IR.. Tishoo tishoo we all fall down!
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IR.. Tishoo tishoo we all fall down!
The syndrome:
Swinging along merrily on the modular IR course. All going well. Until two flights before the Test. And then, suddenly, a one-eyed octopus on dope could fly better than I do.
Instructor looks gloomy... Off we go for more hours. All goes fine. No probs. Until two flights before the Test... Then: Wheel out the octopus.
Why does this happen? How have other people coped?
I think my instructor's negative "I don't know what to suggest.. It could take one more hour, it could take twenty..." attitude doesn't help. I could really do with something more zappy and positive, being unconfident to start with . And of course there's always the money worry, which he will keep emphasising. But I can't blame him for any of it.
It's turning into a huge barrier. Sometimes I even think of quitting. But I've sold everything and got the MER and the CPL.. And it was all looking well OK. Why am I running into this wall now?
Anyone out there got any stories, advice, inspiration, poetry, vitamin pills? Or should I just apply to CephalapodAir and have done with it?
Cait
Swinging along merrily on the modular IR course. All going well. Until two flights before the Test. And then, suddenly, a one-eyed octopus on dope could fly better than I do.
Instructor looks gloomy... Off we go for more hours. All goes fine. No probs. Until two flights before the Test... Then: Wheel out the octopus.
Why does this happen? How have other people coped?
I think my instructor's negative "I don't know what to suggest.. It could take one more hour, it could take twenty..." attitude doesn't help. I could really do with something more zappy and positive, being unconfident to start with . And of course there's always the money worry, which he will keep emphasising. But I can't blame him for any of it.
It's turning into a huge barrier. Sometimes I even think of quitting. But I've sold everything and got the MER and the CPL.. And it was all looking well OK. Why am I running into this wall now?
Anyone out there got any stories, advice, inspiration, poetry, vitamin pills? Or should I just apply to CephalapodAir and have done with it?
Cait
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IR Blues
Hi
IR blues are a common problem with trainees. If otherwise your performance is satisfactory- then I don't see the reason for a problem at the last stage -except if its due to the exam stress.
I would suggest that you prepare your flight mentally the previous day (while you are relaxing- maybe even with eyes shut) by going over the flight bit by bit including any possible unforeseen situations which may occur, so that while in the air you apply your mind based on your previous days preparation.
This generally works -especially if you force yourself to concentrate during the preparation without letting the mind wander.
Hope this helps
IR blues are a common problem with trainees. If otherwise your performance is satisfactory- then I don't see the reason for a problem at the last stage -except if its due to the exam stress.
I would suggest that you prepare your flight mentally the previous day (while you are relaxing- maybe even with eyes shut) by going over the flight bit by bit including any possible unforeseen situations which may occur, so that while in the air you apply your mind based on your previous days preparation.
This generally works -especially if you force yourself to concentrate during the preparation without letting the mind wander.
Hope this helps
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pre 170/IRT stage
Not uncommon at this stage of training. Naturally the pressure is building; remaining focused and single minded can be difficult.
1. Speak to the CFI and seek advice. Often a break of one week to chill out can also help. Take it from there.
2. If that does not help, stange as it may seem to you, visit a psychologist. Most people find the consultation helpful with their confidence etc.
3. Mind over matter at the end of the day.
1. Speak to the CFI and seek advice. Often a break of one week to chill out can also help. Take it from there.
2. If that does not help, stange as it may seem to you, visit a psychologist. Most people find the consultation helpful with their confidence etc.
3. Mind over matter at the end of the day.
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Thanks all.
Sadly, the CFI is unapproachable, being one of those types who uses all questions and concerns as an opportunity to make students feel moronic for not already knowing the answers, or neurotic for having the concerns.
But I'll be giving everything else a try. And I mean everything. It's also comforting to know it's not just me!
Thanks again.
Sadly, the CFI is unapproachable, being one of those types who uses all questions and concerns as an opportunity to make students feel moronic for not already knowing the answers, or neurotic for having the concerns.
But I'll be giving everything else a try. And I mean everything. It's also comforting to know it's not just me!
Thanks again.
