V.A.T. Petition
Guest
Posts: n/a
Agree 100%. Cynical as I am about the chances of changing Treasury policy, if you don't even try & do anything, you don't have much to complain about.
Perhaps a wannabee living in the most marginal Labour constituency could hand in a petition?
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Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit pruning.
Perhaps a wannabee living in the most marginal Labour constituency could hand in a petition?
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Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit pruning.
Guest
Posts: n/a
You most definately have my vote on this one!
Paying VAT for your education so that once you qualify and earn over £28,000/year you can pay income tax at a higher rate (40%)stinks! It is a real tragedy that people who aim for their dreams are treated this way. The government want it all their own way - they did the same with IT contractors and the IR35 tax law. They want a mobile work force who can provide highly specialised skills AND they want them to run Limited companies BUT they don't want them to take the perks that ANY Limited company Director is entitled to! They insist on you providing all of the paperwork, articles of association, accountants etc etc but when it comes to the cash they wriggle it out of you with semantics...
Setting up a VAT registered company for flight training could be quite a good idea. The problem comes when you justify your day. They nailed IT contractors by claiming that because they reported to a place of work and were given direction on what to do during their working day, the contractors were technically working for someone else and as such should be taxed at source.
I am sure that eventually the government would concoct some sort of excuse toward flying. But as that would take some time, rather than pay £5250 in VAT on £30000 without re-course in a claim (even a partial one), then it is certainly worth a go!
Paying VAT for your education so that once you qualify and earn over £28,000/year you can pay income tax at a higher rate (40%)stinks! It is a real tragedy that people who aim for their dreams are treated this way. The government want it all their own way - they did the same with IT contractors and the IR35 tax law. They want a mobile work force who can provide highly specialised skills AND they want them to run Limited companies BUT they don't want them to take the perks that ANY Limited company Director is entitled to! They insist on you providing all of the paperwork, articles of association, accountants etc etc but when it comes to the cash they wriggle it out of you with semantics...
Setting up a VAT registered company for flight training could be quite a good idea. The problem comes when you justify your day. They nailed IT contractors by claiming that because they reported to a place of work and were given direction on what to do during their working day, the contractors were technically working for someone else and as such should be taxed at source.
I am sure that eventually the government would concoct some sort of excuse toward flying. But as that would take some time, rather than pay £5250 in VAT on £30000 without re-course in a claim (even a partial one), then it is certainly worth a go!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey, I'm an IT contractor and in training for a CPL/IR. I discussed running the costs through my company with several accountants -this means that I could claim VAT back and pay for the training out of untaxed income (like NVQ)
The unanimous repsonse was don't do it!!!
The Revenue have a 'fish' detector and this certainly whiffs strongly of it (especially since I'll be challenging them if they try to get me with IR35 tax).
ickle - that was the scheme I was thinking of trying - I was thinking about air taxi or instructing through the company to reduce the fishy smell for the revenue.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose, but I think I'll have enough to deal with come CPL/IR time without being worried about arguing about it all with Hector.
The unanimous repsonse was don't do it!!!
The Revenue have a 'fish' detector and this certainly whiffs strongly of it (especially since I'll be challenging them if they try to get me with IR35 tax).
ickle - that was the scheme I was thinking of trying - I was thinking about air taxi or instructing through the company to reduce the fishy smell for the revenue.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose, but I think I'll have enough to deal with come CPL/IR time without being worried about arguing about it all with Hector.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Seeing as there is a general election comming up in just over a month, it's probably the best time to ask MP's or budding MP's akward questions about this. They will all be out on the streets campaigning for votes, answering questions and kissing babies, and fairly easy to get at.
Can we mere PPRuNe's get this question asked to the right people. One good place would be one of the late evening 'Question Time' for MP's shows on TV etc ..
ickle
Can we mere PPRuNe's get this question asked to the right people. One good place would be one of the late evening 'Question Time' for MP's shows on TV etc ..
ickle
Guest
Posts: n/a
don't mean to be cynical but who gives a sh...t about the claims of few individuals out there >>> people training for the right to fly. There is no national school of airline pilots in the U.K so the selection has to be made by another mean : MONEY . Why don't Professional pilots get TAX relief ? because there are to many of them out there, IT's always the same story, airlines are recruiting and BLA-BLA-BLA but only the type rated people who have thousands hours on type
and us poor wanabee sods are left struggling to get this 1st job.
I find it completely disgusting but there are rules and we have no choice but follow them > if we want to change something we must ACT > 1st would be to create an Association and then we can start to be annoying to Officials......
and us poor wanabee sods are left struggling to get this 1st job.
I find it completely disgusting but there are rules and we have no choice but follow them > if we want to change something we must ACT > 1st would be to create an Association and then we can start to be annoying to Officials......
Guest
Posts: n/a
A bit of focus is required me thinks.
From memory when this topic was last raised on pprune it was around the disappearance of the NVQ which was as I interpret it, bastardised by individuals to get a PPL who did not intend to continue through to an ATPL. Added to the fact that the system was based around competency training akin to the apprentice schemes and at best a minefield for flight schools to interpret and implement. Thus, the small take up by people training and actually qualifying for a NVQ. There were other issues, but these were the main ones that stuck in my memory.
