UK ATPL conversion
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UK ATPL conversion
Hi All
I have a few questions relating to ATPL conversions... I'm currently a Flying Instructor in Sydney studying for my CASA Atpl's. Towards the end of this year, possibly early next year I will be travelling to the UK, for a holiday and to check out the possible ways to convert. It is to my understanding that in the UK, unless your Jet type rated then things are pretty difficult. However the minimums for Easy and Ryan seem quite low, perhaps because I'm used to high mins here with much competition. I also understand that it is very expensive.
Q1. Are there any training organisations that will do full time courses for ATPL?
Q2. If so, where would I find them and who should I talk to?
Q3. How many exams are there in the UK system?
and...
Q4. What sort of costs are we talking here? I have just read the thread on HSBC and there bank rolls to students, but it seems those figures are from ab-initio.
Any advice would be greatly apreciated. If somebody could provide links to the neccessary FTO's I would be forever in your favour.
Best Regards
FN
I have a few questions relating to ATPL conversions... I'm currently a Flying Instructor in Sydney studying for my CASA Atpl's. Towards the end of this year, possibly early next year I will be travelling to the UK, for a holiday and to check out the possible ways to convert. It is to my understanding that in the UK, unless your Jet type rated then things are pretty difficult. However the minimums for Easy and Ryan seem quite low, perhaps because I'm used to high mins here with much competition. I also understand that it is very expensive.
Q1. Are there any training organisations that will do full time courses for ATPL?
Q2. If so, where would I find them and who should I talk to?
Q3. How many exams are there in the UK system?
and...
Q4. What sort of costs are we talking here? I have just read the thread on HSBC and there bank rolls to students, but it seems those figures are from ab-initio.
Any advice would be greatly apreciated. If somebody could provide links to the neccessary FTO's I would be forever in your favour.
Best Regards
FN
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Hi mate
There are many trainig facilites in the UK who can convert you to a JAA ATPL. It is a long hard road, I believe you need to take all flight tests and all writtens. However check out........
www.caa.co.uk (look under "safety") that will give you all the info you need, or email them.
Good luck
Eff Oh
There are many trainig facilites in the UK who can convert you to a JAA ATPL. It is a long hard road, I believe you need to take all flight tests and all writtens. However check out........
www.caa.co.uk (look under "safety") that will give you all the info you need, or email them.
Good luck
Eff Oh
Join Date: May 2002
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I would recommend Bristol for the groundschool. I am currently doing module 1 with them and I have nothing but praise (along with half of pprune!)
http://www.bristol.gs
Speak to Alex
I would suggest getting in contact with a flying school. Two good ones local to me in the north of england are:-
http://www.leedsflyingschool.co.uk/
Speak to Dylan
and
http://www.multiflight.com/
Speak to Andy Todd CFI
The caa produce a list of all approved FTO's
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp
Have fun!
Dave
ps Oh, and there are 14 exams for the JAA ATPL
http://www.bristol.gs/course.htm
http://www.bristol.gs
Speak to Alex
I would suggest getting in contact with a flying school. Two good ones local to me in the north of england are:-
http://www.leedsflyingschool.co.uk/
Speak to Dylan
and
http://www.multiflight.com/
Speak to Andy Todd CFI
The caa produce a list of all approved FTO's
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp
Have fun!
Dave
ps Oh, and there are 14 exams for the JAA ATPL
http://www.bristol.gs/course.htm
Last edited by dmdrewitt; 5th Mar 2003 at 20:11.
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Thanks guys for the links... I got plenty of info from all sites.
All the FTO's look like great places to study. Now I just have to convince the bank its a good idea to lend me some money..
Cheers
FN
All the FTO's look like great places to study. Now I just have to convince the bank its a good idea to lend me some money..
Cheers
FN
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FN,
I'm a flying instructor in Perth and have already started my ATPL conversion.
First of all when on your holiday get your Class 1 med at Gatwick (have to do initial there). The JAA standards are higher than the Oz ones (especially for eyes). No point buyin texts if you cant get your medical.
I'm doing my JAA ATPL theory with Bristol. Its all distance learning except for 2 weeks of brushups just prior to exams. I've finished the first module and sat the exams in Feb. Passed all 8.
I'm moving permanently in June or July to finish off mod 2 exams then convert licences (probably with Tayflite in Scotland).
Get the Oz IR if you havnt already as the hours req'd for the JAA equivalent is cut significantly - 55 down to 15!
