PPRuNe Forums - CPL Cross-Country Qualifying Flight

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)

- Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies-14/)

- - CPL Cross-Country Qualifying Flight (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/237371-cpl-cross-country-qualifying-flight.html)

I've checked section 1, however I couldn’t see a "definition" of a cross country flight (Even though LASORS definitely says 1.125).

I've solved the issue now, but if anyone manages to find the actual definition let me know.

Cheers

MP

A'right Merc

I spoke to the CAA about this when I did my 300nm (540km) X-C. I had the same gripe as you, & they were very helpful in clearing up the situation. The term " In one day" was clearly defined by them as being a period of 24hrs, over one calender day. Therefore, you've got from 0000hrs to 0000hrs to complete the flight.

As you are aware this must include 2 separate land away at different airports/aerodromes.

Hope this helps

HPC :ok: :}

Quote:

D 1.2 (D) JAR-FCL CPL(A) MODULAR COURSE FLYING TRAINING/EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS

“20 hours cross country flight time as Pilot-in-command, including, a VFR cross-country flight of at least 540km (300nm) in the course of which full-stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodromes of departure shall be made.”

There is no mention of a time period in this and there is no mention of returning to the original departure airport. Therefore a week long trip could count or even a one way flight with two stops would count.

Quote:

Smith, as noted elsewhere in this thread, there IS a time limitation as shown by conversations with the CAA. The CAA also issued a memo which was sent to the FTOs regarding this. It must be completed within a 24 hour period.

LASORS is NOT the definitive document or legislation regarding regulations. (unlike the FARs) They come from the ANO etc etc.

Meanwhile back in the real world, it's how it's logged that counts. I flew with a friend on his 300 mile cross country. It was over a leisurely three days starting in EIDW and took in Edinburgh, Blackpool and the IOM. Note Powdermonkey it wasn't exactly in Irish airspace. He logged it as happening on the same day. He's now a Captain in Aer Lingus, perhaps I should inform them and the IAA that he's just a fake. I just happen to think his flight gained him more and better experience than my own 300 mile simple exercise which followed the letter of the law and proved nothing more than that I can file a flight plan and keep a course on a nice day.

In fact I often wonder just how many 'Parker pen' qualifying cross countries there are out there?

The rule is rather archaic and was obviously put in place to avoid the scenario of pilots qualifying for their commercial in spite of barely leaving the vicinity of their home airfield.

But bureaucrats love their rules and all their pettifogging details. Gawd save us from them all.

Quote:

there IS a time limitation as shown by CONVERSATIONS with the CAA.

I'd prefer something to be written in black and white than overhearing a conversation, as you say there are memo's sent out by the CAA but in my opinion an official publication (ie LASORS) should be more definitive than a memo.

During what time frame does the QXC have to be done?

Last year I flew a number of flights that would qualify, e.g. Swansea - Sleap - Redhill - Swansea or Swansea - Northampton - Redhill - Southend - Swansea and the other week I flew Swansea - Redhill - Old Sarum - Redhill - Swansea (6.1 hours that one)

These would all be qualifying flights, however, as I will not be undertaking the actual CPL course until early next year would they still be valid?

I suppose the question asks whether private flights, not flown as a supervised part of a CPL course, count?

2close

This is quite interesting. If you plan to do the FAA commercial as well as the JAR it is worth bearing in mind that the FAA require you to do the trip SOLO and that you must land at a point at least 250nm (in a straight line) from your starting point which in practice will give a trip of about 550-600 miles as an out and return.

When I did mine, I managed a trip which would meet both the JAR and FAA requirements just in case. (it works out cheaper anyway than doing two trips).The differences are subtle but they are substantial.
It does means doing the whole trip on your own and that is more challenging.

I have read LASORS and am a little confused with the requirement, Does the trip have to be...

A-B-C or A-B-C-A ?

LASORS say's "two landings away from your departure airfield" but does this mean you have to return to your departure airfield or not :confused:

Thanx for your help

Vilo

define cross country

hello, im going for my CFI tomorrow, not that that is really relevant but it would be nice to know for the checkride anyway, but what i don't know and can't find out in the FARs anywhere is what qualifies as cross country (FAA here) now for the purpose of checkrides it's 50 miles plus to qualify for cross country, but an examiner i did a checkride with once read out of the FAR that it is from one airport to another, but i spoke to him the other day and he said no that was 6 years ago, but he read this out 6 months ago, nob! anyway so can anybody clear this up, cos it would be nice if it's airport to airpot as that gives me another 50 hours, only reply if you really know what you're talking about, no offence to the guessers, cheers

I found this in Section A of LASORS:

Quote:

'Cross-country flight' means any flight during the course
of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from
the aerodrome of departure.

LASORS is for rules surrounding UK-issued licences and not the US. ;)

Oh well, tommyh7's attempts to put off guessers is likely to fail if I don't even bother to read the question :O

soz!

XC in USA is a flight from point A to B (with landing), where straight line distance from A to B is 50NM +

HB

Can you quote an authoritative source on that, HB? ;) ;)

I became curious and found this:

Quote:

(3) Cross-country time means—

(i) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(3)(ii) through (b)(3)(vi) of this section, time acquired during flight—

(A) Conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate;

(B) Conducted in an aircraft;

(C) That includes a landing at a point other than the point of departure; and

(D) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(ii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements (except for a rotorcraft category rating), for a private pilot certificate (except for a powered parachute category rating), a commercial pilot certificate, or an instrument rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges (except in a rotorcraft) under §61.101 (c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iii) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate (except for powered parachute privileges), time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(iv) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for a sport pilot certificate with powered parachute privileges or a private pilot certificate with a powered parachute category rating, time acquired during a flight conducted in an appropriate aircraft that—

(A) Includes a point of landing at least a straight line distance of more than 15 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(B) Involves, as applicable, the use of dead reckoning; pilotage; electronic navigation aids; radio aids; or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(v) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for any pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument-helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft, under §61.101(c), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems to navigate to the landing point.

(vi) For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for an airline transport pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating), time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—

(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;

(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems.

From here:http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.1&idno=14

Check ride requirements in other FARs like 61.101 for PPL

well cheers for those who didnt really know but had a stab anyway, and thankyou (seriously) high wing drifter, thats what i got read to me by an examiner who now claims that that is obselete, where did you get this info? what FAR is it? and is it current?

Tommy, if you don't want guesses or help from unqualified contributors, then take your question to the FAA - the only unquestionable authority on the matter.

Scroggs