ATPL Training, OATS & others....
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ATPL Training, OATS & others....
ATPL Training, OATS & others....
Hi
I know there are lots of archives on the subjects, but would like up to date information that anyone has to offer.
I am looking at the modular Ground School training with Oxford Aviation and it looks like it costs £5500 for 2 phases of training, phase I and phase II, their ground school is supposed to be second to none, friends I have who have attended have agreeed.
However on the flying side of things, they have said they are good, but do not speak of it as highly as the ground school. Could anyone shed some light on this matter ? I heard that some of the instructors left there and set up a flying school elsewhere in the UK, Gloucester way I think ? again can anyone comment.
They also have a porgram called the APP, however it seems very expensive for what you get. Ground School, Exam fees,Flying Training to ATPL standard and MCC and some jet orientation.
I can't see how all this would cost £60,000. Especially as the ground school element is £5500. I could do the MCC for about £2500 and the Jet Orientation for about the same again, leaving a difference of £50,000. Is my flying really going to cost me that much ?? I dont think It would I think I could get it for less and have some money left for a type-rating (if it came to it)
There seems to be no apparent benefit of an integrated course over a modular one, at least that's my interpretation after reading the Gapan survey.... http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm
I am currently thinking, do the ground School with Oxford but find the best school I can for the flying side of things, if this is oxford so be it.
Any advice anyone can offer please
Regards
lost flystudent
Hi
I know there are lots of archives on the subjects, but would like up to date information that anyone has to offer.
I am looking at the modular Ground School training with Oxford Aviation and it looks like it costs £5500 for 2 phases of training, phase I and phase II, their ground school is supposed to be second to none, friends I have who have attended have agreeed.
However on the flying side of things, they have said they are good, but do not speak of it as highly as the ground school. Could anyone shed some light on this matter ? I heard that some of the instructors left there and set up a flying school elsewhere in the UK, Gloucester way I think ? again can anyone comment.
They also have a porgram called the APP, however it seems very expensive for what you get. Ground School, Exam fees,Flying Training to ATPL standard and MCC and some jet orientation.
I can't see how all this would cost £60,000. Especially as the ground school element is £5500. I could do the MCC for about £2500 and the Jet Orientation for about the same again, leaving a difference of £50,000. Is my flying really going to cost me that much ?? I dont think It would I think I could get it for less and have some money left for a type-rating (if it came to it)
There seems to be no apparent benefit of an integrated course over a modular one, at least that's my interpretation after reading the Gapan survey.... http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm
I am currently thinking, do the ground School with Oxford but find the best school I can for the flying side of things, if this is oxford so be it.
Any advice anyone can offer please
Regards
lost flystudent
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The jist of your research is ok, but your facts may be slightly wide of the mark. All in all, you could do the following:
PPL/Night = £5k
100 hrs building (in the states) = £6k+2k for accom/flights
ATPLs = £5k
Multi Engine/CPL = £6.5
IR = £13K
MCC/JOT = £4K
Test costs = £3k
Total = £44.5K (don't forget additional living expenses)
Hence, the question of why you should spend the 58K (plus3K for test fees) is a difficult one to answer. Personally, I would use the additional money for a flight instructor rating, or a type-rating. It's a hard sell to see where the APP gets you. Unless it is a guaranteed job at the end (which it isn't), then I would do the modular.
My own research is to do ATPLs at Oxford, and the flying at PAT, or somewhere similar.
PPL/Night = £5k
100 hrs building (in the states) = £6k+2k for accom/flights
ATPLs = £5k
Multi Engine/CPL = £6.5
IR = £13K
MCC/JOT = £4K
Test costs = £3k
Total = £44.5K (don't forget additional living expenses)
Hence, the question of why you should spend the 58K (plus3K for test fees) is a difficult one to answer. Personally, I would use the additional money for a flight instructor rating, or a type-rating. It's a hard sell to see where the APP gets you. Unless it is a guaranteed job at the end (which it isn't), then I would do the modular.
My own research is to do ATPLs at Oxford, and the flying at PAT, or somewhere similar.
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Can be done for less than that if you are on a budget, still with high-quality training. The groundschool can come in at around £4000, plus £728 for the exams (I assume included in your exam fees, no sponsor). The IR around the £10,000 mark, even less if you want to do more in the sim. Not sure of the going rate for CPL and ME but Probably some can be shaved off £6,500.