As an ATPL can now only be gained through modular or integrated study with an approved training organisation, this structure is more akin to the university system (tertiary education) and should be easier to keep track of (registration for VAT relief). So perhaps to qualify for VAT relief this should be done through a recognised training provider for someone completing studies in an ATPL course. The attraction of JAA member students who would not have to pay VAT would surely benefit businesses in the UK and the governments coffers. There would have to be a procedure if some one opted out of a course, which could be messy - but we are all here committed to the LHS of a shiny jet aren't we?
Some ammunition to support a claim for VAT relief is that pilots once earning jet salaries are in the top 5% tax bracket and thus fork out enough tax as it is at that level so the government would get their cut eventually!! An increase in JAA member students would be beneficial to UK businesses and to the UK government.
Unfortunately, for wannabe’s to get that jet job, the sacrifices and personal financial commitment can be best described as criminal. What other vocation are you required to personally take on such a large debt to gain a vocational career with such standards as continual assessment and medical scrutiny. I wonder how many backbenchers would approve of a annual medical paid out of their own pockets, added to the fact a renewal test paid out of your own pocket to prove you are still competent.
The over riding factor in this situation is that supply simply exceeds demand and the government can afford to be complacent when this exists, whereas doctors and teachers (Rotation and I hope so!) are in constant need.
My suggestion for action is to base a VAT exemption as an opportunity for all to access professional pilot training. The case being for a student leaving school without a family fortune, such a student will not be able to finance a career as a professional pilot. Surely, this is discriminatory (tax upon higher education)? Added to this is the fact that the industry is continuing to grow at 5% PA and is one of the worlds largest spin off industries - i.e. support services, freight, manufacturing, support of other business (travel) tourism.
A decisive statement showing the benefits of a system to the community at large is required to have any hope of reaching legislation. As has been mentioned there are so many other ‘worthy’ causes also struggling for tax relief. The statement must be written to reflect the future requirements and show that there will be benefit beyond the personal gain, not that I couldn’t do with the cash.
Stand up and be counted – ready for the push Blackadder? A cunning plan is required, a frontal assault can be fatal.
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Its life Jim, but not as we know it!!
From memory when this topic was last raised on pprune it was around the disappearance of the NVQ which was as I interpret it, bastardised by individuals to get a PPL who did not intend to continue through to an ATPL. Added to the fact that the system was based around competency training akin to the apprentice schemes and at best a minefield for flight schools to interpret and implement. Thus, the small take up by people training and actually qualifying for a NVQ. There were other issues, but these were the main ones that stuck in my memory.
As an ATPL can now only be gained through modular or integrated study with an approved training organisation, this structure is more akin to the university system (tertiary education) and should be easier to keep track of (registration for VAT relief). So perhaps to qualify for VAT relief this should be done through a recognised training provider for someone completing studies in an ATPL course. The attraction of JAA member students who would not have to pay VAT would surely benefit businesses in the UK and the governments coffers. There would have to be a procedure if some one opted out of a course, which could be messy - but we are all here committed to the LHS of a shiny jet aren't we?
Some ammunition to support a claim for VAT relief is that pilots once earning jet salaries are in the top 5% tax bracket and thus fork out enough tax as it is at that level so the government would get their cut eventually!! An increase in JAA member students would be beneficial to UK businesses and to the UK government.
Unfortunately, for wannabe’s to get that jet job, the sacrifices and personal financial commitment can be best described as criminal. What other vocation are you required to personally take on such a large debt to gain a vocational career with such standards as continual assessment and medical scrutiny. I wonder how many backbenchers would approve of a annual medical paid out of their own pockets, added to the fact a renewal test paid out of your own pocket to prove you are still competent.
The over riding factor in this situation is that supply simply exceeds demand and the government can afford to be complacent when this exists, whereas doctors and teachers (Rotation and I hope so!) are in constant need.
My suggestion for action is to base a VAT exemption as an opportunity for all to access professional pilot training. The case being for a student leaving school without a family fortune, such a student will not be able to finance a career as a professional pilot. Surely, this is discriminatory (tax upon higher education)? Added to this is the fact that the industry is continuing to grow at 5% PA and is one of the worlds largest spin off industries - i.e. support services, freight, manufacturing, support of other business (travel) tourism.
A decisive statement showing the benefits of a system to the community at large is required to have any hope of reaching legislation. As has been mentioned there are so many other ‘worthy’ causes also struggling for tax relief. The statement must be written to reflect the future requirements and show that there will be benefit beyond the personal gain, not that I couldn’t do with the cash.
Stand up and be counted – ready for the push Blackadder? A cunning plan is required, a frontal assault can be fatal.
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Its life Jim, but not as we know it!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
What about PPRuners who have the cash to self fund, joinning force and all going around trainning schools as a group looking to train as a group (ie 10 people have more bargainning power) bet you will get a discount and better treatment!!!!!
It will not solve the taxation issue, but it is a thought.
Sagey
It will not solve the taxation issue, but it is a thought.
Sagey