HELP!(with ATPL Modular Training)
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HELP!(with ATPL Modular Training)
Brand new member of PPRUNE, innvaluable resource.
UK PPL nearly IMC and night low hours(70). Want to start modular distance study for ATPL whilst hour building in UK in worst weather I can safely fly in. Limited it down to OXFORD or BRISTOL GS/MULTI-FLIGHT. Wish to complete all Modules with same school for continuity.
Problem - every school I visit (and thats a fair few) looks pretty good to me and just as I am about to sign up I read a bad thread with someone slagging them off! Particularly OXFORD who to me in my innocence looked like a really good set up.
Why are there so many bitter students? Nothing good ever came easy!
Conclusion- I would really like to hear from some people who can give me some positive input about either school so I can make a sensible choice.
UK PPL nearly IMC and night low hours(70). Want to start modular distance study for ATPL whilst hour building in UK in worst weather I can safely fly in. Limited it down to OXFORD or BRISTOL GS/MULTI-FLIGHT. Wish to complete all Modules with same school for continuity.
Problem - every school I visit (and thats a fair few) looks pretty good to me and just as I am about to sign up I read a bad thread with someone slagging them off! Particularly OXFORD who to me in my innocence looked like a really good set up.
Why are there so many bitter students? Nothing good ever came easy!
Conclusion- I would really like to hear from some people who can give me some positive input about either school so I can make a sensible choice.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I have no personal knowledge of Oxford, so what I'm about to say is based on what I've read here, and from talking to others. But, IM(V)HO, they are the best school there is for residential theory courses and integrated courses, and the second best for distance learning courses. The reason some people may feel bitter - and I believe it is a very small minority of people - is because many airlines who (used to) sponsor pilots put them through Oxford's integrated course. As a result, there is a feeling that Oxford students "have jobs lined up for them". Not only is this completely untrue, it's also wouldn't be a valid reason to resent a school even if it were true.
The best school for distance learning, IMHO, is Bristol. That's who I'm doing my ATPLs with, and I haven't got any complaints about them at all. The notes are superb, the instructors are brilliant. Of course, just because they were the best for my personal circumstances, doesn't mean they'll be the best for you. But I'm certain that if you choose Bristol you'll have no complaints.
It sounds like you've done your research and picked out some of the best schools around. They're going to be hard to choose between!
Good luck!
FFF
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The best school for distance learning, IMHO, is Bristol. That's who I'm doing my ATPLs with, and I haven't got any complaints about them at all. The notes are superb, the instructors are brilliant. Of course, just because they were the best for my personal circumstances, doesn't mean they'll be the best for you. But I'm certain that if you choose Bristol you'll have no complaints.
It sounds like you've done your research and picked out some of the best schools around. They're going to be hard to choose between!
Good luck!
FFF
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I have recently completed the Theory exams for the JAR ATPL and was lucky enough to have access to both the Oxford and Bristol JAR feedback questions, although i completed the ground schooling at Oxford. (Don't ask how!)
I must say that the questions were very similar although Oxford seemed to have a few more whilst Bristol had helpful explanatory notes to help in deciphering how they arrived at the given answer. (At Oxford it was a case of ask the subject specialist, also helpful).
Whichever you choose it will be a lot of hard graft but it is most satisfying when you are finally done & dusted, have a grasp of so many new topics & can really begin to learn more about flying.
Safe Landings,
Nev1.
I must say that the questions were very similar although Oxford seemed to have a few more whilst Bristol had helpful explanatory notes to help in deciphering how they arrived at the given answer. (At Oxford it was a case of ask the subject specialist, also helpful).
Whichever you choose it will be a lot of hard graft but it is most satisfying when you are finally done & dusted, have a grasp of so many new topics & can really begin to learn more about flying.
Safe Landings,
Nev1.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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No complaints with Bristol so far.......
Seen OATS, BAE, 4 Forces and obviously Bristol notes and Bristols shine out by far in their layout, clarity and "tell ya what ya need to knowness"!
VFE.
Seen OATS, BAE, 4 Forces and obviously Bristol notes and Bristols shine out by far in their layout, clarity and "tell ya what ya need to knowness"!
VFE.
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Hi there,
Just curious as to what makes a ground school better than another? Surely the notes are pretty much the same as anywhere else and the multimedia stuff is usually a bit of a gimmick (never learnt much from multimedia stuff, very time inefficient IMHO). Seems to me a modular ground school entails reading a tonne of stuff at home on your own.