I admit I work for an FTO that offers all these courses, so it may be in my interest to publicise this, but I also think it is your interest. I recon the cheapest it can be done in the UK is around £40,000 to the school, £2500ish to the CAA. You may be able to shave a little off doing some hour building in the US, I am not sure of the current economics or the visa situation, but some of the CPL instructors note the poor flying of some students who have spent the last 100 of their hours “burning holes in the sky” in Florida, so do something constructive!
I suggest that before you make any decisions you call a few schools to arrange a visit. Pick more than one for each area of study, to compare how you feel about them. This is important, you will be spending a lot of money and time with them, you want to feel it is the school for you. This is a personal thing.
Remember your friends liked Oxford, but cannot say it is second to none if they never went elsewhere, nor can they say it will be the best for you. Visit Oxford and other schools, talk to other students, look at the notes, talk to the instructors, form your own impression.
Don’t make your final decision about flying yet. You may get a better impression when you have been in the system for a while, you may get a better offer later. Don’t automatically carry on with the same school, but use your time there to try to find out about the flying if the school does flying as well. Visit a few others with your greater experience of the training system, maybe in company with friends you have made in groundschool, to share thoughts.
Above all – best of luck! The course is tough, but very rewarding
I admit I work for an FTO that offers all these courses, so it may be in my interest to publicise this, but I also think it is your interest. I recon the cheapest it can be done in the UK is around £40,000 to the school, £2500ish to the CAA. You may be able to shave a little off doing some hour building in the US, I am not sure of the current economics or the visa situation, but some of the CPL instructors note the poor flying of some students who have spent the last 100 of their hours “burning holes in the sky” in Florida, so do something constructive!
I suggest that before you make any decisions you call a few schools to arrange a visit. Pick more than one for each area of study, to compare how you feel about them. This is important, you will be spending a lot of money and time with them, you want to feel it is the school for you. This is a personal thing.
Remember your friends liked Oxford, but cannot say it is second to none if they never went elsewhere, nor can they say it will be the best for you. Visit Oxford and other schools, talk to other students, look at the notes, talk to the instructors, form your own impression.
Don’t make your final decision about flying yet. You may get a better impression when you have been in the system for a while, you may get a better offer later. Don’t automatically carry on with the same school, but use your time there to try to find out about the flying if the school does flying as well. Visit a few others with your greater experience of the training system, maybe in company with friends you have made in groundschool, to share thoughts.
Above all – best of luck! The course is tough, but very rewarding
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With all the money that you will spend on a modular I'd recommend just going the full integrated route. Might be about 10K more but you can go commercial straight away rather than having to instruct.
I'd go to somewhere like Cabair if I were you - don't bother with oxford, they'd probably try to flog you the airline prep course, great - they guarantee an interview with a phantom airline they think they are affiliated with (those days are gone I'm afraid). CCAT have guys going to airlines now and I'd recommend it highly, best value for money I think.
I'd go to somewhere like Cabair if I were you - don't bother with oxford, they'd probably try to flog you the airline prep course, great - they guarantee an interview with a phantom airline they think they are affiliated with (those days are gone I'm afraid). CCAT have guys going to airlines now and I'd recommend it highly, best value for money I think.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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The full integrated route.... you can go commercial straight away rather than having to instruct
Anyway, there may be reasons other than cost why Flystudent prefers modular - maybe (s)he doesn't want to be away from family for such an extended period, or has work commitments, or prefers to be able to pick and choose the school for each stage?
FFF
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Mis informed
The Integrated course is more expensive than the Modular. A lot of this is down to the fact that the FTO pays a lot more in approval certification to the CAA then has to recoup the cost somehow (through the cost of the course to the student!)
The big differences between the two routes are that on an integrated course you have NO licence until you complete the full training and get the IR at the end. On a modular course you could apply for each licence as you pass each section. This means you could take a gap in the course for personal reasons or what ever is required. You also usually end up with more flying hours on the Modular course.