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Sounds like you should have chosen another FTO!
It's the job and duty of your FI to instruct, give advice, experience and encouragement when required. It may just be a personality conflict, but it would be good if you could give those about to embark on what is a very expensive and demanding conclusion to their training a clue as to which establishment this is. If it is as you describe it should be avoided like the plague!
The IR is hard enough without this sort of PAID FOR discouragement!!!
Good luck you will no doubt find the examiner more encouraging than your CFI!!!
It's the job and duty of your FI to instruct, give advice, experience and encouragement when required. It may just be a personality conflict, but it would be good if you could give those about to embark on what is a very expensive and demanding conclusion to their training a clue as to which establishment this is. If it is as you describe it should be avoided like the plague!
The IR is hard enough without this sort of PAID FOR discouragement!!!
Good luck you will no doubt find the examiner more encouraging than your CFI!!!
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To paraphrase a well known sports brand "Just do it"
I too, had a nightmare two flights before my IR test ... couldn't fly an ILS for nuts ... holding patterns completely fell to pieces ... just absolutely appalling standard of flying
My instructor was all dour and telling me that he didn't want me to sit the test, that I would have to do some more dual flights etc etc. Well I thought about it for all of 10 seconds and then I just had a big dummy spit and told him I had no money left anyway and I was doing the test on Friday no matter what, if I passed well great and if I didn't then I'd see him in another 6 months after I'd got some more money together
You can guess the rest, I walloped the test no problems at all. I honestly think the level of psychological pressure we are all subjected to in the days coming up on our IR, we are bound to start doing daft things in flight. Once the test itself was under way it was almost like the pressure was off and I could just relax and focus on what was happening.
I too, had a nightmare two flights before my IR test ... couldn't fly an ILS for nuts ... holding patterns completely fell to pieces ... just absolutely appalling standard of flying
My instructor was all dour and telling me that he didn't want me to sit the test, that I would have to do some more dual flights etc etc. Well I thought about it for all of 10 seconds and then I just had a big dummy spit and told him I had no money left anyway and I was doing the test on Friday no matter what, if I passed well great and if I didn't then I'd see him in another 6 months after I'd got some more money together
You can guess the rest, I walloped the test no problems at all. I honestly think the level of psychological pressure we are all subjected to in the days coming up on our IR, we are bound to start doing daft things in flight. Once the test itself was under way it was almost like the pressure was off and I could just relax and focus on what was happening.
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This sounds familiar, my problem came at the A170 stage, failed it badly twice.
Then sat it the day after my second failure and passed it
Next day flew with my instructor to keep current and was terrible, it was hinted that maybe a test in 2 days wasn't a good idea. I said "I'll be fine tomorrow", and for some reason I was, probably one of my best ever flights.
Test the next day a bit nervous at first, but after about 15 minutes the nerves disappeared (and my confidence improved)and things went well, the rest is history as they say.
The thing I tried to think of was. That I would not be sent to the test unless I could pass it. Therefore all I had to do was, do what I had been taught.
Also the examiners are not out to fail you but to make sure you are safe, you'll make some mistakes, everybody does, but try not to let it worry you.
Another thing I told myself was "one day I am going to pass this test, why not today"
Good luck
gdn
Then sat it the day after my second failure and passed it
Next day flew with my instructor to keep current and was terrible, it was hinted that maybe a test in 2 days wasn't a good idea. I said "I'll be fine tomorrow", and for some reason I was, probably one of my best ever flights.
Test the next day a bit nervous at first, but after about 15 minutes the nerves disappeared (and my confidence improved)and things went well, the rest is history as they say.
The thing I tried to think of was. That I would not be sent to the test unless I could pass it. Therefore all I had to do was, do what I had been taught.
Also the examiners are not out to fail you but to make sure you are safe, you'll make some mistakes, everybody does, but try not to let it worry you.
Another thing I told myself was "one day I am going to pass this test, why not today"
Good luck
gdn
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I've not experienced this yet, thankfully, but I haven't tackled the IR yet, so who know.
