Oxford Aviation Airline Preparation Programme.
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Whichdoctor
As I said, my research was imperfect and needed lots of common sense applying to the results. I don't know if Oxford's results included modular and integrated courses, but it will have excluded anyone who did not do a JAA licence. When I visited OATS they said that the Algerians do not. Therefore, I conclude that the flying pass rates exclude the Algerians. Oxford were certainly very uncomfortable about discussing their pass rates.
As for your own experience, you may have go though with a better than average bunch. Also, the pass rates are poor when compared with other schools; if you trained only at Oxford it would have been difficult to compare, would it not? However, most people who trained at Oxford had lots of good to say about their flying instructors, with one notable exception.
As I said, my research was imperfect and needed lots of common sense applying to the results. I don't know if Oxford's results included modular and integrated courses, but it will have excluded anyone who did not do a JAA licence. When I visited OATS they said that the Algerians do not. Therefore, I conclude that the flying pass rates exclude the Algerians. Oxford were certainly very uncomfortable about discussing their pass rates.
As for your own experience, you may have go though with a better than average bunch. Also, the pass rates are poor when compared with other schools; if you trained only at Oxford it would have been difficult to compare, would it not? However, most people who trained at Oxford had lots of good to say about their flying instructors, with one notable exception.
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Employment after training
Ahh! It's good to get back to Pprune after an absense of so long.
Nothings changed though; same whinges and same threads lacking any real objectivity. But this thread caught my eye so I had to say something.
I did the Oxford course some years back and with hindsight I do not regret a thing. Just about every aspect of the course was satifactory; namely the training both flying and grounschool. I was lucky to have a selection of G/S and flight instructors that ranged from Ok to outstanding.
Let's face it people that is really what counts - nothing else matters. You're not going to be there for ever, but some anxieties do merit a moan and deserve to be dealt with without procrastination on the part of management.
That can be summed up as customer service. That is the litmus paper test for any company.
I recall the rooms at Oxford as being reasonable.
What the course lacked was a follow up service post graduation. Oxford were under no obligation to help me find a job but some sort of assitance would have been nice.
Just as a word of encouragement many of the guys I trained with who were all self-sponsored did get jobs; for some it took a while ie two or three years. For others they were line flying within a matter of months on B737, A320, B767, B757, J41, ATR42 ETC. I think we hit a golden period in the market.
Whoever you train with here is a bit of advice;
Work hard and pass every test and exam at the first attempt including the IR. Be nice, be humble. Rememeber that there are many who would kill to be where you are. Accept critisism with patience and accept praise with humility.
Just because you did a course at OATS or anywhere else does not make you Chuck Yeager. You have probably 250 hours ish when you finish - you have not even started learning yet.
Enjoy what you are doing EVERY day and thank God for the opportunity that has been given to you. Be positive. Then someone, somewhere will notice you and you may find yourself with your dream job.
Nothings changed though; same whinges and same threads lacking any real objectivity. But this thread caught my eye so I had to say something.
I did the Oxford course some years back and with hindsight I do not regret a thing. Just about every aspect of the course was satifactory; namely the training both flying and grounschool. I was lucky to have a selection of G/S and flight instructors that ranged from Ok to outstanding.
Let's face it people that is really what counts - nothing else matters. You're not going to be there for ever, but some anxieties do merit a moan and deserve to be dealt with without procrastination on the part of management.
That can be summed up as customer service. That is the litmus paper test for any company.
I recall the rooms at Oxford as being reasonable.
What the course lacked was a follow up service post graduation. Oxford were under no obligation to help me find a job but some sort of assitance would have been nice.
Just as a word of encouragement many of the guys I trained with who were all self-sponsored did get jobs; for some it took a while ie two or three years. For others they were line flying within a matter of months on B737, A320, B767, B757, J41, ATR42 ETC. I think we hit a golden period in the market.
Whoever you train with here is a bit of advice;
Work hard and pass every test and exam at the first attempt including the IR. Be nice, be humble. Rememeber that there are many who would kill to be where you are. Accept critisism with patience and accept praise with humility.
Just because you did a course at OATS or anywhere else does not make you Chuck Yeager. You have probably 250 hours ish when you finish - you have not even started learning yet.
