Seems to me that a lot of people are fundamentally misguided in their expectations frankly. I read time and time again "they did nothing for me...I was on my own" well, wake up and smell the coffee. Welcome to the real world.

If you go into these courses with naive, high expectations about what someone else is going to do for you...well, guess what, chances are you going to end up very dissappointed and airing your sentiments as such on PPRuNE...

I have my job thanks and it was dam hard earnt no thanks to Oxford, thats my point, when youve been through the whole post-app thing and time goes by and you get zero support from OAT, you arent best pleased especially from what they lead you to believe when you sign up.

Im not saying that I expect them to present me with a job with BA upon completion but when your signing up and they say "We'll do our utmost to get you a job when you finish", you expect "something" from them.

Its easy when you havent gone through getting a fATPL to see FTOs with rosey tinted goggles, when you get to the graduated side of the fence and time passes, you'll get to understand what I mean. As for smelling the coffee, I smell it alot more than you do. Having been through the course and out the other end, Im alot more in the real world than you.

WHOOPEYDOO man congrats on finding a job off your own back! :p but in your opinion did it help having OAT stamped on your CV?

Thanks, that is a very good question, I suppose in all honesty it cant have done any harm, that said a modular OAT stamp I think would have gone as far as an APP stamp.

In my opinion you pay extra for the APP to get OATs help and guidance whereas when you dont get it you might as well have saved 20k and still have their modular stamp on your cv.

One thing I would say though is having the APP stamp + first series IR etc etc on the CV, still resulted in loads of airlines simply ignoring your cv alltogether......

Personal Experience
 

Just a few lines about what i experienced at OAT.

OAT got me from A-Z via the modular route, in hindsight i would probably go there again since the training was top notch, training standards were high, tolerances were restrictive which undoubtedly made me a better pilot, staff were helpful, i met a few interesting albeit entertaining people and made a lot of friends.

Regarding career help i didnt get any(i was modular), other than CV help and occasional correspondence with advice and updates from N.M.(A true gentleman), having said that i know a few APP guys who got recommended to the majors even though they had a 2nd series pass and you wouldnt want to spend a minute stuck in a ''tin can'' with them, While other APP students who had exceptional results are still waiting.
Highlighting the fact that there still is a hint of nepotism when it comes to the recommendations board.

OAT did include My recent employment in their web page statistics, even though i got it through my sheer determination, however i have no problem with that since they do have a disclaimer in full view.

I doubt that having OAT on my CV helped in me securing a job however going there surely instilled in me some basic principles, techniques and airmanship which i found really helpfull in subsequent interviews, checkrides and day to day flying.

As i said OAT was and probably still is a great school and it is a business at the end of the day, your outcome depends on what your attitude is like and how you deal with people and situations.

As i said OAT was and probably still is a great school and it is a business at the end of the day, your outcome depends on what your attitude is like and how you deal with people and situations

That says it all

Hi Whoopeydoo,

I understand if you don’t want to answer this, but I’m just curious to know (politely asking) if you have any "non aviation related" work experience, such as management, engineering, marketing, team leader skills, eg eg..... Or any academic qualifications??

I am aware that this is a personal Q. so completely understand if choose not to answer.

The reason why I’m asking is I want to know if this may have helped you - or possibly hindered you??

I have also been informed from reliable sources that if you don’t get 85% or over in your ground school OAT won’t recommend you - is here any truth in this??

Thanks

Tom

Tom,
yeah I had previous professional work experience not in aviation, "team work" - this has got to help for CRM. I also have a degree. Having both of these things can only help you. You have experienced working situations/scenarios which tells them more about you than if you were fresh out of school, straight into training school and then looking for the job with zero "life skills" that said perhaps some airlines want such people. It depends on the views of the recruiters at the particular airline.

85% is indeed the require average to get OAT to put you forward, you would think that good flying grades would counter this requirement but it does not.

Hope that helps
W.D.

