Confused Kiwi needs help!
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Confused Kiwi needs help!
I've been reading lots of posts in Wannabes for a while now - but still don't have a basic understanding of how your system works in the UK.
Here it's nice and simple - pass the theory courses (CPLs are £800 for 10 weeks, ATPLs are £1250 for 15 weeks, both including price of exams). Then get up to scratch and pass a cross-country flight test, then pass a handling flight test (with associated ground theory). Make sure you have 200 hours (with various sub-requirements for PinC hours, night hours etc.) and you have a nice shiny new CPL.
I'm thinking of coming to the UK, working as a civil engineer to finance flying - but I read about 'modular' and 'integrated' and how everyone seems to be being ripped off left, right and centre.
Would I be better off training here (for £40/hr single, £100/hr twin) and then going over to the UK and paying to convert everything to JAA - or should I move to the UK asap and go from my current 110hrs to CPL through the UK system??
Any pros/cons you can give will be greatly appreciated!
(ps i do have a british passport)
Here it's nice and simple - pass the theory courses (CPLs are £800 for 10 weeks, ATPLs are £1250 for 15 weeks, both including price of exams). Then get up to scratch and pass a cross-country flight test, then pass a handling flight test (with associated ground theory). Make sure you have 200 hours (with various sub-requirements for PinC hours, night hours etc.) and you have a nice shiny new CPL.
I'm thinking of coming to the UK, working as a civil engineer to finance flying - but I read about 'modular' and 'integrated' and how everyone seems to be being ripped off left, right and centre.
Would I be better off training here (for £40/hr single, £100/hr twin) and then going over to the UK and paying to convert everything to JAA - or should I move to the UK asap and go from my current 110hrs to CPL through the UK system??
Any pros/cons you can give will be greatly appreciated!
(ps i do have a british passport)
Guest
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Cheapest way to do it now if you're determined to come here from downunder with low time, is to get at least a Kiwi CPL with a VFR multi engine rating (but don't bother with a kiwi instrument rating, you get no training reduction whatsoever any more for having a foreign IR).
When you come over here, the least you can expect will be to sit the JAR ATPL writtens (£4,000 approx), CPL skill test (£3,000), instrument rating (£10,000 at least), MCC course (£2,500) and, unless you're REALLY well connected, an FI rating so you can hour build (£5,000 approx). Total cost of licence conversion, about £25,000, plus living costs while you do it all. That's at least $80,000 kiwi - in other words, about twice what it cost you to get the licence in the first place
If you're coming across because you've heard a lot of stories about 200 hour pilots getting jet jobs in the UK, and you think you're going to come here and get amongst it, you are going to be very disillusioned. Truth is, that if you had completed all your training from day one, at one of a handful of very expensive full time flying schools, you would have had about one chance in five of getting an airline job straight from training. Since you obviously haven't done that, you can expect to hour build just like anywhere else in the world, around 1,000 hours minimum seems to be the magic number at the moment. It's honestly just as hard to get a first job here as it is back home mate, and a damn sight more expensive to boot.
My advice would be to stay at home for another couple of years and try to get 1,500 hours first, you can bypass a lot of the licencing nonsense if you've already got an ATPL, and have a much better chance of getting work when you get here. The beer is nicer down under as well
Feel free to email me, if you want to chat about any specifics.
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The PPRuNe side of the force ...
When you come over here, the least you can expect will be to sit the JAR ATPL writtens (£4,000 approx), CPL skill test (£3,000), instrument rating (£10,000 at least), MCC course (£2,500) and, unless you're REALLY well connected, an FI rating so you can hour build (£5,000 approx). Total cost of licence conversion, about £25,000, plus living costs while you do it all. That's at least $80,000 kiwi - in other words, about twice what it cost you to get the licence in the first place
If you're coming across because you've heard a lot of stories about 200 hour pilots getting jet jobs in the UK, and you think you're going to come here and get amongst it, you are going to be very disillusioned. Truth is, that if you had completed all your training from day one, at one of a handful of very expensive full time flying schools, you would have had about one chance in five of getting an airline job straight from training. Since you obviously haven't done that, you can expect to hour build just like anywhere else in the world, around 1,000 hours minimum seems to be the magic number at the moment. It's honestly just as hard to get a first job here as it is back home mate, and a damn sight more expensive to boot.
My advice would be to stay at home for another couple of years and try to get 1,500 hours first, you can bypass a lot of the licencing nonsense if you've already got an ATPL, and have a much better chance of getting work when you get here. The beer is nicer down under as well
Feel free to email me, if you want to chat about any specifics.
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The PPRuNe side of the force ...
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Don't forget to factor in the cost of living and the conversion rate from $NZ. You will need to work at something over here just to survive, and it's extremely expensive. I am lucky to have a 'better half' who is well paid and doesn't mind me sponging off her in the short-term. Also consider accommodation costs whilst doing your 'conversion' and exams. It all adds up. I got in under the old system, but have still managed to spend over 100K NZ on flying and living in the last year, so think very very carefully. Good luck if you are brave enough to give it a go. Market is certainly better than NZ at the moment, but Luke's warnings are sound.
[This message has been edited by G-LOST (edited 20 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by G-LOST (edited 20 May 2001).]
Guest
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Gidday Confused Kiwi,
Correct me if im wrong but are you saying that to do ATPL's for 15weeks in NZ is worth the equivilent of 1250pounds?
Where can you do a 15week ATPL course in NZ - Im dreading having to do them by correspondance and nobody seems to know of a school that teaches them.
(I may have miss-interpreted your post in that your stating the conditions for the UK).
Thanks in advance!
Correct me if im wrong but are you saying that to do ATPL's for 15weeks in NZ is worth the equivilent of 1250pounds?
Where can you do a 15week ATPL course in NZ - Im dreading having to do them by correspondance and nobody seems to know of a school that teaches them.
(I may have miss-interpreted your post in that your stating the conditions for the UK).
Thanks in advance!
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Kiwiboy,
Yep you've got it right - simuflight which has a few bases round NZ (I phoned the one at Ardmore) has computer based courses (I'm not sure what personal help you can get for ATPL - i did some ppl's there with instructors on hand for anything i was struggling with). They're hoping in the near future to combine the computer course with lectures as well.
They recently quoted me $350 a subject, not including the $176 exam fee. (for 7 subjects).
The timing is completely self-paced, but the guy told me that they take about 2 weeks each.
It amazes me that more programmes aren't taught - simuflight is the only one i know of.
Suggest you get hold of them, but feel free to mail me if i can be of any more use!
Yep you've got it right - simuflight which has a few bases round NZ (I phoned the one at Ardmore) has computer based courses (I'm not sure what personal help you can get for ATPL - i did some ppl's there with instructors on hand for anything i was struggling with). They're hoping in the near future to combine the computer course with lectures as well.
They recently quoted me $350 a subject, not including the $176 exam fee. (for 7 subjects).
The timing is completely self-paced, but the guy told me that they take about 2 weeks each.
It amazes me that more programmes aren't taught - simuflight is the only one i know of.
Suggest you get hold of them, but feel free to mail me if i can be of any more use!
Guest
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Prior to moving to the UK I used to fly at Flight 2000, the Auckland Simuflight headquarters. I have used the computer based training system whilst I was in NZ studying to sit the UK ATPLs. Very good system, but goes into a little too much detail. Can't fault that I suppose. At least you can work at your own pace, and pick and choose on content. They used to have a full time lecturer also, but that may have changed. Give Dale a ring and he'll see you right.