But, IM(V)HO, they are the best school there is for residential theory courses and integrated courses, and the second best for distance learning courses.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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HWD,
Two very important points. First of all, what makes a good school will vary from person to person - I can only comment on what I looked for in a school, others will have different priorities. Secondly, the things I'd look for in a residential course are not the same as the things I'd look for in a distance learning course.
Having said that, here's my personal opinion:
For distance learning, the single most important thing is the quality of the notes. No, all schools' notes are not the same. Do the notes use diagrams to explain tricky points? Is the language used in the notes clear and concise? Do the notes assume some prior knowledge which you don't have? (Or, conversely, do they spent ages labouring over things you already know?) Is there space along the margins for you to add your own comments? Is the paper of sufficient quality to be able to withstand you leafing through it time after time? The list is endless.
Apart from the notes, the responsiveness of the school is important. You are not on your own for distance learning - you have a school full of instructors sitting there waiting to help you if you need it. At least, that's what you would hope for... If a school is going to take two weeks to reply to a query, I'd look somewhere else.
And, although I didn't realise it at the time, the standard of the brush-up course is vital. Not much way of knowing how good this is, though, except by speaking to others. (I wonder if schools would allow you to sit in on a brush-up course for an hour or two? I've got no idea - it's not something I thought of until just now!)
That's for distance learning. For residential, the priorities would be different. Since most of your learning will be done in the classroom, the standard of the instructors, and the instruction given, is the most important thing. As with the brush-ups, this is very hard to tell in advance except by reputation. The quality of the notes is far less important than for distance learning, and the responsiveness is pretty much irrelevant for a residential course.
Then there are factors which are common to all types of course. For some people, the cost of the course will be an overriding factor - either to be considered alongside other factors, or to the exclusion of all other factors. Other people might be concerned with the length of the course. LGU seem to be the most innovative of the distance learning schools, with a brush-up course which is half the length of all the other schools (which was enough for me to seriously consider them when I wouldn't have done otherwise). I believe that since then they've added an alternative course which is split into 3 modules instead of two (not certain of that though) - this might suit some people.
Multimedia "gimmicks" will depend on the individual. I'm with you - I can't learn from a computer screen. But although I've barely looked at the notes on the Bristol CD, I've made lots of use of the computerised progress tests. Others will have different ways of studying, and might find the computerised notes more useful than the tests - it all comes down to the individual.
Hope that answers your questions!
FFF
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Two very important points. First of all, what makes a good school will vary from person to person - I can only comment on what I looked for in a school, others will have different priorities. Secondly, the things I'd look for in a residential course are not the same as the things I'd look for in a distance learning course.
Having said that, here's my personal opinion:
For distance learning, the single most important thing is the quality of the notes. No, all schools' notes are not the same. Do the notes use diagrams to explain tricky points? Is the language used in the notes clear and concise? Do the notes assume some prior knowledge which you don't have? (Or, conversely, do they spent ages labouring over things you already know?) Is there space along the margins for you to add your own comments? Is the paper of sufficient quality to be able to withstand you leafing through it time after time? The list is endless.
Apart from the notes, the responsiveness of the school is important. You are not on your own for distance learning - you have a school full of instructors sitting there waiting to help you if you need it. At least, that's what you would hope for... If a school is going to take two weeks to reply to a query, I'd look somewhere else.
And, although I didn't realise it at the time, the standard of the brush-up course is vital. Not much way of knowing how good this is, though, except by speaking to others. (I wonder if schools would allow you to sit in on a brush-up course for an hour or two? I've got no idea - it's not something I thought of until just now!)
That's for distance learning. For residential, the priorities would be different. Since most of your learning will be done in the classroom, the standard of the instructors, and the instruction given, is the most important thing. As with the brush-ups, this is very hard to tell in advance except by reputation. The quality of the notes is far less important than for distance learning, and the responsiveness is pretty much irrelevant for a residential course.
Then there are factors which are common to all types of course. For some people, the cost of the course will be an overriding factor - either to be considered alongside other factors, or to the exclusion of all other factors. Other people might be concerned with the length of the course. LGU seem to be the most innovative of the distance learning schools, with a brush-up course which is half the length of all the other schools (which was enough for me to seriously consider them when I wouldn't have done otherwise). I believe that since then they've added an alternative course which is split into 3 modules instead of two (not certain of that though) - this might suit some people.
Multimedia "gimmicks" will depend on the individual. I'm with you - I can't learn from a computer screen. But although I've barely looked at the notes on the Bristol CD, I've made lots of use of the computerised progress tests. Others will have different ways of studying, and might find the computerised notes more useful than the tests - it all comes down to the individual.
Hope that answers your questions!