Its quite interesting to read someone rip apart my post!! :ugh:
However, I still stand by what i say!
Oh and i do know what im talking about unlike some of what you have put
e.g 85% is not the benchmark - its what an airline stipulates as its requirements - a close friend has below 85% and has been recommended as its within the airlines criteria! His flying grades were fantastic but his groundschool wasn't great. Touche i guess!!

I did write a very lengthy reply but then i thought - is this really worth replying to someone with such a bad attitude?! Your the last person i have to explain myself to or my knowledge to!

As you quoted me as saying - "Fact of the matter is - IF you work hard and get the results - your readily employable with many airlines!"
It still stands 100% - the difference being a persons attitude which is something you don't get a mark for and can hinder many good pilots in getting a job!

I would certainly suggest that your attitude is the reason OAT did not recommend you and i can't say i blame them.

Anyway, on a lighter note im always happy to hear to low hours grads finding employment so well done

adj

Question re: OAT CPL/IR/MCC
 

Can anyone who has done the full-time CPL/MEIR package at OAT recently give me an idea of how many hours per day flying is done? I've heard its one trip a day ... that correct???

Can't speak for OAT myself but 1 flight per day would be the norm for the UK. When you consider that you will need to get into the school, have a cuppa, get the weather, read the notams, see which aircraft you have (or don't have as the case may be) check the tech logs, then brief for an hour, do the walk around/pre flight checks, then fly for say 1-2 hours, then do the tech logs, have a cuppa, have a debrief, maybe talk about tomorrows flight then get ready to back seat your mate who will more than likely be doing the same thing....

I can only remember a couple of times doing 2 flights in the one day and that was to catch up on the CPL after we lost some time due to poor weather. I was absolutely knackered afterwards. Professional training costs a LOT of money so be careful not to overdo things as redoing exercises gets very expensive. Enjoy.

OAT vs. Other schools
 

As im nearing the end of my first year of AS I have been looking into my options. I will be applying at schools the day I leave college :} but after looking into the options im still stuck for choice.

After looking at OAT and there brochures and searching this forum I still cannot find the answer... OAT, Do you get what you pay for? I realise the cost is much higher than other schools, so do you get better training, or more likely to land a job, or should i just go for the cheapest option. I dont mind taking a loan for the expensive OAT as long as i get the best training etc.

I have also looked into FTE, total costs nearing £65k, whereas OAT is nearly £75-80k. Im really stuck here, and dont really get any help with the decision at home. So is it best to go for cheapest, or best (if OAT is better training etc)

I would really appreciate any help on this, and before i get redirected to stickies and other threads and told to search, i already have but still couldnt find anything to help. :O ;)

Regards,
Gary Woodrow

I doubt anyone will be able to give an unbiased opinion on such a subject. There will be ardent oxford supporters and naysayers. The only useful advice i can offer is to find the schools which most appeal to you, and visit them. You will learn nothing about how you feel for a school until you visit it.

Oxford, from what I saw while there had fantastic facilities and was very professional, but since I haven't studied there i can't give you any idea of training level although I'm certain it's very good.

Again I honestly suggest visiting the major schools (IMO Cabair, CTC, FTE, OAT, AFT but there are many more good ones) and making your mind up on how you feel about the school. They could have the greatest instructors in the world but if you aren't happy with the surroundings chances are you won't do as well as you could.

All the best.

thanks for the advice, is it possible to visit the schools now? Or can you only visit on the selection days?

Gary

just phone them and arrange a visit, it is normally not a problem as its just the marketing department that show you around. good luck in your choice. :rolleyes:

Hi Gary,

I would recommend OATS because of the following:
A) The best instructors. (In terms of experience, quality of instruction and subject specialists.)
B) The facilities. (The flight ops is designed like an airline ops department. There is free internet cafe. There is free access to 14 simulators, free of charge, 24hrs a day.)
C) There is ''onsite'' CAA exam centre and resident CAA flight examiners who conduct CPL/me and IR tests. (You do not have to travel for your ground exams as all is held in-house.)
D) The OATS on your CV bit. (I am still sceptical about this, although I am open to persuasion.)
E) The MCC & JOT is best available in the league of FTOs. (Again experienced instructors here come to mind. Ex training Captains and serving Capts.)