But the phrase about your 'instructor's negative "I don't know what to suggest..' was interesting. I'd suggest that when an instructor runs out of suggestions, it's time to change instructor. If you can't approach your CFI, then talk to your instructor. Tell him that it clearly isn't working, and maybe an hour or two with a different instructor might give you some fresh ideas or a bit of extra momentum, and see what he says.
Good luck!
FFF
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But the phrase about your 'instructor's negative "I don't know what to suggest..' was interesting. I'd suggest that when an instructor runs out of suggestions, it's time to change instructor. If you can't approach your CFI, then talk to your instructor. Tell him that it clearly isn't working, and maybe an hour or two with a different instructor might give you some fresh ideas or a bit of extra momentum, and see what he says.
Good luck!
FFF
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Same thing happened to me. Could fly everything well until the A170. Then damn it was too nerve wracking and I ended doing mistakes which afterwards made me ask myself how could I ever do that. I failed the A170. Did it again passed it then the IR - very good flight.
I can assure you - this is normal for some people. One hint I can give you is not to be influenced by those around you even if they breeze along with full grades.
Think of it as another flight and more importantly, think of it as a commercial flight i.e. you have pax at the back and that there is really no examiner next to you, and that your target is to be proffesional and commercial.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:
DO NOT dwell on mistakes. If you commit one forget it. MOVE ON.
Relax and think of it as a sequence of events - always ask yourself WHATS NEXT. Be one step ahead of the aircraft.
Convince yourself that its easy - in reality you know exactly whats coming up.
Fly the procedures in your head a night or two before so when a particular aproach is given to you you know it well.
Focus on getting the IR and that finally you have the chance of doing it - it will make you fly better. Remember not ever body gets the chance to do an IR!! hehehe
Good Luck dude - this is the wisdom i can pass on to you - but remeber i know exactly how you feel. YOU CAN DO IT.
I can assure you - this is normal for some people. One hint I can give you is not to be influenced by those around you even if they breeze along with full grades.
Think of it as another flight and more importantly, think of it as a commercial flight i.e. you have pax at the back and that there is really no examiner next to you, and that your target is to be proffesional and commercial.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:
DO NOT dwell on mistakes. If you commit one forget it. MOVE ON.
Relax and think of it as a sequence of events - always ask yourself WHATS NEXT. Be one step ahead of the aircraft.
Convince yourself that its easy - in reality you know exactly whats coming up.
Fly the procedures in your head a night or two before so when a particular aproach is given to you you know it well.
Focus on getting the IR and that finally you have the chance of doing it - it will make you fly better. Remember not ever body gets the chance to do an IR!! hehehe
Good Luck dude - this is the wisdom i can pass on to you - but remeber i know exactly how you feel. YOU CAN DO IT.
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After a couple of months flying every day, my flying was getting a bit scrappy before my IR checkride. Two things helped. First, a holiday - my flying was much better after a long weekend away. Second, doing different approaches. I had been doing the same three local approaches over and over and was probably bored and complacent. For my pre-test stage check we did approaches to places slightly further away which I had only done once before. I think I concentrated better on these just because they were unfamiliar so I flew them better - and I ended up choosing to do those approaches in the test too.
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From an instructor's point of view we do not try to be negative but particually at this advanced stage of training it is important for instructors to be honest. Most students that I taught for the IR might have had the odd bad flight but you would not hold them back unless you believed they were going to struggle with the test.
The CAA will pull the approval of a 170a instructor if the students sent forward keep failing. This is to stop students not up to standard being sent forward and hoping for a good day.
As I and many IR instructors paid our way through training we are sensitive to the costs but I would prefer to recommend a couple of extra hours of training at £300+ a hour than a fail with 5 hours mandatory retraining £1500+ a new test £650 a/c hire during test £450+.
Cait Sith
I suggest you tell your instructor of your worries and would also speak to your CFI in private, he/she will probably do all they can to help if you explain the situation to them.
What ever happens best of luck.
The CAA will pull the approval of a 170a instructor if the students sent forward keep failing. This is to stop students not up to standard being sent forward and hoping for a good day.