Enjoy what you are doing EVERY day and thank God for the opportunity that has been given to you. Be positive. Then someone, somewhere will notice you and you may find yourself with your dream job.
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I went to OAT for an interview concerning the APP programme and was told by one of their marketing guys, who was incidently an ATPL graduate (from oxford) .........without an airline job.....bells ringing!
He informed me,
Success is almost guaranteed especially through the theory exams because they, " have such a strong connection with the CAA, class instructors know the examiners well and can predict what will turn up on the papers on each sitting"
I almost pissed myself with laughter, what a load of s'#t!
He then showed me through the school where every one looked like they were having the time of the life............. and from looking at their accomodation either on campus or the prospect of having to live off, I can see why!!!
Throughout the whole time I was there he mentioned the 737-400 sim about 15 times and even made it the grand finale of the tour.
I left feeling sick about what I would be getting for my 75-80k.
I know this is an experience that I have had personally and may differ from person to person. It does seem a tragic waste of money and would encourage people to check it themselves.
Concluding thoughts have to be either go modular or to BAE.
And remember, with respect to that job at the end, its not what you know but who you know... get networking
He informed me,
Success is almost guaranteed especially through the theory exams because they, " have such a strong connection with the CAA, class instructors know the examiners well and can predict what will turn up on the papers on each sitting"
I almost pissed myself with laughter, what a load of s'#t!
He then showed me through the school where every one looked like they were having the time of the life............. and from looking at their accomodation either on campus or the prospect of having to live off, I can see why!!!
Throughout the whole time I was there he mentioned the 737-400 sim about 15 times and even made it the grand finale of the tour.
I left feeling sick about what I would be getting for my 75-80k.
I know this is an experience that I have had personally and may differ from person to person. It does seem a tragic waste of money and would encourage people to check it themselves.
Concluding thoughts have to be either go modular or to BAE.
And remember, with respect to that job at the end, its not what you know but who you know... get networking
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Slightly off the the main thread so apologies........
Cunningplanmylord,
Why do you come up with that figure as the cost for this programme?
You must have known that the Course cost was £60,000 before you even went to have a look around OATS - its well advertised on their website so its not hard.
"OPTIONAL" accomodation = 10,000 (oxford) + 2000 (Tyler) - full board
Even if you decide on the outlandishly expensive 'STUDENT' accomodation with full board the final figure is 72,000.
Why pipe the figure to 80K?. Its always possible to sort accomodation out with fellow students at a considerably lower price while at oxford, lets say four in a house @ 1000quid a month basic rent (if lucky), that works out at 62.50quid a week each for basic rent , then about £3 utility bills each per week (40 a month for the house), £70 a week to live (it possible as a student !!) and to get to and from Oxford i.e would try not to be too far from oxford!!! This is a total of 135.5 per week compared with 196 per week in the Oxford accomodation halls.
here is how I work the cost.......
51 weeks in oxford = 135.5 X 51 = 6,910
14 weeks Tyler (No choise?) =2,000
Subtotal 1 =8,910
Flight Training cost =60,000 (Ist attempt, Licence issue, flights to/from US, visas)
Contingency 6% 3,600 (grnd/flight retakes)
Subtotal 2 =63,600
Total cost for the 65 weeks = 72 510
not much differcence with the nominal costing of 72,000 above, but this time you have over three grand to play with if you hit a few hurdles along the way, if you pass everthing first time then this dosh may go towards a FI/type rating if needs must.....but thats another story!!
So where do you get 75 - 80K?
I know 72,510 is still outlandishly expensive for a JAA CPL/IR and 6, 739 more expensive than BAe systems currently exchanging at (62,171 GBP) less the contingency factor of 3,600 mentioned above.
oyo624
P.S I'm just a prosepective student looking at all the options- well only considering one of the options here in this post COST!!!
Cunningplanmylord,
I left feeling sick about what I would be getting for my 75-80k
You must have known that the Course cost was £60,000 before you even went to have a look around OATS - its well advertised on their website so its not hard.
"OPTIONAL" accomodation = 10,000 (oxford) + 2000 (Tyler) - full board
Even if you decide on the outlandishly expensive 'STUDENT' accomodation with full board the final figure is 72,000.
