advice for a BA cadet with 200 hours
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advice for a BA cadet with 200 hours
Hi folks,
I've just finished basic training (have CPL frozen ATPL, IR, 200 hours) on the BA cadet scheme in Michigan. I want to increase my hours (preferably on a Piper Seneca) while I wait for a contract with BA (could be some time). I'm willing to travel ANYWHERE to get more hours. My question is: does anyone know of companies (bush flying, air taxis, charter etc) willing to take on pilots with my experience?
Cheers
I've just finished basic training (have CPL frozen ATPL, IR, 200 hours) on the BA cadet scheme in Michigan. I want to increase my hours (preferably on a Piper Seneca) while I wait for a contract with BA (could be some time). I'm willing to travel ANYWHERE to get more hours. My question is: does anyone know of companies (bush flying, air taxis, charter etc) willing to take on pilots with my experience?
Cheers
You HAVE to be joking..?! As far as free multi hours are concerned you have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Seriously.
WWW
Seriously.
WWW
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Duh, just why should an air taxi, bush or other company wish to employ you for free never mind a wage?
You are a liability.
You've only ever flown from a handful of airfrields, mostly where you have been before in aircraft with which you are familiar. You have had barely 20hrs in the air without someone sat next to you.
In multi hours time you have proved only that you can just hold onto an aircraft in good weather condition for less than 2 hours and one engine hailure. That is hardly going to impress the owner of a commercial operation.
In his eyes you are crap and even if he wanted to employ you his insurers would not allow it.
So. My advice is either to take your hopelessly tiny flying experience and become a PPL flying instructor or to find some bull**** job to pay you whilst you wait for BA to pick up. And I would make it a good job because the £1.57p BA shares hit today means that it will be a LONG wait.
Sorry proto Nigel.
VREF
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Vref +50 ]
You are a liability.
You've only ever flown from a handful of airfrields, mostly where you have been before in aircraft with which you are familiar. You have had barely 20hrs in the air without someone sat next to you.
In multi hours time you have proved only that you can just hold onto an aircraft in good weather condition for less than 2 hours and one engine hailure. That is hardly going to impress the owner of a commercial operation.
In his eyes you are crap and even if he wanted to employ you his insurers would not allow it.
So. My advice is either to take your hopelessly tiny flying experience and become a PPL flying instructor or to find some bull**** job to pay you whilst you wait for BA to pick up. And I would make it a good job because the £1.57p BA shares hit today means that it will be a LONG wait.
Sorry proto Nigel.
VREF
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: Vref +50 ]
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Bit harsh there huh ref..
Other option is to become a CFI or try pipeline patrol. If you need hours try ferrying singles across the atlantic.
There seem to be cutthroat ferry outfits that see 200TT wannabees as a dime a dozen so it is not a big loss if you should ditch.
What ever you do make sure you get paid!!
Other option is to become a CFI or try pipeline patrol. If you need hours try ferrying singles across the atlantic.
There seem to be cutthroat ferry outfits that see 200TT wannabees as a dime a dozen so it is not a big loss if you should ditch.
What ever you do make sure you get paid!!
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Oh right - My Mistake! With barely 200hrs you shoudl consider tackling a trans-atlantic journey. CHRIST ON A BIKE out of the 300 odd GA pilots I know only 1 is capable of doing that trip safely and even he would only consider it as a Summer trip in extreme circumstance...
Just becuase BA thought you were great at interview do not expect the rest of the aviation community to agree. In fact your BA sponsorship is more likely to slam shut more doors than it opens.
Face it. Your flying skills are very limited. There are lots of good pilots looking for work at the moment. You should not expect much. Much includes money for flying aeroplanes...
Realisty bites and all that,
VREF
Just becuase BA thought you were great at interview do not expect the rest of the aviation community to agree. In fact your BA sponsorship is more likely to slam shut more doors than it opens.
Face it. Your flying skills are very limited. There are lots of good pilots looking for work at the moment. You should not expect much. Much includes money for flying aeroplanes...