Also if you dont have 100hrs in a twin your gonna have to do the JAA ME piston endorsement.......
If you want anymore info send me a private msg or post here.
PL
I'm a flying instructor in Perth and have already started my ATPL conversion.
First of all when on your holiday get your Class 1 med at Gatwick (have to do initial there). The JAA standards are higher than the Oz ones (especially for eyes). No point buyin texts if you cant get your medical.
I'm doing my JAA ATPL theory with Bristol. Its all distance learning except for 2 weeks of brushups just prior to exams. I've finished the first module and sat the exams in Feb. Passed all 8.
I'm moving permanently in June or July to finish off mod 2 exams then convert licences (probably with Tayflite in Scotland).
Get the Oz IR if you havnt already as the hours req'd for the JAA equivalent is cut significantly - 55 down to 15!
Also if you dont have 100hrs in a twin your gonna have to do the JAA ME piston endorsement.......
If you want anymore info send me a private msg or post here.
PL
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Friction Nut,
Caveat Emptor!
Trust me, the job market is pretty rubbish for those with no turbine hours. The only people getting interviews at the moment are folk with 1000+ turbine already or those who've bought a 73 type rating. Sure, there are a few without that getting jobs but they are very thin on the ground.
Do the research very very carefully.
Caveat Emptor!
Trust me, the job market is pretty rubbish for those with no turbine hours. The only people getting interviews at the moment are folk with 1000+ turbine already or those who've bought a 73 type rating. Sure, there are a few without that getting jobs but they are very thin on the ground.
Do the research very very carefully.
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Thanks Redsnail
Yeah, thats pretty much what i thought. The 73 endorsment would be a damn fine investment though wouldnt it?? What are they charging for one of those nowadays?
How about piston jobs? What are the general requirments for those? Are there many operators in the UK? Thanks for the advice..
FN
Yeah, thats pretty much what i thought. The 73 endorsment would be a damn fine investment though wouldnt it?? What are they charging for one of those nowadays?
How about piston jobs? What are the general requirments for those? Are there many operators in the UK? Thanks for the advice..
FN
PPRuNe Handmaiden
A 737 rating is worth a min of 15K pounds. Don't do one in the states or Oz expecting a short cut. Since it won't have been done under "JAR" it won't be recognised because you don't have 500 hours on it and relevant experience yadda yadda yadda....
Funnily enough, there are some (ie not many) jobs for 2000 hour piston drivers, esp if you have some twin time. It's usually for the likes of Loganair driving their Islander out of the Shetlands. Not a bad job. Pays better than many FO positions on smallish turbines.
This may sound harsh. I wouldn't bother coming over here unless you have some turbine time. By all means, plan to do the stuff part time if you really want to. I know a few guys from Oz/NZ who don't have any turbine time and they are either instructing or still flying pistons... if they are working at all.
Funnily enough, there are some (ie not many) jobs for 2000 hour piston drivers, esp if you have some twin time. It's usually for the likes of Loganair driving their Islander out of the Shetlands. Not a bad job. Pays better than many FO positions on smallish turbines.
This may sound harsh. I wouldn't bother coming over here unless you have some turbine time. By all means, plan to do the stuff part time if you really want to. I know a few guys from Oz/NZ who don't have any turbine time and they are either instructing or still flying pistons... if they are working at all.
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hi F N.
As the licence you get will be JAA, not UK, ever thought of doing it in another JAA member country? several english courses around, eg. Spain, Germany (JAA from May), Czech Republic (so I have heard), and of course in the US. Unfortunately not here in Ireland.
If you do want to get a 73 rating, cheaper option by far would be CSA (national Czech carrier) for the classic or some place in Bremen/Germany, they charged €21000 for the classic and NG combined in February.
expect to pay €100 in schools in Eastern Europe for SEP training and €130 in the West. Don't know though how that compares to the UK.
hope this helps.
If you do want to get a 73 rating, cheaper option by far would be CSA (national Czech carrier) for the classic or some place in Bremen/Germany, they charged €21000 for the classic and NG combined in February.
expect to pay €100 in schools in Eastern Europe for SEP training and €130 in the West. Don't know though how that compares to the UK.
hope this helps.
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Other JAA countries
Thanks Irishpilot
If I were to go to another JAA country for 73 type rating, will easy and ryan still accept it. Or any of the other 73 operators in the UK. I heard that Easy are converting to Airbus, is this a rumour or fact.