I started my training in 1999 and at that time JAR was only a few exams old. There were very few schools (in my opinion) geared up to cope with the transition from CAA to JAA. Modular was very much a mix and match route, and the airlines seemed to be preferring the integrated trained students, so the only option that I could see was to take the integrated route. Things have progressed a lot since then. The JAA system has seemingly been 'bedded in'. A new breed of FTO has taken a stong hold within the industry - the modular provider who can cover all modules from initial PPL through ATPL groundschool, CPL, Multi, IR & MCC. Essentially you are integrated in the fact that you turn up on day one and stay until you have finished and walk out the door with that little blue book.
What is right for one is not necissarily right for another. This is why there are a number of different FTO's all over the country/world offering essentially the same end result (ATPL) but with a variety of different options on how to reach it.
To correct Bobby. A Modular student does not have to instruct where an integrated wouldn't. I was an integrated student and I have an instructors rating. I know a number of different people with different training backgrounds who have or have not done FI courses and who have or have not landed a job with the airlines. There is no trend to this, but mostly perseverance and a lot of right place right time luck.
The big differences between the two routes are that on an integrated course you have NO licence until you complete the full training and get the IR at the end. On a modular course you could apply for each licence as you pass each section. This means you could take a gap in the course for personal reasons or what ever is required. You also usually end up with more flying hours on the Modular course.
I started my training in 1999 and at that time JAR was only a few exams old. There were very few schools (in my opinion) geared up to cope with the transition from CAA to JAA. Modular was very much a mix and match route, and the airlines seemed to be preferring the integrated trained students, so the only option that I could see was to take the integrated route. Things have progressed a lot since then. The JAA system has seemingly been 'bedded in'. A new breed of FTO has taken a stong hold within the industry - the modular provider who can cover all modules from initial PPL through ATPL groundschool, CPL, Multi, IR & MCC. Essentially you are integrated in the fact that you turn up on day one and stay until you have finished and walk out the door with that little blue book.
What is right for one is not necissarily right for another. This is why there are a number of different FTO's all over the country/world offering essentially the same end result (ATPL) but with a variety of different options on how to reach it.
To correct Bobby. A Modular student does not have to instruct where an integrated wouldn't. I was an integrated student and I have an instructors rating. I know a number of different people with different training backgrounds who have or have not done FI courses and who have or have not landed a job with the airlines. There is no trend to this, but mostly perseverance and a lot of right place right time luck.
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Flight Training
Hello Flystudent,
Just to belatedly follow-up on your first post.
Mark Bills and Vince Robertson, both ex OATS, and with around 20,000 hours between them run Westflight Aviation at Gloucester.
You might do well to include them on your list of FTO's to visit before deciding where to train. (01452 857775)
Have no reservations about Modular Training - providing that you chose the right FTO, you will come out with more hours, and at far less cost than Integrated.
Remember that the Airlines have a real problem finding high quality candidates to employ. Its your 1st time high grade passes at ATPL theory, and your 1st time IR pass which will get you called for interview, not the name of your training provider.
regards,
Just to belatedly follow-up on your first post.
Mark Bills and Vince Robertson, both ex OATS, and with around 20,000 hours between them run Westflight Aviation at Gloucester.
You might do well to include them on your list of FTO's to visit before deciding where to train. (01452 857775)
Have no reservations about Modular Training - providing that you chose the right FTO, you will come out with more hours, and at far less cost than Integrated.
Remember that the Airlines have a real problem finding high quality candidates to employ. Its your 1st time high grade passes at ATPL theory, and your 1st time IR pass which will get you called for interview, not the name of your training provider.
regards,
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Hello flystudent,
A friend of mine used OATS and thought they fitted the bill just fine. He qualified in 1999 and is now working for Britannia so they did the job.
Good luck and let us know which school you choose and how you get on.
Kind regards
pilotoneday
A friend of mine used OATS and thought they fitted the bill just fine. He qualified in 1999 and is now working for Britannia so they did the job.
Good luck and let us know which school you choose and how you get on.
Kind regards
pilotoneday
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Currently at OAT doing my ATPL ground school (modular route - £30,000 cheaper for the same license as APP) The ground instruction is second to none and the atmosphere is always excellent. However the food at the canteen is difficult to digest, and the customer services team are the worst I have ever come across, they have a belief that their accommodation Langford Hall is on equal par as the ritz, full of Algerians that run riot 24/7 playing music that would be unsuited in a German porn house.
good luck
good luck
Last edited by pilotpaul; 27th Jul 2003 at 23:38.