I would NOT recommend OATS for the following:
F) The administration. (This FTO has the worst administration that I have ever come across. However, once you are in training there is no question about the quality of training.)
G) The price. (If you need extra hours on Seneca, you need to budget for £426 an hour! that is OTT.)
About me:
I was Modular student and I did all my training with OATS. I saved around 20k and I am going to be using this 20k to spend on Type rating very soon.

All the best.
M

thanks for the advice, i will give them a call on monday and see if i can arrange a visit. :)

Also, anyone know the details on the loan they help you with from HSBC? They say the 'full' amount of the course but does that include the money you will need for accomadation and such, or just the £61k for the course itself? I would prefer to take £80k on loan :}

The maximum loan you will get for the Oxford course through their HSBC deal is £50k secured. And yes, you will need approx £80k in total!

So the question is where do you get the other £30k!?!

damn, i really dont have a clue. I dont think i could get that much :bored:. And i have nothing to secure it to :ugh:

*EDIT* i just checked in the brochure and website and i quote "Usable to cover all training related fees, including living expenses".

So does this not mean i would be able to take 80k as is does say 'all'. :\

The hsbc loan is to a maximum of £50000. This is due to being able to afford re-payments by earning a standard first officers wage. If you are on one of the airline schemes they raise this to £60000. Before you say things like 'I would prefer to take the 80k on-loan' think about it for a second- if you took the full ten years to repay the loan you would end up paying hsbc around £40000 in interest.
It may seem easy now when all you can think about is flying a shiny aeroplane but when the novelty wears off, you want to have a family, car, house etc it will hit you in the face that you can't have any of these until you have that huge debt under control.

hmm, so i have to come up with 20k then. :ugh: lol any ideas :bored:. I may have to go modular which i really dont want to do.

If i was to go modular, there is a school near me called ravenair, i was quoted £30-35k for the modular course but i thought its a bit cheap, do you think this will include grounds exams and such?

FTE has a deal with BBVA bank in london that allows for full course fees (£66k including 3 meals a day, all accomodation and license issue fees) but this too must also be secured on a parents house for example. If you take the full amount you will be having to pay around £1000 a month back when you graduate.

You will also need a bit for living costs (beer, phone calls, travel etc) and I think the bank can cater for this too. I would check em out, very good school.

Another option for you should be CTC. I think they allow the full loan unsecured and you are pretty much gaurenteed a job. However, I think that only around 2% of applicants get accepted.

garywoodrow.

If it has only just now occured to you that you need to find an extra £20-30k on top of the loan to attend Oxford, I would suggest that you haven't done your research thoroughly. Re-read the threads on Oxford, FTE, CTC and the modular schools. Visit as many as you can and ask questions; about the flying, the ground school, the cost.

OAT Website
 

Has anybody been able to get the OAT website to work today? I was trying to get on the forum, but all I get is the 'page cannot be displayed' page.

Pass rates at Oxford
 

Does anybody know where i can find the pass rates for the ATPL theory exams at OAT? I have been told that they are published every year, but i can't seem to find them. Any help would be great.

i wouldnt worry about it - the pass rates are very high. i was there until recently and all except the odd person who didnt do sufficient work passed all the exams with high marks (they cant learn it for you at the end of the day!) the instructors are first rate, you shouldnt have any worries.

Unfortunately pass rates don't really give a very good indication of the quality of teaching which I believe is the most relevant part of the training. Any tom dick or harry can do nothing through the ground school and then sign up to the Bristol website and get a 90% plus average by rote learning the answers.

I agree with potkettleblack. It certainly shows up after groundschool when the real flying starts - the dubious statements made by some students show a lack of basic understanding in many subjects.

