IRRenewal - You have successfully turned this thread around! Well done son! :}

Boo to FTO uniforms!

I second .Aero - nice one IRRenewal...:ok:

For spending 50-60 grand with them, you should get free beer in the evening, complimentary table dancers, and complimentary swedish masseuses...

Now THAT would definitely give the "airline mood" and prepare you for life down route (less the free bit unfortunately!) ;)

I think this shows one thing, when you attend at oxford for a look round you are told that there is no bias toward Int over Mod students , but when you actually look at it they wear different epaulettes so they can be identified from a thousand yards , now why on earth would that be hmmmmmmm

Most uniforms I have seen revert to cheap pilot shirts, an itchy 100% pure wool "NATO" jumper complete with pads and eppy holders and generic suit trousers.

You can get all the above and the same for much cheaper from a SECURITY GUARD supplier.

Be wary of people mistaking for that, the fuzz or a fireman in the supermarket. :uhoh:

I don't intend to wear uniform until I am being paid for my services.

The idea of a uniform is to instil some semblance of corporate identity and a professional manner into students at FTOs.

So, if you want to slop around looking like something from the student union bar, you'll have to do that elsewhere. So, dry your eyes and accept it.

Incidentally, the loops on pilot shirts or 'NATO' pullovers are 'epaulettes', the silver/gold rings are on 'rank slides' which fit over the epaulettes.

I personally would prefer to wear a uniform. Not because I think I look good in it, just for the simple reason that I dont have to think what to wear in a morning, I just get out of bed and put the same clothes on everyday (well clean ones)

At last, some sense.

'in ground school you get a single silver bar, when you go to Arizona you get two gold bars and when you get back you get gold wings. I think the modular students only have one gold bar.'
What do you get after MCC? An Oxford Prefect badge and tie?
Don’t get me wrong, when I looked around the place I thought that Oxford was a very professional set up. However, I decided it wasn’t for me both in terms of environment and value for money.
As for the fancy dress, I'm very relieved my training school does not inflict that upon us. I don’t think I could stand that unwarranted hierarchal mentality amongst fellow students. In my opinion stripes should be worn when they actually mean something, as well as when a command structure is actually important and required, i.e. - employed pilots of varying rank.
I can see the positive values associated with uniform, such as corporate identity and discipline applying to the very young students (ie just out of school ), but certainly not the majority of people in flight training who often have held responsible jobs and achieved much, before embarking upon flight training.
Nice to see Oxford actively segregating their slightly less valued modular customers from the integrated guys. I’d be gutted to end up a second class citizen within a training institution which was at the top end of the price list (in terms of modular school choices) - Still, money talks, thats life!

All those that are undertaking your training – good luck – where ever you’re doing it.

Jon.

I've heard that at 1100 every day Oxford students get given milk, making sure they develop healthy strong bones and that once they go to Arizona they're given Clearasil and lessons in SexEd.

Could this be true? :cool:

Our course does require a uniform and the 'rank slide' you get is the company logo once you have passed your PPL. Junior instructors have 3 bars and senior ones 4.

Sensible compromise? Makes it easy to identify everyone and as we don't actually earn any 'bars' until we are with an airline then nobody has the nerve to say that we have ideas above our station.

I love the anti-OAT banter on this whole forum, haven't decided how much of it is jealousy yet.

Great Idea......when I did my CPL in the US, modular, shock and horror, the school insisted that we wore uniforms with epalettes, now I did accept this, but you did feel a bit of a t:mad::mad:t everytime you went anywhere in uniform off the airport.
The other issue was this, in the lovely Florida summer, when it is nice and hot there is nothing like a pair of black trousers in a small plane, you and your instructor sure do honk after an hour or two, thank god there was a pool at the dig's.
Conversely when I returned to the UK and did my IR, still in the summer, shorts and tee shirts were in order and we were a lot cooler.
I do think this idea of uniform is insane, however if you don't want to wear one don't go to that particular school! I had no problems with my school, very good and professional, just wish they did not bother too much about the uniform.
Tony

No sh*t sherlocks! We all know that uniforms are to "instil some semblance of corporate identity and a professional manner into students at FTOs " - We accept that - Nobody is going to refuse training at a suitabily qualified FTO based purely on their mandatory requirement of wearing a uniform! We pay taxes, doesnt mean we enjoy doing so. :ugh:

Beagle: You do not need a uniform to encourage a sense of professionalism and corporate identity - complete twoddle. You are referring to dressing smartly, which is a world away from wearing a uniform.

Uniforms have their roots in the military, obviously. Airline pillots wear uniforms because the public wish to feel safe in the fact that their vessel is being flown/sailed/operated in a highly professional, almost military style of precision and competency...quite rightly too. A uniform is a visual endorsement of that perception. Personally, I think its its correct for professional airline pilots to wear uniforms.

However, turning to OAT. OAT is not the military (although it could be given the average age of its conscripts). Nor is it an airline. People who see OAT students walking around think they look like space cadets, not trainee airline pilots. The whole rank & stripes thing simply adds insult to injury. Add to that and the fact, if true, that modular students wear one bar and integrated students wear two (or whatever) and you cannot escape from concluding that instilling professionalism is not the primary driver for wearing uniforms at OAT.