FFF
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FFF,
I appreciate your comprehensive response. I just looked at http://www.lgu.ac.uk/ca/courses/jar_fcl.html and I agree, three modules would seem to be better than two. They have just moved near to the top of my list. Thanks for the tip
Insofar as distance learning is concerned, my experience with OU made getting sufficient help tricky. These problems stemmed from the fact that I usually got stuck on really hard stuff for which a description of the problem and the solution was hard to articulate for both parties. As long as I can pick my notes up, jump in the car and get some 1-to-1 help then I imagine that to be the case in most distance courses.
Cheers!
I appreciate your comprehensive response. I just looked at http://www.lgu.ac.uk/ca/courses/jar_fcl.html and I agree, three modules would seem to be better than two. They have just moved near to the top of my list. Thanks for the tip
Insofar as distance learning is concerned, my experience with OU made getting sufficient help tricky. These problems stemmed from the fact that I usually got stuck on really hard stuff for which a description of the problem and the solution was hard to articulate for both parties. As long as I can pick my notes up, jump in the car and get some 1-to-1 help then I imagine that to be the case in most distance courses.
Cheers!
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I would also suggest taking a look at ATA in Coventry, I have yet to see a bad word about them on Pprune and any past students I met were more then happy to recommend them, the same I am afraid cannot be said for LGU from people I have met but it really dont matter that much, the school aint going drag you through! you are and your determination. I was also worried about the continuinty of my training as I am also modular but I believe I chose an excellent FTO to begin my training and I am now pretty much at the same level of experience of you PPL/IMC/NR <100hrs,
I go to ATA in Feb whom after visiting all the others I believed to suit me most and then after I have about three options narrowed down for CPL/IR. As for hr build there is a couple of clubs and FTO right beside ATA which offer competitive rates on rental to keep your hand in it while studying. Good luck whatever
Rgds FRIDAY
I go to ATA in Feb whom after visiting all the others I believed to suit me most and then after I have about three options narrowed down for CPL/IR. As for hr build there is a couple of clubs and FTO right beside ATA which offer competitive rates on rental to keep your hand in it while studying. Good luck whatever
Rgds FRIDAY
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Friday said:
Personally, I would suggest taking a look at everyone. Literally. Go onto the CAA website and get a list of all of the schools which do the ATPL course, and write to every singel one of them. That's what I did. From their responses, I narrowed it down to three. And I then looked into each of the three in more detail and asked lots of questions to make my final choice.
FFF
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I would also suggest taking a look at ATA in Coventry
FFF
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Very True flying for fun
I am only suggesting this as I too investigated practically every groundschool FTO in person and after considerable thought and investigation I chose ATA. As seen before on this website it really will depend on which suits your own personal situation, call them all and visit them all and it should become evident which suits you best. I certainly would not suggest making your final decision until further investigation but I did feel you should at least include them in your selection as you never mentioned them in your choices.
I am only suggesting this as I too investigated practically every groundschool FTO in person and after considerable thought and investigation I chose ATA. As seen before on this website it really will depend on which suits your own personal situation, call them all and visit them all and it should become evident which suits you best. I certainly would not suggest making your final decision until further investigation but I did feel you should at least include them in your selection as you never mentioned them in your choices.
Jet Blast Rat
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Caveat: Although I am trying to be impartial in advice I do work for an FTO (BCFT).
The most important thing to do in choosing a school is to visit all those you think are possible, and judge how the "feel" is. Different people look for different things, and most students who post have attended only one groundschool, so cannot really compare them. Thus Oxford look good because they have a larger number of students, some of whom post here. The majority of feedback is positive for all the schools that have stayed in business.
A visit will also give you some idea of how organised the admin is (as FFF says this is important, especially for distance learning). You get to meet the instructors, and get a look at notes etc (there are bad notes out there, though not those used by your shortlist of schools).
We don't have approval for distance learning yet so I can be impartial in recommendation, and I agree with FFF that Bristol are better than Oxford (I have helped students of both schools with private tuition), although I have nothing against the latter's DL course.
The most important thing to do in choosing a school is to visit all those you think are possible, and judge how the "feel" is. Different people look for different things, and most students who post have attended only one groundschool, so cannot really compare them. Thus Oxford look good because they have a larger number of students, some of whom post here. The majority of feedback is positive for all the schools that have stayed in business.
A visit will also give you some idea of how organised the admin is (as FFF says this is important, especially for distance learning). You get to meet the instructors, and get a look at notes etc (there are bad notes out there, though not those used by your shortlist of schools).
We don't have approval for distance learning yet so I can be impartial in recommendation, and I agree with FFF that Bristol are better than Oxford (I have helped students of both schools with private tuition), although I have nothing against the latter's DL course.