Realisty bites and all that,
VREF
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Oh boy - how gratifying to see such helpful replies from supposedly professional people in response to a genuine, if maybe a little naive request from a young person who finds himself in a completely unexpected situation as a result of the events of last month. Contrary to some peoples opinion, the majority of these cadets are not arrogant prima donnas - just normal enthusiastic wannabes who happen to have been able to pass a selection process.
I may be mistaken, but I thought the first "P" in Pprune stood for professional. How disappointing to be proved wrong.
I may be mistaken, but I thought the first "P" in Pprune stood for professional. How disappointing to be proved wrong.
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Two things
1) Being in your position is not as bad as most ie: £40000 in debt struggling to keep current and feed yourself and if BA are going to take you on i wouldnt worry that much.
2) VREF +50 All it required was about three lines of the complete B*****ks you wrote get a life and try to be constuctive in future.
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: cln 7r ]
1) Being in your position is not as bad as most ie: £40000 in debt struggling to keep current and feed yourself and if BA are going to take you on i wouldnt worry that much.
2) VREF +50 All it required was about three lines of the complete B*****ks you wrote get a life and try to be constuctive in future.
[ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: cln 7r ]
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SenecaSoarer -
full marks for asking in the 1st place-
ignore the abuse and take the advice-
an Instructor Rating would seem the way to go-
as for multi hours- that's the catch 22
full marks for asking in the 1st place-
ignore the abuse and take the advice-
an Instructor Rating would seem the way to go-
as for multi hours- that's the catch 22
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Oh, so is my heart supposed to bleed for some lcuky little blighter who got a BA FULL ATPL
and now has now job to go to..?
Well my big fat hairy &rse to that matey boy. I know dozens of lads and lasses who have gained exactly the same quals at THEIR OWN EXPENSE and are not whining about job offers at this time.
They are merely keeping their heads down and getting on with it. Anything else is a sickening atttempt to turn a political event into a commercial opportunity...
VREF
and now has now job to go to..?
Well my big fat hairy &rse to that matey boy. I know dozens of lads and lasses who have gained exactly the same quals at THEIR OWN EXPENSE and are not whining about job offers at this time.
They are merely keeping their heads down and getting on with it. Anything else is a sickening atttempt to turn a political event into a commercial opportunity...
VREF
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Vref - I didn't detect any whining in the original post. Just an innocent request from a person who as you said is reasonably inexperience in the aviation world. Like us all at that point and indeed still, he/she has a licence to learn. With a bit of gentle advice they will learn whats required just give them a chance. You sound too bitter for your comments to hold any weight behind them. I indeed was a self improver and so wished I got a sponsorship. Looking back Im glad I wasn't selected as I have had I believe a very rounded introduction to the flying game so far but so would have taken the opportunity if it had been there. Just like you would if you had been lucky. They say never look a gift horse in the mouth!
This guy/gal has been trained to be a professional, just as the licence you hold implies. Give them the respect they deserve.
This guy/gal has been trained to be a professional, just as the licence you hold implies. Give them the respect they deserve.
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I can't beleive how may "arse" replies this guy has had. I think some of you so called "pro's" should take a look at yourselves. This guy had a genuine Question and should have got a Genuine answer. He shouldn't have been shot down the way you guys have decided to do so. I am a wannabe, and I admire people like him who have made it where i havn't.
A simple question requires a "simple" answer .
NUFF SAID
A simple question requires a "simple" answer .
NUFF SAID
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SS, take heart, this is not the first time that this has happened. In 1991 after the Gulf War and the closure of Dan Air and Air Europe, myself and 400 BA cadets found ourselves in exactly your position, lots of experienced pilot's chasing very few jobs.
Of the 401, only 37 managed to get a flying job in the next 2 years. The rest either went back to their original profession (in my case IT), or became a hosty for BA.
It took the best part of four years before my 220 hours TT were required again by BA. Now ten years later I await redundancy, good game this.
I would suggest that you try to get a flying job, but since that is unlikely, you should also seek alternative employment. Always remember to live for today, as tomorrow will take care of itself, you will be surprised how quickly time flies, no pun intended. Best of luck.
Harry
Of the 401, only 37 managed to get a flying job in the next 2 years. The rest either went back to their original profession (in my case IT), or became a hosty for BA.