Rant complete.

CTC Wings
 

Navy trousers
White shirt
CTC logoed tie
CTC epaulettes awarded once you complete the foundation - i.e. once you start the wings course (this may have changed since going integrated - i don't know the structure of the foundation now - this used to be an NZ PPL, but I'm not sure that's necessary now).
Dark shoes
Navy flying jacket and v-neck jumper also provided.
All provided by CTC.
Hope this helps the originator who just wanted to find out what uniforms are worn! :)

2 stripes for going to Arizona with zero flight time?! I am in the right seat of a 75 and i only got 2 bars! What a load of sh*te!
For training, whatever makes you feel comfortable should be the order of the day.

I just thought of something - dont know if it's a valid point - Would you say it might actually be safer to wear workmen overalls when flying light general aviation aircraft rather than a full FTO uniforms with belts, buttons, epalette holders, name badges, security/ID lanyards around your neck because you would probably get all of those caught should you need to make a quick evac out of small crammy metal door?

Just a thought. :bored:

When I flew air taxi on a PA31, we wore overalls for exactly that reason! (95% of our contracts were cargo)

I fail to see the need to wear uniform to instill a sense of identity and discipline into an FTO - utter b*llocks. You're taught to conform and be a well disciplined individual at school not an FTO who are taking 60K off you. OAT is not Eaton for god's sakes! Hmm..but then maybe it is....

Save the uniforms for the professional boys who are required to wear them and have earned them. If you want to wear something because you have the intense desire to belong and you lack individuality, then a smart polo shirt with a small logo would suffice wouldn't it?

I think the wearing of overalls is actually much more appropriate in a light aircraft than FTO uniforms. The RAF at least have the sense to cover their uniforms while flying.

I have an idea. How about OAT introduce velcro attached squadron badges on their uniforms, so if one of their aircraft crashes behind enemy lines...say at CabAir Biggin Hill for example, the crew can rip off their badges double quick so no-one would be any the wiser as to the identity of the crew.......;)

That's a clever and cunning plan there Bandit 650...

Men of intelligence should consider the OAT aptitude test...never know you might be in with a chance...just think of those bars! (not the type with women in them!!)

:ok:

Plain and simply on the subject of uniforms i think the rule should be clear:

If your ambition is to fly privately then you can turn up and fly in whatever you like.

If your ambition is to fly professionally then i think you need to act and dress professionally from the start. Maybe slightly different for modular ppl/hour building but from CPL upwards the absolute minimum should be pilot shirt, trousers and tie.

For the professional pilot this standard is always going to be echoed throughout their career. So i think it's good mental practice to get in to the discipline of preparing ( shine shoes, press shirt and slacks) and wearing a uniform of some description.

As for eppaullettes - ummm..... you have to laugh when you see someone with four bars on climbing out of a cessna 152? - on a private flight.

However within a professional integrated environment - ie. OAT, CABAIR, JEREZ etc there is nothing wrong with this. I presume their role is to help candidates become familiar with seniority and authority gradients. I think its a good idea and probably would lead to more well rounded candidate that is used to sitting next to someone wearing the all austere coveted four bars.

On a slightly more bemused note the amount of airline pilots i've seen who don't shine their shoes, cut their hair, do up their jacket, or tuck their shirt in is just appaling!! If you are reading this and you are one of those people - please do something about it - remember you're suppose to inspire people with confidence in commercial aviation and you as a pilot.

Oh and while i'm here - is it just me or do airline pilot uniforms seem to be getting shabbier? The more lo-cost the airlines seems to be echoed in the uniforms as well (single breasted plastic button jackets, plastic hats and nylon/polyester trousers that short your electrics are really just too cheap)

I once remember a Captain whose airline had cut costs by making uniforms single breasted, green tie, plastic buttons etc... was standing waiting for his family at JFK when a man and his wife came up and said, and i quote,

"Excuse me - can you help us with our bags, we need them taking to american departures"

i rest my case.

In my book, and many others i'm sure, uniforms should be as follows:

Double breasted Naval Style Button Jacket (you know the smart ones with the vertical buttons made out of a nice heavy fabric (non cheap).

Here's a good example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...7_trav_150.jpg

Non-Branded or Subtly Branded Tie
Slacks
Black Polished Shoes
White Pilot Shirt

On the color schemes, - well theres only two worth noting:

White shirt / Black slacks,jacket and tie/ Gold or Silver bars & insignia
or
White shirt / Navy slacks,jacket and tie/ Silver bars & insignia

Sorry no offence intended to anyone at all but i just feel that pilots should look like pilots. Nowadays people look at pilots and their impression is "glorified bus driver" - what's changed from the days when people used to ask for a pilots autograph and look up to pilots because they epitomized a successful, fulfilling and prosperous career?...


Just my 2 cents...

shirt and trousers and a shiny pair of shoes are all that is required. Especially on test.

give me strength:ugh::ugh:

isn't it interesting that there are only actually 3 or 4 posts that actually give the guy the answer he was looking for? yet again, this post has been hijacked so that people can, as far as i can see, argue about modular vs integrated, however thinly veiled it is.

i sense deja vu...for the 14,000th time.