Why pipe the figure to 80K?. Its always possible to sort accomodation out with fellow students at a considerably lower price while at oxford, lets say four in a house @ 1000quid a month basic rent (if lucky), that works out at 62.50quid a week each for basic rent , then about £3 utility bills each per week (40 a month for the house), £70 a week to live (it possible as a student !!) and to get to and from Oxford i.e would try not to be too far from oxford!!! This is a total of 135.5 per week compared with 196 per week in the Oxford accomodation halls.
here is how I work the cost.......
51 weeks in oxford = 135.5 X 51 = 6,910
14 weeks Tyler (No choise?) =2,000
Subtotal 1 =8,910
Flight Training cost =60,000 (Ist attempt, Licence issue, flights to/from US, visas)
Contingency 6% 3,600 (grnd/flight retakes)
Subtotal 2 =63,600
Total cost for the 65 weeks = 72 510
not much differcence with the nominal costing of 72,000 above, but this time you have over three grand to play with if you hit a few hurdles along the way, if you pass everthing first time then this dosh may go towards a FI/type rating if needs must.....but thats another story!!
So where do you get 75 - 80K?
I know 72,510 is still outlandishly expensive for a JAA CPL/IR and 6, 739 more expensive than BAe systems currently exchanging at (62,171 GBP) less the contingency factor of 3,600 mentioned above.
oyo624
P.S I'm just a prosepective student looking at all the options- well only considering one of the options here in this post COST!!!
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Oxford-expensive but good?
I'm in a similar position to others here - I want to do a full time integrated course (because lets face it that's what airlines prefer) - I don't know why but it seems to be the case.
I thus have three options: Oxford, Cabair and BAe. Now BAe is not really cheaper than Oxford when I take into account the fact I'm married and will have to spend money toing and froing to see the wife at weekends.
Cabair - great attitude, seems to have fine groundschool results and a refreshingly no bull**** approach to job prospects. I also think that the fact they do all the training in the UK is a huge advantage - just think, you get used to busy airspace and crap UK weather from day1. The price is great value at around £47000 and the aircraft I saw at Cranfield looked pretty smart. On the other hand the simulator facilities weren't as good as OATS and the campus felt a bit ramshackle and in need of some basic paint and TLC. It doesn't make a jot of difference to the training, just my state of mind while I'm training.
Then there's OATS. Expensive, but the best facilities, simulators and course notes of the bunch. In addition, they give you a few little extras like the pre-JOC course, more time on twins than most of the other schools etc. The whole place has an air of professionalism and gloss not unlike the airlines, but there is an undeniable smell of marketing bull too and whilst I don't worry about the quality of instruction, I do worry about the whole place being a sausage factory. In short I worry that if you struggle with a course element, you won't get any personal help or extra tuition, well not unless you pay extra for it. I sensed more human compassion at Cranfield and even at BAe. One example of this is that having been in touch with OATS marketing for months I asked them to let me know when a price rise was in the offing with a courtesy phone call. They didn't, so now I'm going to have to pay £7000 more for the course - it's not negotiable, it's just hard luck so I've lost out because of their administrative inefficiency. BAe phoned me proactively (I hadn't asked them to) to advise that prices would shortly be rising and invited me to book now to secure the older price.
I'd love to see more choice of Integrated provider and BCFT for example would probably do well with their excellent location and facilities if they offered one at a sensible price.
Desk-pilot
I thus have three options: Oxford, Cabair and BAe. Now BAe is not really cheaper than Oxford when I take into account the fact I'm married and will have to spend money toing and froing to see the wife at weekends.
Cabair - great attitude, seems to have fine groundschool results and a refreshingly no bull**** approach to job prospects. I also think that the fact they do all the training in the UK is a huge advantage - just think, you get used to busy airspace and crap UK weather from day1. The price is great value at around £47000 and the aircraft I saw at Cranfield looked pretty smart. On the other hand the simulator facilities weren't as good as OATS and the campus felt a bit ramshackle and in need of some basic paint and TLC. It doesn't make a jot of difference to the training, just my state of mind while I'm training.
