Professional Training in France
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 35
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From: Luton
Hi willjeffery,
You'll find the listing of all french FTOs on the DGAC website (the french equivalent of the UK CAA):
http://www.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/h...ilo/ecform.pdf
Have good flights in the sunny french skies
FFB.
You'll find the listing of all french FTOs on the DGAC website (the french equivalent of the UK CAA):
http://www.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/h...ilo/ecform.pdf
Have good flights in the sunny french skies
FFB.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: Canada third world country of aviation
Good school in France?
Hello Boys.
Just looking for inputs, i am looking for a school in France to convert my ATPL to JAA.
Any of you did their training/conversion in France, let me know about either full time or on line course.
How long to do the course on line? how much cash?
Thank boys good night.
I am returning to rainy Toronto.
Just looking for inputs, i am looking for a school in France to convert my ATPL to JAA.
Any of you did their training/conversion in France, let me know about either full time or on line course.
How long to do the course on line? how much cash?
Thank boys good night.
I am returning to rainy Toronto.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: arbroath,angus,UK
Working in France on UK issued JAR CPL
Might be off to France - other half might have landed a new job. Heard viscious rumours that France was still pretty much a closed shop UNLESS you got your CPL by training in France. I hold an unrestricted JAR CPL (A) with FI rating (again unrestricted). Anyone any info?
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Europe
I made an enquiry a few months back to the DGAC in Paris. I also have a JAA CPL with all the trimmings and a job offer in the French West Indies. As I simply couldn't afford to renew my IR/MEP I asked for a conversion of my JAA licence to a French CPL. The UK CAA had given the chief pilot/company examiner written permission to carry out my IR/MEP renewal in the islands but the French still felt that this wasn't good enough. Don't really know why one has to convert a JAA licence to a national licence in a JAA member state but would love to find out. No decent answers from the relevant authorities forthcoming as yet!
What this all boils down to is that even though all the JAA member states have signed up to the same thing and knew what they were letting themselves in for there are still "differences" from country to country. The point of JAA is that the bearer of such a licence should be able to use it/renew it in any member state, to the same standard and that all member states will recognize the validity of the licence. Working rights/language requirements are another matter (and very popular as a means to keep out those they don't want, which for France seems to be almost everybody).
I fear that it will be some time before the rules are applied to our benefit instead of the reverse. Perhaps many of the signatory states rushed into it for political reasons without being adequately prepared to implement.
What this all boils down to is that even though all the JAA member states have signed up to the same thing and knew what they were letting themselves in for there are still "differences" from country to country. The point of JAA is that the bearer of such a licence should be able to use it/renew it in any member state, to the same standard and that all member states will recognize the validity of the licence. Working rights/language requirements are another matter (and very popular as a means to keep out those they don't want, which for France seems to be almost everybody).
I fear that it will be some time before the rules are applied to our benefit instead of the reverse. Perhaps many of the signatory states rushed into it for political reasons without being adequately prepared to implement.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
France is probably the least compliant JAA member state when it comes to mutual recognition of licences and ratings. This is doubtless due to the total subservience of the DGAC to the Frech pilot's union and French industry.
There are numerous examples of the DGAC refusing to recognise licences and ratings issued by other JAA member states on the most spurious of grounds and, according to a TRI at a major UK-based TRTO, a French pilot's LPC was recently rejected because the TRE held a Maltese licence and Malta was not a member of the EU!!! There are also examples of refusal to recognise licences gained as a result of training undertaken in non-JAA states, such as the USA.
As el dorado has obviously discovered, every possible obstacle will be placed in the way of a non-French JAA licence holder seeking to work in France or French overseas territories and it is probably not worth considering unless you are a fluent French speaker. Graduation from a French university has also been quoted as a pre-requisite to employment in a French airline in the past but I think the EU stepped in and declared that contrary to EU law.
Things might change when EASA takes over responsibility for Licensing but that won't be until 2006 at the earliest and France also has a record of ignoring those elements of EU law that it doesn't like - and getting away with it.
There are numerous examples of the DGAC refusing to recognise licences and ratings issued by other JAA member states on the most spurious of grounds and, according to a TRI at a major UK-based TRTO, a French pilot's LPC was recently rejected because the TRE held a Maltese licence and Malta was not a member of the EU!!! There are also examples of refusal to recognise licences gained as a result of training undertaken in non-JAA states, such as the USA.