It took the best part of four years before my 220 hours TT were required again by BA. Now ten years later I await redundancy, good game this.
I would suggest that you try to get a flying job, but since that is unlikely, you should also seek alternative employment. Always remember to live for today, as tomorrow will take care of itself, you will be surprised how quickly time flies, no pun intended. Best of luck.
Harry
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Seneca Soarer - you are a spoilt, mummys-boy brat, born with a gold mine in your mouth and you deserve to rot in hell for your ability to gain an ATPL without running up a debt equivalent to the national debt of Angola. I dance on the grave of your BA career.
Just thought I'd get that out of the way before Vref + 50K debt comes back. I fly regularly with many guys (now BA Captains) who were in your position following the Gulf war. A number did manage to find flying jobs, some as cruise pilots with Cathay (though in the current environment I advise against it), others as bush pilots in nasty African places. To achieve the later you'd probably need to know someone down there. If you don't have contacts, don't worry. When things pick up you'll be offered a BA contract and the company are understanding of a long lay off since previously flying. Previously lots of people worked in all manner of non-flying jobs, and none were discriminated against when it came to re-hiring. I understand you want a flying job, but you're probably better off going back to your previous career for 12-18 months until BA are back on their feet and call you. The situation is cr@p at the moment, but it will pick up and you've been selected by BA because you have the abilities that the company wants in its future Captains. When the upturn comes, and it will come, you'll be at the front of the queue for hiring. Unlike some of the purveyors of bad-vibes on this thread.
Just thought I'd get that out of the way before Vref + 50K debt comes back. I fly regularly with many guys (now BA Captains) who were in your position following the Gulf war. A number did manage to find flying jobs, some as cruise pilots with Cathay (though in the current environment I advise against it), others as bush pilots in nasty African places. To achieve the later you'd probably need to know someone down there. If you don't have contacts, don't worry. When things pick up you'll be offered a BA contract and the company are understanding of a long lay off since previously flying. Previously lots of people worked in all manner of non-flying jobs, and none were discriminated against when it came to re-hiring. I understand you want a flying job, but you're probably better off going back to your previous career for 12-18 months until BA are back on their feet and call you. The situation is cr@p at the moment, but it will pick up and you've been selected by BA because you have the abilities that the company wants in its future Captains. When the upturn comes, and it will come, you'll be at the front of the queue for hiring. Unlike some of the purveyors of bad-vibes on this thread.
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SenecaSoarer, perhaps the most important aviation "skill" is the ability to exercise good judgement in the face of conflicting advice. You can now choose whether to listen to the likes of Harry Wragg and Carnage Matey (who have obviously been there) or to Vref +50, a well balanced **** with a chip on both shoulders.
Your choice! Not too difficult is it.
Just remember, should you ever be applying for the same job, people with the attitudes and outlooks of Vref +50 will make you look good at interview.
Employers hire people not licences and logbooks. Good luck with the job hunt.
Vref +50 you are a complete arsehole. Sod off back to the swamp you came from.
Your choice! Not too difficult is it.
Just remember, should you ever be applying for the same job, people with the attitudes and outlooks of Vref +50 will make you look good at interview.
Employers hire people not licences and logbooks. Good luck with the job hunt.
Vref +50 you are a complete arsehole. Sod off back to the swamp you came from.
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I have to be honest folks. I do find the attitude of some fellow PPRuNers to be very disappointing. This particular person put out a genuine request for information and gets abuse back because of the plain fact that he/she is a BA Cadet. Hardly fair.... is it???? Come on folks... yes times are bad and whether you are self sponsored or a BA Cadet (or a cadet of any airline), some of us find ourselves in exactly the same situation at the moment. No jobs with everyone’s paws up for any flying that they can get hold of. Lets try and offer constructive help (even if it is negative feedback) instead of shooting the poor person in the foot before you have typed a thing. I am not a BA Cadet before any of you start speculating but I know a few BA cadets and the one or two that I know well are good, decent folks.