Then there's OATS. Expensive, but the best facilities, simulators and course notes of the bunch. In addition, they give you a few little extras like the pre-JOC course, more time on twins than most of the other schools etc. The whole place has an air of professionalism and gloss not unlike the airlines, but there is an undeniable smell of marketing bull too and whilst I don't worry about the quality of instruction, I do worry about the whole place being a sausage factory. In short I worry that if you struggle with a course element, you won't get any personal help or extra tuition, well not unless you pay extra for it. I sensed more human compassion at Cranfield and even at BAe. One example of this is that having been in touch with OATS marketing for months I asked them to let me know when a price rise was in the offing with a courtesy phone call. They didn't, so now I'm going to have to pay £7000 more for the course - it's not negotiable, it's just hard luck so I've lost out because of their administrative inefficiency. BAe phoned me proactively (I hadn't asked them to) to advise that prices would shortly be rising and invited me to book now to secure the older price.
I'd love to see more choice of Integrated provider and BCFT for example would probably do well with their excellent location and facilities if they offered one at a sensible price.
Desk-pilot
Look I taught at BAE and have friends who joined OATS and CABAIR. There is naff all to choose between them to be honest.
You could do modular groundschool with Bristol who have received nothing but copious praise on this board for years now.
You could do a modular CPL IR with a smaller school somewhere possibly close to home. Do you realise the quality of instruction that lurks in unlikely corners of odd airports? It can be amazing. There are little schools out there with an aircraft per instructor. Where each instructor has been doing the job for 10 years+. Where you get the personal attention of the CFI every other day of the week.
Where the fees are small.
Honest - in the current market I wouldn't want to rush the training so go modular and save thousands.
When the good hiring times are here the large FTO's have an advantage. Airlines with cadet programs at the schools will often ask the school to recommend a few self sponsored students for the airline to look at. Sometimes this is due to there being a couple of failures of cadets under training.
This being the case going to Super Duper FTO Plc can be a good thing as it increases your chances of tagging onto the back of a cadet scheme.
But there are no cadet schemes in schools now and there won't be for a while. No airline is going to call the CFI's office and ask for half a dozen names of "good chaps".
Therefore a lot of the 'edge' that large FTO's have is gone.
The large expensive intensive course certainly suits some people. Going the modular way under your own steam is more daunting and challenging. You won't have the back up and support of a training coordinator or more importantly - a bunch of coursemates.
But for a circa £30,000 saving. Hell.
Good luck,
WWW
You could do modular groundschool with Bristol who have received nothing but copious praise on this board for years now.
You could do a modular CPL IR with a smaller school somewhere possibly close to home. Do you realise the quality of instruction that lurks in unlikely corners of odd airports? It can be amazing. There are little schools out there with an aircraft per instructor. Where each instructor has been doing the job for 10 years+. Where you get the personal attention of the CFI every other day of the week.
Where the fees are small.
Honest - in the current market I wouldn't want to rush the training so go modular and save thousands.
When the good hiring times are here the large FTO's have an advantage. Airlines with cadet programs at the schools will often ask the school to recommend a few self sponsored students for the airline to look at. Sometimes this is due to there being a couple of failures of cadets under training.
This being the case going to Super Duper FTO Plc can be a good thing as it increases your chances of tagging onto the back of a cadet scheme.
But there are no cadet schemes in schools now and there won't be for a while. No airline is going to call the CFI's office and ask for half a dozen names of "good chaps".
Therefore a lot of the 'edge' that large FTO's have is gone.
The large expensive intensive course certainly suits some people. Going the modular way under your own steam is more daunting and challenging. You won't have the back up and support of a training coordinator or more importantly - a bunch of coursemates.
But for a circa £30,000 saving. Hell.
Good luck,
WWW
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Desk Pilot
As regards the 'sausage factory' at OAT, I am sorry to say that if you are having difficulty at any point in the course (seemingly regardless of the circumstances surrounding it), you will be left behind and prety much forgotten about, even if you fight your corner. This happened to some good friends of mine, and needless to say they have now taken their remaining business elsewhere.
As regards the 'sausage factory' at OAT, I am sorry to say that if you are having difficulty at any point in the course (seemingly regardless of the circumstances surrounding it), you will be left behind and prety much forgotten about, even if you fight your corner. This happened to some good friends of mine, and needless to say they have now taken their remaining business elsewhere.
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For some time now I have been monitoring the postings on FTO's
I'm going to start my training later this year, I don't want to go modular as the best schools are miles from where I live and i'm not keen on the distance learning idea! My job is poorly paid so there is no incentive to remain in work why studying. Therefore for me, integrated is the option although the costs are larger.