As el dorado has obviously discovered, every possible obstacle will be placed in the way of a non-French JAA licence holder seeking to work in France or French overseas territories and it is probably not worth considering unless you are a fluent French speaker. Graduation from a French university has also been quoted as a pre-requisite to employment in a French airline in the past but I think the EU stepped in and declared that contrary to EU law.
Things might change when EASA takes over responsibility for Licensing but that won't be until 2006 at the earliest and France also has a record of ignoring those elements of EU law that it doesn't like - and getting away with it.
The Cooler King
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 30
From: Europe
It is REALLY difficult to find work in France. I know five pilots here who are out of work after the recent demise of a few of the regional airlines.
They are finding it impossible to work here and are moving the wife and kids off to Asia to try and get a job there.
All these guys have 3000 hrs plus on jets.
I'm still trying to find a job to pay for my groundschool with Bristol
- hey guys, send me the software and I promise I'll pay you when I get my pay cheque in June!!!!
They are finding it impossible to work here and are moving the wife and kids off to Asia to try and get a job there.
All these guys have 3000 hrs plus on jets.
I'm still trying to find a job to pay for my groundschool with Bristol
- hey guys, send me the software and I promise I'll pay you when I get my pay cheque in June!!!!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Hi people,
Thought I was one or the few with this problem. We'll probably never get good answers to the questions raised.
I've stopped worrying about it, just got to look elsewhere.
Hope it works out for all of you.
el d.
Thought I was one or the few with this problem. We'll probably never get good answers to the questions raised.
I've stopped worrying about it, just got to look elsewhere.
Hope it works out for all of you.
el d.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: In the weather
Hey Syd, if youre who I think you are why not call Christophe (french chap that instructed in Perth a year or so ago) see if he knows anything. I heard he was working as an instructor in france a while back. Dunno if he trained in the UK or France though.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 987
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From: Normandy
Graduation from a French university has also been quoted as a pre-requisite to employment in a French airline
Back on the subject :
Am french holding a JAA CPL/IR issued in UK and am in the process of getting a validation to work in France.
Technically, you can work here with a JAA, non french issued, but you cannot apply to the pilot pension fund . Who cares ? well, it is illegal to work as a pilot for a french operator if you cannot participate to this fund .... Clever, isn t it ?
Steps to get a validation :
-Contact the Service Formation Aeronautique et Controle Technique, Mme Martine Corboliou
+33 1 58 09 45 08
-Asked to be emailed the application form , which is in french
-Fill it
-Return and wait ..... 3 months, at least
I have the application on my computer, PM me and I will mail it to those interested.
Honestly, France is one of the worst place for pilot employment today, I doubt you will find something here and not in UK.
I think 2000 french pilots are unemployed right now, and Unions will be very upset to see foreign pilot "stealing" french jobs.
Good luck anyway, and you will only waste time in the process....At least the french CAA doesn t charge for the validation process
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
Absolutely untrue, eh? So, Porco, you know that no French operator has ever included graduation from a French university as one of the requirements for employment, do you? No, I thought not.
However, the fact remains, as the rest of your post proves, that the DGAC refuses to comply with JAR-FCL 1.015. I'm not sure that I would describe it as 'clever', the words 'devious', 'underhand' and 'deceitful' would seem to fit the situation rather better.
As the puppet of the French aviation industry, the DGAC will doubtless continue to flout the JAA's requirements until EASA forces it into compliance.
However, the fact remains, as the rest of your post proves, that the DGAC refuses to comply with JAR-FCL 1.015. I'm not sure that I would describe it as 'clever', the words 'devious', 'underhand' and 'deceitful' would seem to fit the situation rather better.
As the puppet of the French aviation industry, the DGAC will doubtless continue to flout the JAA's requirements until EASA forces it into compliance.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: arbroath,angus,UK
Thanks Guys for all your inputs - suspicions confirmed I would say!. I think Christophe trained in the UK - he was the subject of the rumour that I heard - all sorts of trouble getting himself sorted out and he's a French National! Let's see what happen's, the move is still only in the very early stages anyway. Thanks to you all again for your time.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Normandy
Well guys
When I wrote "clever", it was meant to be ironic ... Okey ?