As I and many IR instructors paid our way through training we are sensitive to the costs but I would prefer to recommend a couple of extra hours of training at £300+ a hour than a fail with 5 hours mandatory retraining £1500+ a new test £650 a/c hire during test £450+.
Cait Sith
I suggest you tell your instructor of your worries and would also speak to your CFI in private, he/she will probably do all they can to help if you explain the situation to them.
What ever happens best of luck.
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IR bloooose
Cait Sith
Ten years ago I went through pretty much exactly what you describe. Its a horrible situation to be in, there's no arguing with that.
After seven years with the airlines and some more tootling around the USA in lots of lovely old planes, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of instrument flying is down to believing that you can do it. I am not a very confident IR pilot on my own, and constantly question myself to check that I am not missing anything. At the same time, I know I can do it, and I have found that out by, as someone said earlier "just do(ing) it". I just make very sure that I do my best not to ever get in a situation I don't want to be in - you know, one of those scenarios we read about in accident reports, or CRM courses.
When I reached that horrible plateau, both my instructor and I were at our wits end. He was an excellent, meticulous and sympathetic instructor. No doubt I was something of a challenge to him, but we got through it. I don't think that there is any particular tried and tested formula, everyone is an individual and an enigma. You just have to find your own way through it and believe that you can do it. If that means taking 2 days off for a complete break, or drowning your sorrows for a night or digging deeper into the books, I don't know.
But, you will get through it - thousands have before you, and plenty of them had a far worse time than you. Good luck!
Ten years ago I went through pretty much exactly what you describe. Its a horrible situation to be in, there's no arguing with that.
After seven years with the airlines and some more tootling around the USA in lots of lovely old planes, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of instrument flying is down to believing that you can do it. I am not a very confident IR pilot on my own, and constantly question myself to check that I am not missing anything. At the same time, I know I can do it, and I have found that out by, as someone said earlier "just do(ing) it". I just make very sure that I do my best not to ever get in a situation I don't want to be in - you know, one of those scenarios we read about in accident reports, or CRM courses.
When I reached that horrible plateau, both my instructor and I were at our wits end. He was an excellent, meticulous and sympathetic instructor. No doubt I was something of a challenge to him, but we got through it. I don't think that there is any particular tried and tested formula, everyone is an individual and an enigma. You just have to find your own way through it and believe that you can do it. If that means taking 2 days off for a complete break, or drowning your sorrows for a night or digging deeper into the books, I don't know.
But, you will get through it - thousands have before you, and plenty of them had a far worse time than you. Good luck!
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Just doing it.
Testing tomorrow.
In the end, had no choice. Events meant it had to be done this week or not for the foreseeable, so I've been forced to take what I suspect is in fact the healthiest line, psychologically: I've just GOT to do it.
I now gather my instructor has been mooching about saying moderately encouraging things about me... To everyone but me. It would be nice to have got the 170A with a real vote of confidence, rather than "Oh well, if you must, I'll do you one, then". But can't have everything. Though I do wonder what this says about his professionalism. I mean, either a student is, or isn't, up to scratch, eh?
It all means that on top of everything else, there's an extra pressure to "prove them wrong".
I have, though, flown the probable route three times in a row, and another five in my sleep. Which presumably means it will be changed at 45 minutes' notice.
Trying to stay positive, if only intermittently confident. Which is a shame, because as several aviational friends have remarked, and has been said on here, instrument flying is at least 70% confidence.
Here's hoping. And thanks again for all the thought-provoking, and comforting, responses.
- Cait
Testing tomorrow.
In the end, had no choice. Events meant it had to be done this week or not for the foreseeable, so I've been forced to take what I suspect is in fact the healthiest line, psychologically: I've just GOT to do it.
I now gather my instructor has been mooching about saying moderately encouraging things about me... To everyone but me. It would be nice to have got the 170A with a real vote of confidence, rather than "Oh well, if you must, I'll do you one, then". But can't have everything. Though I do wonder what this says about his professionalism. I mean, either a student is, or isn't, up to scratch, eh?
It all means that on top of everything else, there's an extra pressure to "prove them wrong".