My problem is where to choose? i'm down to two, BAE or OAT.
Not holding my breath, ive been to OAT for the selection. I went there with a very closed mind thinking after much forum reading, i'd have a polite look not caring whether i get in!
However, as the selection days went on and i saw round the place, i thought it would be a good place to train, staff are polite, friendly etc. The halls were ****e but i'm not bothered by that! Sims look good and the place had a heathly glow, clean, modern class rooms, the aircraft all looked good etc, and by the end of my two day selection I really wanted to go there! (and the tour ended at the 737 sim before anyone asks)
Now, i'm stuck! Having read the bashings i'm worried! i have friends going to BAE in September and since no one slags BAE, i'm thinking yeah maybe thats the place to go!
Yes its a bit further from home but its cheaper and seems to have an untainted reputation! But by going there, and saving a few bucks, am i losing out on things that will make me more employable: industral visits, cv writing skills, a chap that promotes your CV, and 30 hours 737sim?
There must be an advantage of 737 sim time than a HS-800 8 seater jet sim they have in Jerez.
Anyway, there are pros and cons i'm sure and my next step is a trip to the pro fly training show on the 12th of April (www.flyer.co.uk) to help make a decision!
I'm sure others are in my situation, so lets forget the marketing bull**** et al talked about above, lay down facts or constructive thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the APP to help people like me make a decision!!
Regards
Red Ice
I'm going to start my training later this year, I don't want to go modular as the best schools are miles from where I live and i'm not keen on the distance learning idea! My job is poorly paid so there is no incentive to remain in work why studying. Therefore for me, integrated is the option although the costs are larger.
My problem is where to choose? i'm down to two, BAE or OAT.
Not holding my breath, ive been to OAT for the selection. I went there with a very closed mind thinking after much forum reading, i'd have a polite look not caring whether i get in!
However, as the selection days went on and i saw round the place, i thought it would be a good place to train, staff are polite, friendly etc. The halls were ****e but i'm not bothered by that! Sims look good and the place had a heathly glow, clean, modern class rooms, the aircraft all looked good etc, and by the end of my two day selection I really wanted to go there! (and the tour ended at the 737 sim before anyone asks)
Now, i'm stuck! Having read the bashings i'm worried! i have friends going to BAE in September and since no one slags BAE, i'm thinking yeah maybe thats the place to go!
Yes its a bit further from home but its cheaper and seems to have an untainted reputation! But by going there, and saving a few bucks, am i losing out on things that will make me more employable: industral visits, cv writing skills, a chap that promotes your CV, and 30 hours 737sim?
There must be an advantage of 737 sim time than a HS-800 8 seater jet sim they have in Jerez.
Anyway, there are pros and cons i'm sure and my next step is a trip to the pro fly training show on the 12th of April (www.flyer.co.uk) to help make a decision!
I'm sure others are in my situation, so lets forget the marketing bull**** et al talked about above, lay down facts or constructive thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of the APP to help people like me make a decision!!
Regards
Red Ice
Last edited by Red Ice; 28th Mar 2003 at 17:41.
"There must be an advantage of 737 sim time than a HS-800 8 seater jet sim they have in Jerez. "
Not really. You are learning procedures and crew cooperation. The aircraft type is not that relevant.
After all if British Airways. Aer Lingus and MyTravel were happy with their cadets using an HS-800 sim, there appears to be no problem.
Not really. You are learning procedures and crew cooperation. The aircraft type is not that relevant.
After all if British Airways. Aer Lingus and MyTravel were happy with their cadets using an HS-800 sim, there appears to be no problem.
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As this thread is quite old now I was just wondering if anyone had any recent experience/knowledge of how the Oxford APP programme was working out
Are they filling courses?
Is is the selection process difficult?
I'm thinking of applying for the course but thought I would give it a while to see how it developed
I attended the Oxford seminar a few months back so I'm just looking for any up to date experiences
Not really interested in the usual Oxford bashing that seems to take place on here,just objective insights from those who know what they are talking about
Thanks
Are they filling courses?
Is is the selection process difficult?