On the whole, the quality of ground teaching at OAT is good and there are some great characters instructing there :) In general the teaching goes beyond the bare minimum needed to pass the exams and if you pay attention and put in a bit of work yourself you'll gain a good understanding in all subjects.

V1R

ok if you where in my situation what would you do? :

money is not an issue so leave it out

gcses: 2A* 5A 2B
alevels: law, buissness studies, graphics, DT

pretty much been into flying ever since i was a little kid, etc etc
been in the raf at skl for 2 years when i was 15 and 16 and did some flying at cranwell for like 2 hours worth.

basically i want to get into the right hand seat of a shiny jet asap.

personally i prefer the integrated enviorment btw, which school would you go to?

Without wishing to be rude - would you really leave it up to anonymous posters on a forum to make such an important decision for you?

We are all different and there is not one FTO that is perfect for everyone.

Take some time out to visit the larger ones and then make an informed decision - surely this makes sense?

If money is not an issue, and you want to get into the jet asap.

Go to a modular school where you can finish faster than integrated, then go an buy a type rating or two, that should get you the job.

Actually, I think integrated is the way to go for you. Simply write a big check and someone else will make all the decisions and manage every step of the training for you, which is not unlike what you are asking others to do for you here concerning when, where and how to do your training. You will have to make many more decisions if you go modular and that seems to be a bit much for you!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but hopefully my response will help you see how your post comes across. Anyone who plans to spend £50K to £75K training for a career should get out from behind the computer screen and visit half a dozen schools. Anyone who would risk so much money without attending to due diligence is not showing the proper attitude towards risk assessment and management that is needful to be an effective airline pilot.

hi everyone,
I'm basically wondering how many students pass through Oxford in a typical year? does anyone know this or have a rough idea? I've checked the Oxford website and had a quick search on the forums here but can't seem to find out.
The reason I want to know is to give some scope to Oxfords much promoted employment figures (205 gradutes employed this year! wow!).

Thanks in advance,
S.

Don't get too hung up with the stats. Oxford get u a licence, you get the job. The Oxford ticket carries a lot of weight and gives u the best chance of getting a job but its u that has to have the right qualities to be employed by an airline. If you do well at Oxford and pass most things 1st time, get a good grade average, become a good pilot AND you'll fit into an airline environment then you should get a job.

Think whether u have the qualities, drive, and determination to succeed at a demanding course and in a competitive market.

The numbers you seek are on the OAT forum in the Careers and Employment section. I don't want to post a link to a competing forum since I'm not sure how the moderators here feel about that, but the thread was only started a few days ago, so it should match the date/time stamp of this post within a week or so.

I am looking at starting the APPFO integrated next year and I was wondering if anyone who already went through the training could provide thoughts on this. My current employer asked me whether it would be possible for me to keep doing a little bit of work remotely during training.

it would be online, with a flexible commitment of probably one or two hours a week, very flexibly scheduled and with flexible deadlines too. certainly it would help me pay back the loan quicker, but i would not want it to affect my performance during training. I want to give them an answer now to help them plan in advance.

Thanks a lot!

You may struggle during groundschool where you should be aiming for at least 3 hours work a night and at the weekend you will be going back through that weeks work and potentially brushing up on the older stuff. Added to this is the - now compulsory - foundation degree in Air Transport Management which can only add to your workload.

For a more definitive answer you will probably be better off phoning OAT and talking to one of the training advisers.

HTH

Phil.

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could give me an reasonably non-biased answer..

Where does the extra £30k go to compared to Stapleford etc? I understand that the 40 hour 737 sim stuff would swallow up a bit but where does the rest go to?

And please no "its a waste your money" posts.

Cheers :)

it goes to the instructors, facilities, food and accomodation and many other things you have to pay for when you do the integrated program with oxford, OAT is a business so they will find out every single way they can get money off you while you are training, although, you do get what you pay for otherwise they would'nt be in business for very long