SenecaSoarer. My advice is for you to get an Instructors Rating (if you can) and instruct if possible. If you have to do it for free then so what, after all it is valuable P1 hours in the logbook and you have no outstanding training debts to pay. If you get paid for it then regard that as a bonus. For the price of a stamp and if it makes you feel better then send off some letters to some airlines/air taxi operators/flying clubs. Don't hold your breath for any thing positive but what can you lose for the price of a few stamps???! Yes it is true that things could be a lot better at the moment, but chin up because hopefully you have that jet job to look forward to, no matter how long it takes.
I wish you all the best
Regards
MG
[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: Mister Geezer ]
SenecaSoarer. My advice is for you to get an Instructors Rating (if you can) and instruct if possible. If you have to do it for free then so what, after all it is valuable P1 hours in the logbook and you have no outstanding training debts to pay. If you get paid for it then regard that as a bonus. For the price of a stamp and if it makes you feel better then send off some letters to some airlines/air taxi operators/flying clubs. Don't hold your breath for any thing positive but what can you lose for the price of a few stamps???! Yes it is true that things could be a lot better at the moment, but chin up because hopefully you have that jet job to look forward to, no matter how long it takes.
I wish you all the best
Regards
MG
[ 24 October 2001: Message edited by: Mister Geezer ]
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It's little wonder that many people feel reluctant to post on these forums is it?
A simple answer like: Well, 200 hours is not considered to be sufficient experience to gain employment in anything other than a flying school would have been sufficient!
You guys should rightly be ashamed of yourselves!
A simple answer like: Well, 200 hours is not considered to be sufficient experience to gain employment in anything other than a flying school would have been sufficient!
You guys should rightly be ashamed of yourselves!
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Quite agree with Sensible's sentiments.
WWW and Vref+50- remember the old adage whilst you were being trained- RTFQ- where has the lad stated that he wanted to fly for free? I have read and re-read his posting, and can't see any reference to him offering his services free.
Your replies sound to the unbiased reader that you have forgotten about your (slightly) earlier times in your flying career to date. A touch of diplomacy never hurts.
Brings me back to a question which I have posted before-
What is the point of students going through the Ab-Initio course, coming out with a "Frozen ATPL", a huge amount of debt, and less than 200 hours of flying? They were lead to believe when they started out, that they had a reasonable chance of obtaining work at the end of the course. (Notwithstanding September 11th)
Can anyone clarify how these unfortunates are now expected to turn their two hundred hours into 300 to 1500 hours, before they can be considered for an airline job? That is, (unless they can fund and find an instructor's job), many, many thousand more pounds worth of flying.
Surely, the ATPL course should bring trainees to reasonable minimum standards to fly commercial aircraft, since obviously, it was formulated by the JAA to do just this?
WWW and Vref+50- remember the old adage whilst you were being trained- RTFQ- where has the lad stated that he wanted to fly for free? I have read and re-read his posting, and can't see any reference to him offering his services free.
Your replies sound to the unbiased reader that you have forgotten about your (slightly) earlier times in your flying career to date. A touch of diplomacy never hurts.
Brings me back to a question which I have posted before-
What is the point of students going through the Ab-Initio course, coming out with a "Frozen ATPL", a huge amount of debt, and less than 200 hours of flying? They were lead to believe when they started out, that they had a reasonable chance of obtaining work at the end of the course. (Notwithstanding September 11th)
Can anyone clarify how these unfortunates are now expected to turn their two hundred hours into 300 to 1500 hours, before they can be considered for an airline job? That is, (unless they can fund and find an instructor's job), many, many thousand more pounds worth of flying.
Surely, the ATPL course should bring trainees to reasonable minimum standards to fly commercial aircraft, since obviously, it was formulated by the JAA to do just this?
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Totally agree with Tosh-where does it say that he/she is willing to fly for free?
Judging by Vref's posting(s), getting an apology out of him will be like pulling teeth. WWW, as someone who has been through it all yourself-at your own expense as well, and remembering some of the postings that you used to make, I would have expected a bit more from you.
Judging by Vref's posting(s), getting an apology out of him will be like pulling teeth. WWW, as someone who has been through it all yourself-at your own expense as well, and remembering some of the postings that you used to make, I would have expected a bit more from you.