I have, though, flown the probable route three times in a row, and another five in my sleep. Which presumably means it will be changed at 45 minutes' notice.
Trying to stay positive, if only intermittently confident. Which is a shame, because as several aviational friends have remarked, and has been said on here, instrument flying is at least 70% confidence.
Here's hoping. And thanks again for all the thought-provoking, and comforting, responses.
- Cait
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IRT tips
You are right - mind over matter.
1. A workman like performance is all that is required to pass the test, not perfection.
2. The CAA man is out to pass you. The paperwork is so much easier for him that way.
3. The test will be very fair.
4. Fly the way you have been taught, and don't, repeat don't ,start to invent things just for the test. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
5. Ensure you blood sugar levels are adequate, and you are hydrated.
6. Just treat it like any other flight, and treat it like taking a friend flying. The CAA guys are human and understand your test nerves etc.
Good luck, and let us know the outcome.
1. A workman like performance is all that is required to pass the test, not perfection.
2. The CAA man is out to pass you. The paperwork is so much easier for him that way.
3. The test will be very fair.
4. Fly the way you have been taught, and don't, repeat don't ,start to invent things just for the test. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
5. Ensure you blood sugar levels are adequate, and you are hydrated.
6. Just treat it like any other flight, and treat it like taking a friend flying. The CAA guys are human and understand your test nerves etc.
Good luck, and let us know the outcome.
Last edited by ecj; 21st Aug 2003 at 20:45.
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Have a feeling of having slipped through the net... It was a Pass.
Very nearly called it off, was in such a state of paralytic nerves. Only taxied off because the prospect of facing myself otherwise was too grim.
Made several mistakes and had one major brain-f*rt, to which the examiner responded by telling me to "sort it out". I did, which is perhaps the biggest confidence-boost of all.
You must be right, ecj, because Perfection the whole thing wasn't. But it struck me afterwards that, one brain-f*rt aside, I was on top of the situation throughout and even had a bit of capacity to spare much of the time, which was a surprise. Specially since the airport we went to was busier than I'd ever known it.
I was lucky in that I had a pleasant, laid-back examiner who, unlike many, seemed more interested in testing my ability to fly the aircraft than my resistance to stress.
The confidence level is still low and I'll probably always need the occasional pat on the head to keep going.
But this is the biggest achievement of my life, not least because I've fought tooth and nail to fly, since my "natural" abilities are apparently in very different areas.
Thanks yet again for all the support and advice. And despite the gripes about some personalities, I would thoroughly recommend the ATO (drop me a message if you would like details!)
Oh - my instructor reacted to the news with a characteristic shrug. But he did almost smile; and apparently radioed in from F070 to ask how I'd done..
- Cait
Very nearly called it off, was in such a state of paralytic nerves. Only taxied off because the prospect of facing myself otherwise was too grim.
Made several mistakes and had one major brain-f*rt, to which the examiner responded by telling me to "sort it out". I did, which is perhaps the biggest confidence-boost of all.
You must be right, ecj, because Perfection the whole thing wasn't. But it struck me afterwards that, one brain-f*rt aside, I was on top of the situation throughout and even had a bit of capacity to spare much of the time, which was a surprise. Specially since the airport we went to was busier than I'd ever known it.
I was lucky in that I had a pleasant, laid-back examiner who, unlike many, seemed more interested in testing my ability to fly the aircraft than my resistance to stress.
The confidence level is still low and I'll probably always need the occasional pat on the head to keep going.
But this is the biggest achievement of my life, not least because I've fought tooth and nail to fly, since my "natural" abilities are apparently in very different areas.
Thanks yet again for all the support and advice. And despite the gripes about some personalities, I would thoroughly recommend the ATO (drop me a message if you would like details!)
Oh - my instructor reacted to the news with a characteristic shrug. But he did almost smile; and apparently radioed in from F070 to ask how I'd done..
- Cait
Congratulations and well done. Time to get absolutely ******ed!
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IRT
Excellent news. MCC next? The way Easy are recruiting, I think that the bottom of the food chain will become easier for the newly qualified.
Get those CVs out as MCC is completed.
Get those CVs out as MCC is completed.