I'm thinking of applying for the course but thought I would give it a while to see how it developed
I attended the Oxford seminar a few months back so I'm just looking for any up to date experiences
Not really interested in the usual Oxford bashing that seems to take place on here,just objective insights from those who know what they are talking about
Thanks
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Just wanted to say that I have just finished the ATPL groundschool with Bristol, taking exams this week. They were excellent. Anyone with any nonce should achieve all first time passes comfortably, in just six months full-time home study. Cheap and very very cheerful.
SOME VIEWS:
I am going to Florida for the CPL before Christmas, and OAT for IR in the new year. Just in case OAT is the best (we know they have receommended to BA in the past), is it not worth gambling a few £000s (one months pilot salary) just in case? OAT may be worth it, or may not - but you will only know when you do/dont get invited to the interview with an airline. Your choice. Or you could go to Michigan, USA in winter <shiver>....
There are several MCC/JOT providers and the 737 trainer at Oxford does not seem the best option anyway if you consider the industry dynamcis and the people teaching you (versus the available options).
In conclusion, no-one will hand you a job wherever you finish, so get up off your @rse and pass everything first time with flying colours. And dont skimp on the cost, because this is a very competitive market an every advantage (real or imagined) could make all the difference.
ps go the the PFT show this sat, but expect everyone to talk their own book.
SOME VIEWS:
I am going to Florida for the CPL before Christmas, and OAT for IR in the new year. Just in case OAT is the best (we know they have receommended to BA in the past), is it not worth gambling a few £000s (one months pilot salary) just in case? OAT may be worth it, or may not - but you will only know when you do/dont get invited to the interview with an airline. Your choice. Or you could go to Michigan, USA in winter <shiver>....
There are several MCC/JOT providers and the 737 trainer at Oxford does not seem the best option anyway if you consider the industry dynamcis and the people teaching you (versus the available options).
In conclusion, no-one will hand you a job wherever you finish, so get up off your @rse and pass everything first time with flying colours. And dont skimp on the cost, because this is a very competitive market an every advantage (real or imagined) could make all the difference.
ps go the the PFT show this sat, but expect everyone to talk their own book.
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I appreciate the advice,but for various reasons I need to get onto an integrated course which narrows down my choices
I'm just looking at Oxford as an option and but it seems hard to come by any objective views on the place. I've been exposed to all the marketing blurb which Oxford are so good at,which I take with a pinch of salt. But having said that I give the same weight to people who bash the place because a friend of a friend of a friend told them something bad about it once in the pub
I resurrected this post given that the APP has been running for a while now someone might be able to provide an insight
I was just wondering how popular the course is proving.Are they fully subscribed?
Anyone on it at the moment?
I'm just looking at Oxford as an option and but it seems hard to come by any objective views on the place. I've been exposed to all the marketing blurb which Oxford are so good at,which I take with a pinch of salt. But having said that I give the same weight to people who bash the place because a friend of a friend of a friend told them something bad about it once in the pub
I resurrected this post given that the APP has been running for a while now someone might be able to provide an insight
I was just wondering how popular the course is proving.Are they fully subscribed?
Anyone on it at the moment?
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I'm on 1 of the APP courses currently, and all I can say from my point of view it was the best decision I have made. Ground School quality is excellent (not quite the same as OATs Modular as we do a LOT more hours), can't comment on the flying as I have not started it yet.
Everyone has a different personal circumstance, it really annoys me the number of people on these forums who slate Oxford and other schools without having actually attended the course at the school. I am not going to even try and say that OATS is better than all the rest, I am not in the position to judge that. I looked at other schools, decided the APP was best for me in my circumstances and I have not regretted that decision.
Sure there have been a few little niggles as any company will have (why do the OATs ones only seem to get picked on in these forums though???). But to counter that there have been more positive surprises than niggles, and a general feeling that OATs management are doing a lot behind the scenes to make the APP work.
In short, if you feel an Integrated course is for you, and the APP appeals to you then go for it, you won't regret it unless flying is not your calling. If you are not convinced, then don't spend your money on it - would you buy a house that you didn't have a positive feeling about???
Finally, for all those people doing modular routes, just accept your chosen training path - you chose that for a reason that was relating to your personal circumstances, so don't slate something you don't know the full details about - to do so just makes you look Jealous and a bit pathetic, so just try and be constructive and help people and not be a whinger who complicates peoples decisions to spend a stupid amount of money.