FN
If I were to go to another JAA country for 73 type rating, will easy and ryan still accept it. Or any of the other 73 operators in the UK. I heard that Easy are converting to Airbus, is this a rumour or fact.
FN
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Foreign Licence Conversion to JAA
Below is a list of the conversion requirements as stated in the LASORS manual.
CPL
The holder of a current and valid CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA state may be issued with a JAR-FCL CPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.55(b) & (C) have been met. Applicants must:
· Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate.
· Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (ie ATPL(A) level) must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
· Undertake flying training as determined by the Head of Training of a FTO approved to conduct CPL(A) modular flying training courses, sufficient to obtain the pre-entry Form 170A (to include 5 hours on a complex aeroplane type if this requirement has not been previously satisfied) and pass the CPL(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 & 2 to JAR-FCL 1.170) with a CAA Flight Examiner.
· Qualify for the Issue of a UK Flight Radio Telephony Operators Licence (FRTOL)
IR
The holder of a current and valid Instrument Rating Aeroplane (IR(A)) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be issued with a JAR-FCL IR(A) providing the experience requirements as detailed in Section E1.2 have been met. Applicants must complete the following:
· Undertake IR theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider.
· Pass all JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at IR level. Applicants who have passed JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level are exempted from this requirement.
· Complete a minimum of 15 hour instrument flying instruction (of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT 1 or 10 hours in a FNPT 2 or flight simulator.
· Complete any additional IR training considered necessary by the FTO
· Pass the 170A flight test
· Pass the IR(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 &2 to JAR-FCL 1.210) with a CAA Flight Examiner
Training as required can mean anything dependant on the students ability. In my experience everyone coming to the UK for a conversion requires some form of re-training, be it just to familiarise themselves with airspace and RT or even to the full extent of virtually the whole IR course.
Upon adding the cost I have found full-time ATPL groundschool, CPL and IR conversion comes to approximately £11 / 12,000.00 sterling. This obviously depends on the school you choose and the amount of training you require.
CPL
The holder of a current and valid CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA state may be issued with a JAR-FCL CPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.55(b) & (C) have been met. Applicants must:
· Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate.
· Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (ie ATPL(A) level) must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
· Undertake flying training as determined by the Head of Training of a FTO approved to conduct CPL(A) modular flying training courses, sufficient to obtain the pre-entry Form 170A (to include 5 hours on a complex aeroplane type if this requirement has not been previously satisfied) and pass the CPL(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 & 2 to JAR-FCL 1.170) with a CAA Flight Examiner.
· Qualify for the Issue of a UK Flight Radio Telephony Operators Licence (FRTOL)
IR
The holder of a current and valid Instrument Rating Aeroplane (IR(A)) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be issued with a JAR-FCL IR(A) providing the experience requirements as detailed in Section E1.2 have been met. Applicants must complete the following:
· Undertake IR theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider.
· Pass all JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at IR level. Applicants who have passed JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level are exempted from this requirement.
· Complete a minimum of 15 hour instrument flying instruction (of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT 1 or 10 hours in a FNPT 2 or flight simulator.
· Complete any additional IR training considered necessary by the FTO
· Pass the 170A flight test
· Pass the IR(A) skill test (in accordance with Appendices 1 &2 to JAR-FCL 1.210) with a CAA Flight Examiner
Training as required can mean anything dependant on the students ability. In my experience everyone coming to the UK for a conversion requires some form of re-training, be it just to familiarise themselves with airspace and RT or even to the full extent of virtually the whole IR course.
Upon adding the cost I have found full-time ATPL groundschool, CPL and IR conversion comes to approximately £11 / 12,000.00 sterling. This obviously depends on the school you choose and the amount of training you require.
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Hi FN,
Easy has 120 A319 on order.
Ryanair is an Irish company. Why should they prefer a Type Rating conducted with a British TRTO? If you check their website, they suggest getting your rating either in The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden or the UK, whereas the UK course is the only one without definate starting date, also it is the only of the 4 schools which does the course on the aircraft that Ryanair is phasing out (-200).
Many JAR TRTOs do the Base Training outside their own country, some of them even in Canada, the US, Slovakia, Malta...
Ryanair is an Irish company. Why should they prefer a Type Rating conducted with a British TRTO? If you check their website, they suggest getting your rating either in The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden or the UK, whereas the UK course is the only one without definate starting date, also it is the only of the 4 schools which does the course on the aircraft that Ryanair is phasing out (-200).
Many JAR TRTOs do the Base Training outside their own country, some of them even in Canada, the US, Slovakia, Malta...