The DGAC is the worst administration to deal with, but I stick with my previous statements :
- You don't need any degree to apply to a french Airline (I think you are confusing with the Air France Ab initio system ... )
-You can technically fly in France with a CAA issued JAR licence, provided you receive the DGAC approval, and therefore apply to the pilot pension system, The CRPNAC : Caisse de Retraite du Personnel Navigant de l'Aviation Civile. I know it, because I have a CAA CPL/IR, I am working in France, and I am awaiting this DGAC approval.
-Maybe the french medical system doesn't comply with JAA requirement, but you can always renew your medical at a CAA/JAA approved GP ..... In Le Bourget, where I do it yearly.
In the end of the day, you receive a JAA stamped medical, and the DGAC can't refuse it.
I don't pretend I know better the story than others, I just give you my every day experience on the subject, do what you want with it, I just meant to help .... if you don't believe me , well, you can still look for a job elsewhere, As far as am concerned, I have one.
When I wrote "clever", it was meant to be ironic ... Okey ?
The DGAC is the worst administration to deal with, but I stick with my previous statements :
- You don't need any degree to apply to a french Airline (I think you are confusing with the Air France Ab initio system ... )
-You can technically fly in France with a CAA issued JAR licence, provided you receive the DGAC approval, and therefore apply to the pilot pension system, The CRPNAC : Caisse de Retraite du Personnel Navigant de l'Aviation Civile. I know it, because I have a CAA CPL/IR, I am working in France, and I am awaiting this DGAC approval.
-Maybe the french medical system doesn't comply with JAA requirement, but you can always renew your medical at a CAA/JAA approved GP ..... In Le Bourget, where I do it yearly.
In the end of the day, you receive a JAA stamped medical, and the DGAC can't refuse it.
I don't pretend I know better the story than others, I just give you my every day experience on the subject, do what you want with it, I just meant to help .... if you don't believe me , well, you can still look for a job elsewhere, As far as am concerned, I have one.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: uk
...Same problem appeared with a JAA PPL issued in the UK (I know, this is only a PPL), the CFI of the club where I wanted to fly said the licence was not valid to fly in France. We had to phone the DGAC to get everything sorted out and, eventually, we got the green light (with no formal approval though, no letter or whatever)..., the woman on the phone agreed that I was entitled to fly a F-registered aircraft.
It says on your licence "you may exercise licence privileges on aircraft registered in any Member State of the Joint Aviation Authorities". I don't know if it says the same thing on a CPL, but I suppose it does... So, legally, you are meant to be entitled to fly any JAA registered aircraft.
I really do not understand what the deal is with CPL's... Given that a UK-issued licence is JAA compliant, you should be able to fly/work in France or in Spain or in Italy....Working in another EU country should be open to any EU citizen....
Porco Rosso, why can't everybody apply to the pilot pension fund??? I don't really understand... Do you need a validation/approval from the DGAC or do you just need to apply to the pension scheme?
Thanks for shedding some light on this.
FN
It says on your licence "you may exercise licence privileges on aircraft registered in any Member State of the Joint Aviation Authorities". I don't know if it says the same thing on a CPL, but I suppose it does... So, legally, you are meant to be entitled to fly any JAA registered aircraft.
I really do not understand what the deal is with CPL's... Given that a UK-issued licence is JAA compliant, you should be able to fly/work in France or in Spain or in Italy....Working in another EU country should be open to any EU citizen....
Porco Rosso, why can't everybody apply to the pilot pension fund??? I don't really understand... Do you need a validation/approval from the DGAC or do you just need to apply to the pension scheme?
Thanks for shedding some light on this.
FN
Last edited by Fancy Navigator; 11th August 2004 at 21:52.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: India
CPL in france/ Requirements...???
Hi!
Could anyone help me with the details/ requirements/information to do CPL in France? Also, it would be nice if u cld tell me about good aviation schools there n their costs for training for a CPL.... Any links also would help!
Thanks a lot!
Could anyone help me with the details/ requirements/information to do CPL in France? Also, it would be nice if u cld tell me about good aviation schools there n their costs for training for a CPL.... Any links also would help!
Thanks a lot!