Big Air
PS. For those people thinking that doing all your Modular training elsewhere and just your IR at Oxford will get them to recomend you to BA or anyone else, then you are kidding youurself - there is a big queue of APP guys that will get any recomendation first, followed by the guys who have done all their modular training at OATS, and then maybe you. Simple economics really, you try and sell the new sportscar before the lemon with an unknown history parked in the alley round the back.
Everyone has a different personal circumstance, it really annoys me the number of people on these forums who slate Oxford and other schools without having actually attended the course at the school. I am not going to even try and say that OATS is better than all the rest, I am not in the position to judge that. I looked at other schools, decided the APP was best for me in my circumstances and I have not regretted that decision.
Sure there have been a few little niggles as any company will have (why do the OATs ones only seem to get picked on in these forums though???). But to counter that there have been more positive surprises than niggles, and a general feeling that OATs management are doing a lot behind the scenes to make the APP work.
In short, if you feel an Integrated course is for you, and the APP appeals to you then go for it, you won't regret it unless flying is not your calling. If you are not convinced, then don't spend your money on it - would you buy a house that you didn't have a positive feeling about???
Finally, for all those people doing modular routes, just accept your chosen training path - you chose that for a reason that was relating to your personal circumstances, so don't slate something you don't know the full details about - to do so just makes you look Jealous and a bit pathetic, so just try and be constructive and help people and not be a whinger who complicates peoples decisions to spend a stupid amount of money.
Big Air
PS. For those people thinking that doing all your Modular training elsewhere and just your IR at Oxford will get them to recomend you to BA or anyone else, then you are kidding youurself - there is a big queue of APP guys that will get any recomendation first, followed by the guys who have done all their modular training at OATS, and then maybe you. Simple economics really, you try and sell the new sportscar before the lemon with an unknown history parked in the alley round the back.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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cream will always rise to the top
I first posted this topic about six months ago. I had a look around some of the schools mentioned (cabair,OAT,Airmed,Airmadrid,Delta,Atlantic)and looked for advice on this forum.
I was determined to do a intergrated course but people like the welshman,sendclowns,deltang and others made all sorts of suggestions on how to gain my atpl.
At first i felt as if i was banging my head against a brick wall,so i took bits of advice from everyone who cared to give me any constructive advice.
I thought the most important thing about the likes of OAT and Airmadrid was that they would give me a better chance of employment in the industry, i also became fixated on the sim.
I have to conclude that:
1. Hrs=greater chance of employment,not school or sim(confirmed only yesterday when I spoke to an instuctor from OAT who had just completed his intergrated)
2. The amount of money i will save doing a modular will go towards hour building/instructor and sim when required
3.The more schools I use the better networking capacity.
4. Those who say you will complete within 12 months base this on a very small % and seems 14-18months more accurate(same duration as modular)
5.There are those who need someone to hold there hand and others who dont,this is not a critisism but a fact of life and a study preference.
6.The most important factor in all of this should be your love for flying.
7. Go and hang out at these places and speak to the students and often very frustrated instructors.
8.Read how pilot pete got where he is now.
listen to the guys who have been there and done it and judge for yourself
I was determined to do a intergrated course but people like the welshman,sendclowns,deltang and others made all sorts of suggestions on how to gain my atpl.
At first i felt as if i was banging my head against a brick wall,so i took bits of advice from everyone who cared to give me any constructive advice.
I thought the most important thing about the likes of OAT and Airmadrid was that they would give me a better chance of employment in the industry, i also became fixated on the sim.
I have to conclude that:
1. Hrs=greater chance of employment,not school or sim(confirmed only yesterday when I spoke to an instuctor from OAT who had just completed his intergrated)
2. The amount of money i will save doing a modular will go towards hour building/instructor and sim when required
3.The more schools I use the better networking capacity.
4. Those who say you will complete within 12 months base this on a very small % and seems 14-18months more accurate(same duration as modular)
5.There are those who need someone to hold there hand and others who dont,this is not a critisism but a fact of life and a study preference.
6.The most important factor in all of this should be your love for flying.
7. Go and hang out at these places and speak to the students and often very frustrated instructors.
8.Read how pilot pete got where he is now.
listen to the guys who have been there and done it and judge for yourself
Last edited by sinsall; 5th Nov 2003 at 08:54.